Do you believe that humans are evil?
- Thread starter SLNT_FIR
- Start date
The only way that we could not be evil, would be to be robots! We had to have the choice, not multiple choices, not what the enemy would like us to think. Good/evil, Spiritual realm, only two choices! We can kick, scream, and rebel against it...that simply makes us act like our mortal enemy of this world.
Hiding? He is not hiding. When you see love and goodness, when you look around and see the beauty of the world...there He is! You would have to be emotionally dead not to feel love, even from this computer screen, from many of His precious saints...He is not hiding...He lives within each of us who proclaim that Jesus is LORD!
I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation. Psalm 40:10
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Exekiel 36:26
Hiding? He is not hiding. When you see love and goodness, when you look around and see the beauty of the world...there He is! You would have to be emotionally dead not to feel love, even from this computer screen, from many of His precious saints...He is not hiding...He lives within each of us who proclaim that Jesus is LORD!
I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation. Psalm 40:10
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Exekiel 36:26
Jim
New Member
If humans were inherently evil, why do non-believers engage in acts of charity and self-sacrifice like blood donation etc.?
I think people commit evil acts because they feel inclined either to protect what they are used to/comfortable with (using violence and cheating to preserve a social norm) or to obtain something they want/need. A bit simplified, but there it is.
Very few people commit evil because they want to be evil. They do stuff for their own reason. Something which is evil to you might be a wonderful thing to someone else.
To add a point, if people desired only evil, I think we would have wiped ourselves out long ago.
I think people commit evil acts because they feel inclined either to protect what they are used to/comfortable with (using violence and cheating to preserve a social norm) or to obtain something they want/need. A bit simplified, but there it is.
Very few people commit evil because they want to be evil. They do stuff for their own reason. Something which is evil to you might be a wonderful thing to someone else.
To add a point, if people desired only evil, I think we would have wiped ourselves out long ago.
Let us compare ourselves to Scripture. I am a Christian and with the Holy Spirit as my guide, strive to live like Jesus. Nevertheless, I fail! Using the Bible as my mirror...I am evil.
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. II Corinthians 10:12
I love Paul and his honesty. I do believe the man was feeling torn...and possibly Home sick
He explains the issue with excellence!
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. II Corinthians 10:12
I love Paul and his honesty. I do believe the man was feeling torn...and possibly Home sick
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
PapaToad
Active Member
I like Marcy's Listing :
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10
If we were so Non sinful, Why does a child need to be taught patience. To be taught honesty. Why do some people have to be told its wrong to betray a love one ot anyone for that matter.
I do not find myself an evil man. But the fact remains I do sinful things from time to time.
Are babies Evil no, Thru the grace of God, we will be held accountable for what we know and do. Even Christ said, what goes into a man does not make him sinfull. IT IS what comes out.
What are we sowing??
By being human a child is born with the sinful abilites we have inherited from Adam. What he/she does with her learning determines his/her walk with God.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10
If we were so Non sinful, Why does a child need to be taught patience. To be taught honesty. Why do some people have to be told its wrong to betray a love one ot anyone for that matter.
I do not find myself an evil man. But the fact remains I do sinful things from time to time.
Are babies Evil no, Thru the grace of God, we will be held accountable for what we know and do. Even Christ said, what goes into a man does not make him sinfull. IT IS what comes out.
What are we sowing??
By being human a child is born with the sinful abilites we have inherited from Adam. What he/she does with her learning determines his/her walk with God.
Jim
New Member
[b said:
Because they don't know any better. I never said we wre born angels and perfect. If we were born evil and filthy and cruel, how on Earth would civilisations without Christianity, or even the Judeo-Christian God have flourished? People do bad things for many reason, but rarely because they are evil.
To recall something Marcy said earlier, about her being shocked at how a baby tricked her into thinking something was wrong to get her attention, I believe that is the child's way of getting attention, considering it is young, knows not the mannerisms and social expectations it is to be taught. How do you, for example, expect to speak english if you are never taught?
Just because we have a natural bent towards things that may be wrong doesn't make us wicked. People will always commit sins big and small for whatever reason. People don't do it because they are evil. They do it fro self-protection, to protect a pal from trouble, to protect a social norm they are comfortable with. Or perhaps even to gain something they never had.
SLNT_FIR
New Member
to address your why do ppl do good things? it's because we want to. whether we are condemned or praised or ignored. we WANT to period. some people do it because they trust in God's grace AND works. that's wrong. it's your joy in the lord (do not confuse joy with hapiness) that you want to do good.
my sig is the only one with a face in it!!!
my sig is the only one with a face in it!!!
Dark Virtue
New Member
Do I believe there are evil men in the world?[b said:
Yes.
Do I believe that man is intrinsicly evil?
No.
Man isn't born evil. Little babies aren't evil. They are needy little creatures.
How can you possibly look into the face of a newborn baby and see
but evil and corruption?
God IS in hiding. Why does He need to hide behind feelings or pillars of smoke and fire? Why is it so hard to show us the being we are meant to follow? What is WRONG with that?
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
Like the perfect, angellic being known as Satan?
Dark Virtue
New Member
So people WANT to do Good?[b said:Quote[/b] (SilentAssassin @ Nov. 08 2004,5:07)]to address your why do ppl do good things? it's because we want to. whether we are condemned or praised or ignored. we WANT to period. some people do it because they trust in God's grace AND works. that's wrong. it's your joy in the lord (do not confuse joy with hapiness) that you want to do good.
my sig is the only one with a face in it!!!
So why can't you say people WANT to do Evil instead of saying man is INHERANTLY Evil?
SLNT_FIR
New Member
that's called temptation. we only sin when we let it. that is only after we accepted christ. i know that by experiance. if i resist it, or take the early bird parachute out (the 1 Cor 14:20-22). that is the only way out. of course early bird parachute is the best. (completely avoiding it). and if man WANTS to do Evil ALL the time. (repeatedly) doesn't that MAKE him inherantly evil?
i know that isn't very clear...
calling marcylene on radio...
*Need Backup!*
lol.
i know that isn't very clear...
calling marcylene on radio...
*Need Backup!*
lol.
Dark Virtue
New Member
SA, sooner or later you will have to learn to stand on your own two feet.
Hmm. Well let's look at this, shall we? I don't know about you, but personally, I WANT to do GOOD ALL the time, repeatedly. According to your logic, I guess that makes me inherantly GOOD, huh?
Now, I know I am not alone in that mindset. And I'm willing to bet that the MAJORITY of Man also shares that mindset. Therefore, according to your logic, MAN is inherantly GOOD. You just proved yourself wrong.
[b said:
Hmm. Well let's look at this, shall we? I don't know about you, but personally, I WANT to do GOOD ALL the time, repeatedly. According to your logic, I guess that makes me inherantly GOOD, huh?
Now, I know I am not alone in that mindset. And I'm willing to bet that the MAJORITY of Man also shares that mindset. Therefore, according to your logic, MAN is inherantly GOOD. You just proved yourself wrong.
Weazel
New Member
Because no one in their right mind would openly badmouth themselves and would rather see that which is good instead of the bad.[b said:
The only thing you have shown is that man wants to believe they are inherantly good, and most likely, by our corrupted standards and imperfect perceptions, they might be accurate. But that would be like saying the Cincinnati Bengals had an incredible season last year.
Because it'd probably kill you, that's what's wrong with it[b said:
As I understand (I would look up the verses and the exact facts, but I don't have time at this moment so I may be wrong/inaccurate at some parts. Maybe someone else can help?) the covenent with God was broken when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Good and Evil. Because of that, we no longer had the relationship with God we once did. In the Old Testament, we could pay for our sins by sacrificing our best animals. Also, for a way to allow us to see God, a tabernacle was built in which someone may enter - but ONLY if they are completely right with God. If ANY sin is found, that person is struck dead on the spot. In tradition, only one man is allowed to enter and only once a year, and not without precautions too. That one man must make sure he is completely clean of any sin and must have a rope tied around him in case he is struck dead, so that he may be pulled out safely.
So God realizes the plight of man and decides to do something to help - to send his only Son to bridge this gap between man and God. That way we CAN speak with God and CAN be in His presence, without having to be perfect. Yet we still can't SEE his true form, because it will still kill us.
Jim
New Member
[b said:
Many people are open to self criticism. Just because they don't like being criticised doesn't mean they can't and won't. Lot's of people do really good things, but get upset at doing bad things, an example being when you feel pride at doing something good and being upset when you do something bad.
[b said:
What is 'our corrupted standards and imperfect perceptions?' Most people view aid workers and blood donors and organ donors with reverance and praise due to their courage and self-sacrifice. Where is the corruption in this standard?
Not everyone wants to believe they are good. They try to be good. Big difference. There a good many instances in the OT where God shows human traits, such as regret for creating us, admits he is jealous and punishes beyond reason such as punishing children for the sins of their forefathers etc. Most people agree these are traits of a human with emotions, not a paradigm being and model of perfection. Yet compared to this entity, we are filthy, corrupt and worthless. A very depressing and self-destructive attitude.
PapaToad
Active Member
Awesome agruement. Oh, I like it.[b said:
I think you are wrong of course. This is my humble opionin. I think the human creature will sink to unspeakable depths given the right cirumstances. But given the best they do not all do the "good " thing whatever that might be.
But everyone is different. The have been many a "good" man in the eyes of the world. And I do not know how God has juded them. But I do know I am not to pass judement and be the best person God has called me to be
God Bless you all...everyone!
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:Quote[/b] (Weazel @ Nov. 08 2004,9:45)]Because no one in their right mind would openly badmouth themselves and would rather see that which is good instead of the bad.[b said:
The only thing you have shown is that man wants to believe they are inherantly good, and most likely, by our corrupted standards and imperfect perceptions, they might be accurate. But that would be like saying the Cincinnati Bengals had an incredible season last year.
Because it'd probably kill you, that's what's wrong with it[b said:
As I understand (I would look up the verses and the exact facts, but I don't have time at this moment so I may be wrong/inaccurate at some parts. Maybe someone else can help?) the covenent with God was broken when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Good and Evil. Because of that, we no longer had the relationship with God we once did. In the Old Testament, we could pay for our sins by sacrificing our best animals. Also, for a way to allow us to see God, a tabernacle was built in which someone may enter - but ONLY if they are completely right with God. If ANY sin is found, that person is struck dead on the spot. In tradition, only one man is allowed to enter and only once a year, and not without precautions too. That one man must make sure he is completely clean of any sin and must have a rope tied around him in case he is struck dead, so that he may be pulled out safely.
So God realizes the plight of man and decides to do something to help - to send his only Son to bridge this gap between man and God. That way we CAN speak with God and CAN be in His presence, without having to be perfect. Yet we still can't SEE his true form, because it will still kill us.
[b said:
I never said Man was perfect. The beauty of Man is that we STRIVE for perfection.
I was merely refuting SA's assertation that Man WANTS to be EVIL.
[b said:
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, SURELY He could devise some way to physically instruct His creation. Doing so would alleviate ALL misunderstandings.
[b said:
The plight of man? Wasn't it God that put man IN that plight to begin with?
Dark Virtue
New Member
I wish you would address the LOGICAL part of your argument.[b said:Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Nov. 09 2004,9:49)]Awesome agruement. Oh, I like it.[b said:
I think you are wrong of course. This is my humble opionin. I think the human creature will sink to unspeakable depths given the right cirumstances. But given the best they do not all do the "good " thing whatever that might be.
But everyone is different. The have been many a "good" man in the eyes of the world. And I do not know how God has juded them. But I do know I am not to pass judement and be the best person God has called me to be
God Bless you all...everyone!
You may disagree with me all you want, but you need to back up that disagreement with logical assertations. You have not done so.
SLNT_FIR
New Member
ooooooooooooh.... man doesn't WANT to be evil in his own mind. but he is evil according to God's standards. and that's all that matters. let's say you have a judge. and you are accused of murder. if you KNOW you aren't guilty, that's not gonna change anything. don't go any further with the court room scenario, the rest of it won't work.
Dark Virtue
New Member
LOL, you can't create analogies and then tell others not to mess with it. Sheesh!
Anyway, you said man doesn't WANT to be evil in his own mind, but that contradicts what you said earlier, remember?
Anyway, you said man doesn't WANT to be evil in his own mind, but that contradicts what you said earlier, remember?
[b said:
Weazel
New Member
I never said Man was perfect. The beauty of Man is that we STRIVE for perfection.
I was merely refuting SA's assertation that Man WANTS to be EVIL.[/quote]
You did say humans want to be good all the time, and that most people think that way. I just don't see it. I know I lie, cheat, covet, and do commit whatever other sins you want to throw at me far too often to ever be considered "good".
But seeing how homosexuality, premarital sex, profanity, and pornography among other things are all being accepted into our culture, it's not hard to see why people think humans are "good".
I was merely refuting SA's assertation that Man WANTS to be EVIL.[/quote]
You did say humans want to be good all the time, and that most people think that way. I just don't see it. I know I lie, cheat, covet, and do commit whatever other sins you want to throw at me far too often to ever be considered "good".
But seeing how homosexuality, premarital sex, profanity, and pornography among other things are all being accepted into our culture, it's not hard to see why people think humans are "good".
I agree, surely he would. And that he did. It is by the Serpent's deception that it all happened. Did not God warn them that they would die from eating from the tree? And didn't Satan trick them by saying they wouldn't die? The message was loud and clear. Man just chose the wrong one.[b said:
No, man put himself into that plight. Adam and Eve were told the consequences and still disobeyed. They recieved their just punishment.[b said: