Dear DV,

Arkanjel said:
Ok, you need to clear something up here. You have stated before that you are a weak atheist, as opposed to a strong atheist.
The definition of atheist is :
one who believes that there is no deity
There has to be some black and white here and no gray. You either believe there is or believe there isnt a higher power. There are no such things as strong or weak believers, although some may say otherwise. You either do or dont believe that Jesus died for your sins. There are people who are strong in there faith and others weak, but both still believe that Christ is there saviour. Since you have been around these boards for as long as you have we have had many discussions some agreements, some disagreements. You like to call poeple out on thier beliefs, so im gonna call you out on yours. Which is it DV? Do you believe 100% that there is no God, or 100% that there is a God? As for the "Holier than thou" crowd, that same thing goes for atheists BIG time. That is why the ACLU is either loved or hated. I have had discussions with atheist's about there beliefs only to have them laugh in my face! I have never seen a christian do that to anyone else, not to say its not happened, but I would have to say that the shoe fits much better on the atheists foot. You have been seeking answers to many questions, or perhaps you havent and have just wanted to get inside the head of a believer. Either way you have been presented with many facets of the Truth. The Bible is the only self authenticating scripture. God made it that way for a reason so it would stand the test of time and be relevant for ALL generations. No other religion can claim forknowledge of future events with 100% certainty, that is why Jesus gave us prophecy. Sure Nostradamus sounds kinda close, but is open to WIDE interpretation. Im know you will say the same about the Bible, but all of the prophecies have been 100% accurate. Seek and you shall find, we have been told. God is not that hard to find, but you have to WANT to find him. Sure it can be nice to go through life with no higher power to answer too for your transgressions, but that is not the way things are. Thankfully we have a God who is willing to forgive our screw-ups and put them behind us to give us a fresh start.
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I think you're splitting hairs based on an incorrect foundation. Did you see the true Christian thread? How many pages did we go through just trying to come up with the term Christian? I know you pulled your definition of atheism from the dictionary, but it doesn't quite work. Just like many disagreed with my attempts to define Christian.

You defined atheist as one who disbelieves that there is no deity. That, specifically, refers to a strong atheist. I don't agree with strong atheism for the same reason I don't agree with theism: there is no way to prove your point. Weak atheism, on the other hand, is a LACK of belief in a deity. I had a quote in my sig a while back that said, "If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color". I think that sums it up nicely.

Do I believe the God of the Bible exists? The simply answer is no. Do I actively disbelieve God's existence? No. What I have is a LACK of evidence, reason, proof and evidence to support God's existence.

As for the rest of your post, I don't believe the Bible, or any document for that matter, can be "self authenticating". That basic argument says that the Bible is true because it says it's true. That's not self authenticating, that's a logical fallacy, specifically petitio principii or begging the question which is similar to circulus in demonstrando.

I don't believe I stated that atheists couldn't have a "holier than thou" attitude. The majority of those that do are strong atheists, which is why I asked about that in a previous post. I'm glad you haven't had to deal with sanctimonius Christians. I, however, as a nonChristian, have. I've even had a Christian comment on how they would dance on my grave when I was dead because I wouldn't convert. Nice!

Seek and ye shall find, God isn't that hard to find. Did you forget that I was a Christian? Many atheists were once Christians, I am constantly amazed at how often people overlook that point. Like it's an incomprehensible impossibility that anyone could ever turn their back on Christianity. Sorry, but it happens every day. I sought and found nothing, nobody. I did so earnestly and yet did not find God. All who seek find, but not necessarily what you THINK you'll find.

I leave you with the following quote...
Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat.
Metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there.
Theology is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there and shouting “I found it!”
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Just because one doesn't see, experience, feel, or be able to explain something doesnt mean it isn't there.
 
Azzie said:
Just because one doesn't see, experience, feel, or be able to explain something doesnt mean it isn't there.
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Very true!

But I find it intellectually dishonest to believe in something without reason or evidence.
 
Arkanjel said:
That is a pretty funny quote DV, who is the person who said it?
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Strange sense of humor you have.

It's a philosophical reworking of a quote by Robert A. Heinlein, "Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything."
 
I do so love it when you do that!!! lol Hey, you got me started by staying on us for Scripture reference, you did indeed:) Now, if I could just get you to spout them off by and from the heart!!
 
Oh, and by the way. There has been an awful lot of talk on Scripture being in context, as of late. Would you like me to start giving chapters or Books at a time?:eek: ;) :D :) :p :rolleyes:
 
Unseeing, eh? Look at the pot calling the kettle black. :P

My dear Watson, "Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
 
Arkanjel, maybe you'll appreciate this definition of Atheist:

An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now.
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~Madalyn Murray (later O'Hair), preamble to Murray v. Curlett, 27 April 1961
 
And yet MMO was one of the most bitter, hateful people in the world, according to almost everyone she worked with. I would think that of all people to quote about virtuous atheists, she would be at the bottom of the list. That's really much like quoting Jimmy Swaggart about chastity, or Jim Jones about poison control.
 
Dark Virtue said:
While there may be a wide range of Christians as members, there isn't a wide range of Christians actively represented in the Religious Discussion forum.

Catholics make up the largest percentage of Christians, yet I don't know of an active poster in this forum.
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i guess my point was that we have many well-rounded christians here :o but also we use to have a very very active cathlic guy however he was banned when he made the topic: "All Prots are going to hell" or something of the like and it was actually a decently long essay, but thats beside the point.
 
Catholics make up the largest percentage of Christians, yet I don't know of an active poster in this forum.
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I find it weird that catholics make up the largest percentage of christians, since I remember a toj member telling another tojmember that if he wants to be a true christian he should cut ties with the catholic church. I thought most christians on here don't think catholics are christians.
 
Its not DV's fault he was close to believing in miracles, but now that the Astros's are out of the world series there's no chance. He must be very depressed.
 
Gandhi said:
Its not DV's fault he was close to believing in miracles, but now that the Astros's are out of the world series there's no chance. He must be very depressed.
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Alas, I think you are correct. He has gone completely mad!!!
 
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