Kidan
Moderator
you know I see hear a lot of people whining about Halloween because of it's Pagan roots. but what's about Christmas?
Should Christian's celebrate Christmas?
Should Christian's celebrate Christmas?
Christmas
- Thread starter Kidan
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
i think you should celebrate the birth of Jesus each and every day of the year.
This is an acceptable thing. amen
You may go and give gifts to your worst enemy in His name. amen
i am nothing0 and can eat candy i and my children went to gather on Oct.31st night.
The LORD made the candy, the gods some celebrate are false.
i would that all christians give out of their doors that same night more and better candy and at the same time offer a Spiritual motif complete with saying to all whom receive: JESUS IS THE LORD. AMEN
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
This is an acceptable thing. amen
You may go and give gifts to your worst enemy in His name. amen
i am nothing0 and can eat candy i and my children went to gather on Oct.31st night.
The LORD made the candy, the gods some celebrate are false.
i would that all christians give out of their doors that same night more and better candy and at the same time offer a Spiritual motif complete with saying to all whom receive: JESUS IS THE LORD. AMEN
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
Kidan
Moderator
why should we celebrate the birth of Christ? we're not commanded to.
besides, i'm not talking about celebrating the birth of Christ, i'm talking about Christmas.
besides, i'm not talking about celebrating the birth of Christ, i'm talking about Christmas.
G
Guest
Guest
Do you enjoy it when your birth is celebrated?
Is Jesus NOT a man?
Though He does not need the gifts and desires you to share them with others, He does enjoy a birthday party.
Jesus loves to party!
In the Kingdome of Heaven on earth, there will be many parties. amen
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.AMEN
For it is not written, many things will be written. amen
For all things are not yet written.
Go ask brother John. amen
Is Jesus NOT a man?
Though He does not need the gifts and desires you to share them with others, He does enjoy a birthday party.
Jesus loves to party!
In the Kingdome of Heaven on earth, there will be many parties. amen
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.AMEN
For it is not written, many things will be written. amen
For all things are not yet written.
Go ask brother John. amen
Kidan
Moderator
actually i don't really care whether or not my birthday is celebrated.
G
Guest
Guest
i think if i were to give you a birthday party that Jesus Himself found suitable to ATTEND, you would care. amen
i am nothing and know you do not speak what is in your heart but what you think looks acceptable before other men.
Those who desire a party the greatest are those that disclaim them the most.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
Someone needs a birthday party!
i am nothing and know you do not speak what is in your heart but what you think looks acceptable before other men.
Those who desire a party the greatest are those that disclaim them the most.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
Someone needs a birthday party!
G
Guest
Guest
Father in Heaven, i ask in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth with HOPE you will allow us to give thanks before Jesus for creating kidan.
That we may call that thanks a birthday party. amen
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
That we may call that thanks a birthday party. amen
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
The arguement against Christmas, plz correct me if I'm wrong, is that it is horribly not the time of year when he would have been born, the holiday is centered around the winter solstice(sp?) and pagan celebrations of that ... I however look at it the same way as Halloween if you can take what is traditionally a Pagan holiday and use it to celebrate the greatness of the Lord, why wouldn't you?
Kidan
Moderator
oh I concur.
but it's also a matter of just how pagan and how destructive this holiday is
let's have a quick look shall we.
1) pagan symbols abound
--the Christmas tree, the Christmas wreath
2) Nativity scenes border on idols (what would people think if they came into my house, and ina place of priority was a Budha Idol? Why is this collection of other small statues different?)
3) Santa Claus. a number of the things about santa are based upon various pagan religions. As well as we attribute God like abilities (onmipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience) to him, and lie to our kids about him. Why should children believe parents about God and Christ, when we've lied to them about Santa, teh Easter Bnny and the tooth fairy?
4) most Christmas hymns have very bad doctrine as their basis.
but it's also a matter of just how pagan and how destructive this holiday is
let's have a quick look shall we.
1) pagan symbols abound
--the Christmas tree, the Christmas wreath
2) Nativity scenes border on idols (what would people think if they came into my house, and ina place of priority was a Budha Idol? Why is this collection of other small statues different?)
3) Santa Claus. a number of the things about santa are based upon various pagan religions. As well as we attribute God like abilities (onmipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience) to him, and lie to our kids about him. Why should children believe parents about God and Christ, when we've lied to them about Santa, teh Easter Bnny and the tooth fairy?
4) most Christmas hymns have very bad doctrine as their basis.
Christians adopted most of the paganistic practices during the early period of Christianity when paganism still ran rampant. They would have surely been slaughtered or ridiculed for celebrating Christ's birth and such. Yes, if you want to see it one way, they conformed to what was going on, but then again, maybe they just wanted to celebrate Christ.
Either way, I enjoy the Christmas time simply because of the activities that go on during that time. Church children's choir, me getting to play/sing Christmas hymns of worship with people, family getting together for a nice big ole' feast.
All things that I think Christ would've love to have done while HE was here on earth.
Christ came to give life abundantly, after all. So I say celebrate Him, and just don't forget why we get to celebrate.
Do I think we've become to materialistic in our celebration? Yes.
Do I think we COULD improve, as Christians?
Yes.
Do I honestly think we will?
No.
We've become so used to it that we expect this time of year and the gifts it brings, unfortunately.
Who knows, maybe it will take someone who has this really radical idea of celebrating Christ's birthday when it really should be (without all the materialism).....Wasn't it in like, the summer? September-Julyish?
I forget exactly, but I think that's right. Anyone else have that info handy?
Van
Either way, I enjoy the Christmas time simply because of the activities that go on during that time. Church children's choir, me getting to play/sing Christmas hymns of worship with people, family getting together for a nice big ole' feast.
All things that I think Christ would've love to have done while HE was here on earth.
Christ came to give life abundantly, after all. So I say celebrate Him, and just don't forget why we get to celebrate.
Do I think we've become to materialistic in our celebration? Yes.
Do I think we COULD improve, as Christians?
Yes.
Do I honestly think we will?
No.
We've become so used to it that we expect this time of year and the gifts it brings, unfortunately.
Who knows, maybe it will take someone who has this really radical idea of celebrating Christ's birthday when it really should be (without all the materialism).....Wasn't it in like, the summer? September-Julyish?
I forget exactly, but I think that's right. Anyone else have that info handy?
Van
Mithra.[b said:
He's the reason for the season.
{Big J pauses, listens for laughter,and hearing none, continues}
Kidan, I also wanted to ask you something.
Huh? They do? Like which ones? I'm genuinely curious...[b said:
Just to share...I have no intention of telling my future children about Santa Claus.
CCGR
Member
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
technically we shouldn't...but I tend to focus it more on Christ less on santa even though I realize Jesus was not born on that day
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
technically we shouldn't...but I tend to focus it more on Christ less on santa even though I realize Jesus was not born on that day
Kidan
Moderator
O COME, O COME, EMMANUELverses 1 & 2 are useable (pertaining to Jewish expectations). Verses 3 and 4 are so weak as to be misleading. In verse 4, Emmanuel is called "The Key of David." The Messiah has the key; in Scripture, He is not called the "key" (Isa. 22:22; Rev. 3:7). Also, the wording implies that one travels a journey to heaven. This kind of language usually signifies a type of works salvation
JOY TO THE WORLDBased on Psalm 98, it is descriptive of the Millennium. Ironically, this song does not directly relate to the First Advent at all! Why not sing it all year round?
O COME, ALL YE FAITHFULNote the strange expressions: "born the King of angels" (v. 1) and "born this happy morning" (v. 3). (Jesus was born to be King of Israel and most likely was born in the evening.) "King of angels" is not a Scriptural title. Surely He created them all, but His birth enabled Him to be born "King of the Jews" (a title that appears 18 times in Scripture).
HARK! THE HERALD ANGELS SINGProbably the best of the Christmas hymns as it is generally filled with Scriptural allusions. One error: the "herald angels" did not sing "Glory to the newborn King" (v. 1 & chorus; see Luke 2:14). Wesley's wording was changed by a later editor because his correct expression seemed quaint: "Hark how all the welkin rings, Glory to the King of kings. ..."
ANGELS, FROM THE REALMS OF GLORYVerse 1--No Biblical basis for angels to proclaim the message over all the earth. That's our job!;
SILENT NIGHT! HOLY NIGHT!Was it a "silent" night (angel proclamation, angels singing, birth of baby, shepherds visiting, shepherds reporting, etc.)? Where in the Bible does one get "all is bright"? Where does it say that the angels sang "Alleluia"? Where does it say that light radiated from the Baby's face? There is no record that the star's light was a part of the scene. The Scripture does not call that evening "silent" or "holy."
JOY TO THE WORLDBased on Psalm 98, it is descriptive of the Millennium. Ironically, this song does not directly relate to the First Advent at all! Why not sing it all year round?
O COME, ALL YE FAITHFULNote the strange expressions: "born the King of angels" (v. 1) and "born this happy morning" (v. 3). (Jesus was born to be King of Israel and most likely was born in the evening.) "King of angels" is not a Scriptural title. Surely He created them all, but His birth enabled Him to be born "King of the Jews" (a title that appears 18 times in Scripture).
HARK! THE HERALD ANGELS SINGProbably the best of the Christmas hymns as it is generally filled with Scriptural allusions. One error: the "herald angels" did not sing "Glory to the newborn King" (v. 1 & chorus; see Luke 2:14). Wesley's wording was changed by a later editor because his correct expression seemed quaint: "Hark how all the welkin rings, Glory to the King of kings. ..."
ANGELS, FROM THE REALMS OF GLORYVerse 1--No Biblical basis for angels to proclaim the message over all the earth. That's our job!;
SILENT NIGHT! HOLY NIGHT!Was it a "silent" night (angel proclamation, angels singing, birth of baby, shepherds visiting, shepherds reporting, etc.)? Where in the Bible does one get "all is bright"? Where does it say that the angels sang "Alleluia"? Where does it say that light radiated from the Baby's face? There is no record that the star's light was a part of the scene. The Scripture does not call that evening "silent" or "holy."
Thaddius
Member
CCGR,
You forgot the rest of that passage in Jeremiah.
Cory
You forgot the rest of that passage in Jeremiah.
[b said:
Cory
mrpopdrinker
New Member
Angels dont sing. I could be wrong but I think that is what cherubim and seraphim are for. As far as the tree I think that is suuposed to represent the tree of life of the two trees in the garden of Eden. It is supposed to represent Yeshua as being the new Adam and the tree of life, or somthing like that. I am actually undecided whether I will celebrate Christmas or not. Maby we should move christmas to September?[b said:
Kidan
Moderator
well since someone has brought up scriptures. let's look at some shall we?
2 Chron. 33:15-17 -- The Israelites had kept the old pagan form (the high places of Baal), but had merely introduced the worship of God into that form -- a refusal to let go of pagan worship forms (i.e., God was to be worshiped in the Temple, not on the high places). This was unacceptable worship because the right object of worship was mixed with wrong forms of worship; i.e., the mixing of godly worship with ungodly form. Likewise, is not the celebration of Christmas the taking of a celebration established by pagans and for pagans, and then introducing the worship of Christ into that pagan form?
Deut. 12:29-32 -- God warned His people Israel to destroy all vestiges of pagan worship that they found in the "Promised Land." Not only did God want to prevent His people from being enticed to worship false gods, but He also specifically revealed that He did not want His people to worship Him in the same manner in which the heathen worshiped their gods. We know, therefore, that our Lord is displeased by practices which profess to honor Him, but which are copied from the tradition of false religions. The command here was to worship God only in His way, i.e., do only what God commands -- not adding to God's commands nor taking away from them. Therefore, is not "putting Christ back into Christmas," worshiping "the Lord your God their way"? Is there any command in the Bible to give special reverence to the Scriptural account of Christ's birth more so than to any other Scripture, let alone even a suggestion to celebrate or commemorate His birth in any way whatsoever? God never intended for His people to be imitators of the pagan customs of the world, but has called us to be separate and set apart.
1 Ki. 12:26-33 -- In order to unify the northern ten tribes of Israel, ungodly King Jeroboam set up pagan idols, not in place of God, but as new focal points for directing worship to God. He even instituted a new festival on a new day; i.e., a new religious holiday of his own choosing. Even though the true God of Israel was still to be the object of worship in the new religious holiday, both the holiday and the worship were not authorized by God nor accepted by Him (1 Ki. 13:1-3; 15:29,30). Why? Because the concocted mixture of error with truth constituted false religion! Likewise, is not the celebration of Christmas a religious holiday of man's own choosing, replete with pagan symbols and forms, all under the guise (by sincere Christians at least) of worshiping the one true God and Savior? But does not this worship form and system still constitute false religion, and thereby, make it unacceptable to God? And besides, where in the Bible do Christians have the right to add a new holy day to the so-called Christian calendar, any more than King Jeroboam had the right to add a new holy day to God's theocratic calendar?
info from here: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/celeb.htm
also, the post earlier about the hymns, I was in a slight hurry, and forgot to post the link for that info as well
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/xmas_car.htm
2 Chron. 33:15-17 -- The Israelites had kept the old pagan form (the high places of Baal), but had merely introduced the worship of God into that form -- a refusal to let go of pagan worship forms (i.e., God was to be worshiped in the Temple, not on the high places). This was unacceptable worship because the right object of worship was mixed with wrong forms of worship; i.e., the mixing of godly worship with ungodly form. Likewise, is not the celebration of Christmas the taking of a celebration established by pagans and for pagans, and then introducing the worship of Christ into that pagan form?
Deut. 12:29-32 -- God warned His people Israel to destroy all vestiges of pagan worship that they found in the "Promised Land." Not only did God want to prevent His people from being enticed to worship false gods, but He also specifically revealed that He did not want His people to worship Him in the same manner in which the heathen worshiped their gods. We know, therefore, that our Lord is displeased by practices which profess to honor Him, but which are copied from the tradition of false religions. The command here was to worship God only in His way, i.e., do only what God commands -- not adding to God's commands nor taking away from them. Therefore, is not "putting Christ back into Christmas," worshiping "the Lord your God their way"? Is there any command in the Bible to give special reverence to the Scriptural account of Christ's birth more so than to any other Scripture, let alone even a suggestion to celebrate or commemorate His birth in any way whatsoever? God never intended for His people to be imitators of the pagan customs of the world, but has called us to be separate and set apart.
1 Ki. 12:26-33 -- In order to unify the northern ten tribes of Israel, ungodly King Jeroboam set up pagan idols, not in place of God, but as new focal points for directing worship to God. He even instituted a new festival on a new day; i.e., a new religious holiday of his own choosing. Even though the true God of Israel was still to be the object of worship in the new religious holiday, both the holiday and the worship were not authorized by God nor accepted by Him (1 Ki. 13:1-3; 15:29,30). Why? Because the concocted mixture of error with truth constituted false religion! Likewise, is not the celebration of Christmas a religious holiday of man's own choosing, replete with pagan symbols and forms, all under the guise (by sincere Christians at least) of worshiping the one true God and Savior? But does not this worship form and system still constitute false religion, and thereby, make it unacceptable to God? And besides, where in the Bible do Christians have the right to add a new holy day to the so-called Christian calendar, any more than King Jeroboam had the right to add a new holy day to God's theocratic calendar?
info from here: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/celeb.htm
also, the post earlier about the hymns, I was in a slight hurry, and forgot to post the link for that info as well
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/xmas/xmas_car.htm
Thaddius
Member
Kidan, I was wondering a few things.
1. Do you celebrate Christmas? If so, how do you and your family do it?
2. This site you have posted links from, how accurate do you find this information? Some of it seems....stretched by pulling versus throughout the Bible to make points to agree with the writters position.
I have ready 4 articles besides the two you posted links, including the one on the Salvation Army two on Christian music and 1 on Campus Crusades for Christ, and it seems to me they find fault with everything.
What group/people maintain it and where do they get their information?
Cory
1. Do you celebrate Christmas? If so, how do you and your family do it?
2. This site you have posted links from, how accurate do you find this information? Some of it seems....stretched by pulling versus throughout the Bible to make points to agree with the writters position.
I have ready 4 articles besides the two you posted links, including the one on the Salvation Army two on Christian music and 1 on Campus Crusades for Christ, and it seems to me they find fault with everything.
What group/people maintain it and where do they get their information?
Cory
Kidan
Moderator
Thad
Yes I do, but the more I think about the more I have to wonder if we SHOULD.
Actually I don't agree with a good portion of the articles, mainly because they do find fault with everything. but this is actually a good topic to discuss, especially since we just got finished having all those fun Harvest Festivals that churches swear aren't Halloween, yet nearly everyone jumps for joy and fun at Christmas time, when it's roots are just as pagan as Halloweens.
Yes I do, but the more I think about the more I have to wonder if we SHOULD.
Actually I don't agree with a good portion of the articles, mainly because they do find fault with everything. but this is actually a good topic to discuss, especially since we just got finished having all those fun Harvest Festivals that churches swear aren't Halloween, yet nearly everyone jumps for joy and fun at Christmas time, when it's roots are just as pagan as Halloweens.
Thaddius
Member
This is something I have struggled with myself. I've questioned it for years because of what it has become. I mean, we know it is full of pagan symbolism, and Christ wasn't born in the winter. Why do we as Christians find this acceptable? You bring up a good point, unfortunatly, I cannot answer it.
Cory
Cory
G
Guest
Guest
The BIRTH OF CHRIST JESUS CAN BE CELEBRATED AT ANY TIME OF THE YEAR.
IT IS ON NO CONSEQUENCE THE DAY OR THE TIME OF DAY.
So little ones you bash yourselves on barren ground.
To wit concerning the nature of this topic you have chosen: it does not make a difference worth a difference.
Or as you can understand it, YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR WHEELS AND NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
IT IS ON NO CONSEQUENCE THE DAY OR THE TIME OF DAY.
So little ones you bash yourselves on barren ground.
To wit concerning the nature of this topic you have chosen: it does not make a difference worth a difference.
Or as you can understand it, YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR WHEELS AND NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN