Christianity is too freakin' confusing.

[PapaToad]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,10:36)]

Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Oct. 28 2004,10:27)]So When you have all the world to playing (WWW wise) You come to a christian gameing site. You have concreted and solidifed many here to a solid-er faith and a better acceptance of GOD and Lord Christ and the bible. I do not see the problem. Then you claim you have no hole in your life, yet you seek truth in the exsistance of God:

Let me see if I have this correct

You respect our opinions and views.

You have not been ride or crass

You have many us think and confirm our beliefs and justify thru faith our love of Lord Christ and God

You want proof you can not find, but have given it to many ( That must be the hardest for you)

You a funny man. I find you cute, at first you mad me angry , but you really have made me learn and think and relay on faith and my Knowledge, and learning and testing. You have brought me closer to Lord Christ.

Thru you DV I am a stronger and better Christian. You are a gift from God to many of us here and thru out my ministry, when I m in a tough spot, Will have these forums to fall back on and the faith tested and tried my you.

My brother in Christ.

Thanks!

Then you're welcome  

I wasn't out to deconvert anyone, nor am I "hurt" that my questions have strengthened your faith.  Honestly, I don't care.  If you get something out of it, great, if not, oh well.

If I wanted to ask questions of Christians, why would I go to an atheist?

I went straight to the horse's mouth.

Is that some big surprise?  Is it surprising that someone with a dissenting view can still respect you?  Can you not respect an atheist?  Or is that asking too much?

I feel I have respected you. I hope I have. THere is a truism God is ffor everyone, not everyone is for God. I learned that lesson

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Plankeye @ Oct. 28 2004,11:22)]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,1:09)]You are still laboring under the delusion that I harbor some emnity against God. That I sit at my computer rubbing my hands together devising new ways to deny Him.

I'm not. If the God you believe in exists, then He wants me to believe in Him. If that is the case, then He will give me the evidence I need to believe in Him.

Until that time, I will not pine away for something that I cannot believe in. It would be like a dog chasing its tail.

It is getting old DV. You do purposely look for evidence to deny Christ. Do I need to dredge through all your posts and links to sites that prove that you actively look and as you put it "devising new ways to deny Him".

What would He have to do for you DV? What? Move a mountain? Part a sea? Create the universe from nothing? What does it take for you to believe? What would God accomplish by showing something that grand to you DV? You will either stay in your denial and call it a parlor trick or you will be so awe struck that you will believe by fear. That is not how God wants your love.

Forgive me, I humbly prostrate myself before you.

I had no idea that the Lord God Almighty had gifted you with being able to see into my heart and mind, allowing you to understand my inner workings better than I do myself.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]
I feel I have respected you. I hope I have. THere is a truism God is ffor everyone, not everyone is for God. I learned that lesson

I hope I didn't give you the impression that you were disrespectful. I don't feel that way at all.

Not everyone is for God? Why is that?

 

[Plankeye]

I wish I could say I am sorry to have struck a nerve with you DV.  If believing in God was an easy thing, everyone would be doing it.  You can try to point fingers at me to take away the heat from yourself but you have some serious questions to answer.  What will it take for you to believe?  You have built up such a wall in your life that I doubt there is much any of us could do to bring it down.  That is a wall you have built in your life.  Every post you bring here speaks to it.  I do not need some gift to see that.  That are that blaringly obvious.  By your own obmission on these forums, and even in this post you are not a believer.  Did I need a gift to see that?  Come on.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I admit that I am not a believer. But, can you tell me WHY? I believe I've answered that several times.

I've also addressed what it will take for me to believe. Or did you miss that post? If you did, then you have missed the big picture. You have come to a conclusion based on ignorance of the facts.

So which is it? Are you being presumptuous and making conclusions without all the facts or are you simply ignoring them?

You did strike a nerve with me. You have called me dishonest and you have called me a liar. I am neither.

 

[Plankeye]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,12:05)]If God wants me, I'm right here waiting.

Yes you are a liar. You are not waiting for him. You continue to use every excuse, every argument you find not to believe. Your past actions and statements are an outright lie to the statement I am quoting. Every action on these forums speak against you being open minded and willing to hear what we have been trying to say to you. You continue to argue for reason not to believe. You continue to hide behind the walls you have created in your life.

So what? You are a sinner like everyone else on these boards. Are you to proud to accept that simple fact that you are sinner and that you use that sin as a wedge between you and God?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Awww, crap, you caught me!

I might as well give it up now.

My whole time here I have been lying to each and every one of you.

HAHAHA! I had you so fooled.

[/sarcasm]

Does your forum name mean anything? Does your little bible verse at the bottom of your posts mean anything to you?

I have made myself very clear, why you think I have lied about myself is beyond me. You have made up your mind about me based on things that aren't true. You claim to know me so well, but you don't have a clue.

I have stated, MANY times, that I will not sit and wait for something that I don't have evidence to believe in. That doesn't make sense to me, nor does it make sense to most people. Before I can "accept" God or "look" for God, I have to first BELIEVE such a being exists. I do not, I think I have given my reasons for this.

Did every believer have the same threshold for belief? I don't think so. There isn't ONE bit of evidence that allows everyone to believe. It's something different for each person. Some have a higher threshold than others.

I don't expect anyone to come to my defense here, but I don't believe the majority of people here think that I am a liar and have been dishonest about myself. If they do, they need to speak up because there is no reason for me to be here.

When did I deny that I sin? I believe I've talked about that too. One more discussion that you have missed, one more piece of evidence you have missed, one more assumption made.

Plankeye, you are wrong about me. You haven't seen the whole picture. You have been presumptuous and accusatory.

 

[Plankeye]

Yes the bible verse means a lot to me. The whole sermon on the mount is a very powerful message. But how does that verse apply to you stating you are waiting for God when everything you say and do here speaks against that?

I am sorry DV, but God is not going to smack you on top of your head with a bolt of lighting just to get you to believe. Why does he want some mindless person devoid of free choice to believe and love him?

So why are you here? I highly doubt it is to get answers to questions you have already made up your mind on.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]So why are you here?

I've already answered that question numerous times.

If the answer doesn't suit you, I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Quote[/b] ]Why does he want some mindless person devoid of free choice to believe and love him?

What does proof of His existence have to do with Free Will? I still have a choice to believe in Him or not to believe in Him. Proof does not negate Free Will.

Plankeye, if you have a problem with me being here, talk to CCGR or a Moderator. If just one of them asks me to leave then I will honor their wishes.

I will not, however, sit idly by and let you call me a liar and say that I have been dishonest in everything that I have done and said. It is not true.

 

[Plankeye]

Answer it here.  Link some posts (not topics) where you specifcally answer why you are here so I can get educated.

Asking you to leave would be the easy way out of it and anything easy comes with its own price.  So I am afraid you don't get off that easy.  You have some real barriers you have put up in your life that make any argument, any testiment we make and attempt to show you the hope and salvation we have null and void.  I would rather keep working away at that barrier even if it is like hitting a cement wall at 60 mph.

You must be feeling a little convicted about the liar comment as my comment was directly related to you waiting for God when it is clear that you are not.  No where did I say you are dishonest about everything you have done and said.  But hey, we are all sinners here.  No need to blow it out of proportion or hide it.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Plankeye @ Oct. 28 2004,3:11)]

Quote[/b] ]Answer it here. Link some posts (not topics) where you specifcally answer why you are here so I can get educated.

Why don't YOU look for them? In the process, you might actually learn something about me instead of trying to make inferences without all the data.

Quote[/b] ]Asking you to leave would be the easy way out of it and anything easy comes with its own price. So I am afraid you don't get off that easy. You have some real barriers you have put up in your life that make any argument, any testiment we make and attempt to show you the hope and salvation we have null and void. I would rather keep working away at that barrier even if it is like hitting a cement wall at 60 mph.

So what exactly would you like me to do?

Quote[/b] ]You must be feeling a little convicted about the liar comment as my comment was directly related to you waiting for God when it is clear that you are not. No where did I say you are dishonest about everything you have done and said. But hey, we are all sinners here. No need to blow it out of proportion or hide it.

How would you feel if you were wrongly accused of something?

Quote[/b] ]Don't lie to me. Every post you have here speaks to the walls you have put up in your heart and mind to the message of salvation.

Quote[/b] ]So don't lie to me DV or yourself.

Quote[/b] ]You do purposely look for evidence to deny Christ.

Quote[/b] ]Yes you are a liar. You are not waiting for him.

All these quotes are yours. Quite accusatory are they not?

You have made some very inflammatory remarks about my character. All of them untrue. And you have the audacity to question why I and defend myself?

 

[Plankeye]

If you don't want to answer the question. That is fine. I'll be honest why I am not going to look through every one of your posts. I simply do not have the time as you have close to 2000 posts now. Besides, what I have already read, yes this not the first one of your posts I have read, I am more then educated about your position but I am looking for an answer to why you are here, not what you believe on one particular topic.

Yes those are my quotes. You were the one to make the statements you were waiting for God and that you did not sit at your PC devising evidence to deny Christ. Where was I wrong about you lieing about your statement that you are waiting for God? Every topic you start, every post you make speaks against that even the one you started here.

I'll be honest with you. I would like to see you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior. To feel the same love and hope that I and many members of this board share. I think it would be awesome to see you defend your faith with the same zeal that you use to oppose it now. But that is only what I would like. All those things are totally in your hands. It is your choice to open up to the Holy Spirit as it is your choice to deny Him. I can only do what I was commanded do and to give you the reason for the hope in my heart. It's not the Church. It's not some great revelation by someone who knows more then me. It is God. It has and will always be God and the sacrifice he made for my many sins and yours too.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]If you don't want to answer the question.  That is fine.  I'll be honest why I am not going to look through every one of your posts.  I simply do not have the time as you have close to 2000 posts now.  Besides, what I have already read, yes this not the first one of your posts I have read, I am more then educated about your position but I am looking for an answer to why you are here, not what you believe on one particular topic.

I don't believe you are anywhere near educated enough to make a valid assumption as to my character.  If you were, you would not call me a liar.  Nor would you consider me dishonest.  There are fellow board members you could ask that have read more posts of mine than you have, by all means ask them.

Quote[/b] ]Yes those are my quotes. You were the one to make the statements you were waiting for God and that you did not sit at your PC devising evidence to deny Christ.  Where was I wrong about you lieing about your statement that you are waiting for God?  Every topic you start, every post you make speaks against that even the one you started here.

This is simply not true.  Asking questions is how people learn.  I cannot learn without asking questions.  Sorry, but I'm on the opposite side of the fence.  There ARE other people in the world with dissenting opinions.  As I said before, I came here to get Christian opinions, to understand why Christians believe what they believe.  EVERY post I make isn't part of some elaborate conspiracy to deny God.  That is just not so.  It is your opinion and an incorrect one at that.

Quote[/b] ]I'll be honest with you.  I would like to see you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.  To feel the same love and hope that I and many members of this board share.  I think it would be awesome to see you defend your faith with the same zeal that you use to oppose it now.  But that is only what I would like.  All those things are totally in your hands.  It is your choice to open up to the Holy Spirit as it is your choice to deny Him.  I can only do what I was commanded do and to give you the reason for the hope in my heart.  It's not the Church.  It's not some great revelation by someone who knows more then me.  It is God.  It has and will always be God and the sacrifice he made for my many sins and yours too.

As I have said before, no amount of desire or willingness on my part will cause belief.  I can't do it.  You can't do it.  Only God can.  I have spent years of my life asking, begging, pleading, praying for that to happen.  If it's going to happen, it will be because God wants it.  I am open to the possibility of His existence.  If He does exist, then He knows me better than anyone, He knows what will make me believe.  If He wants me to believe, He will make it so.  

This isn't new, I've said this before.  Unfortunately, you doubt my sincerity, so I doubt you believe anything that I say.  That's the plank you need to remove from your own eye.  Knock the chip off your shoulder, and do whatever you need to do to get over it and view me subjectively, not with a skewed, jaded look.

Until then, what more can I do to convince you of my sincerity?

 

[LITSAFALDA]

Goodness..... I wished we would all be a bit more civil and loving. As even from your own mouth DV you have said you do believe in love. I am not just fussing at you either but again will try politely to step into this. I really do appreciate that you do not get soo forceful with me. ( I do not think that this lady's heart could take that.) I do have a question though from an earlier post if I recall correctly you said you do not believe in prayer or that they are answered but you said you have asked pleaded prayed for God to show you what you feel will give you understanding and to tell you that He exist. I am just wondering how you can pray if you do not believe in it?

I am not accusing etc just a polite question that I hope you will take that way. Now to this subject a bit. I agree with many of them man has sort of helped the way things are confusing but I would also have to say that Satan himself has helped out a lot there too so that there are problems and such. The church started splitting due to my own denominational belief which is lutheran. Martin Luther had some questions from his own study about how the church was teaching. All he did was do what was the norm for the time and post on the church doors his questions. When he did this others started thinking a bit for themselves instead of being hand fed what they should believe and how they should believe. Even though I still agree with the majority which is that there is only one way to Heaven or eternal life if you'd rather use that and that is through belief that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all my sins. As a Christian I stive for a better life and try to do what is right and appropriate in God's eyes but I know that I daily if not every minute of the day sin.
Back to the pagan holidays that you were talking about that maybe some did not know what you were meaning ..... in the old days it was easier to get a foot in the door by not telling people to stop these traditions and I do admit that the timing we use for some things are probably not the exact one of say Christ's birth etc I do not choose to celebrate these things due to the pagan beliefs behind the timing but because of my heart felt belief in MY LORD & SAVIOR. Also I do not have the personal belief of that specific time of being saved I sort of go with a comment my pastor made the other day. When he is asked when was he saved he says more then 2000 years ago. This is actually the honest truth because Jesus died for all of mankind's sins then regardless of when we choose to accept him as Savior.
I think I have shared what I feel in my heart to share today. ( In case I have not said this I do not disrespect you. I actually am glad that for the most part you can stay civil to people unless you feel that you are being hmmm judged. My heart hurts that the way for your belief has not been shown.) Maybe we should all remember to let God be the judge and just love each other and like the song goes "Show we are Christians by our love." Again this is just my opinion on this. Since I know you believe in Love and to me love is not provable maybe just maybe this "unprovable" existance of God will make His face shown to you. It will come in His timing and His way I truly believe that. ( It probably will not be a brick either. I would say it will be a still small voice and you probably won't be certain on that for a bit either.)
Blessings,"Angel"

 

[Bowser]

Quote[/b] ]This isn't new, I've said this before. Unfortunately, you doubt my sincerity, so I doubt you believe anything that I say.

I don't think anyone in this room is very quick to believe another; so don't use it against a single person.

Dark Virtue, please change your last comment...

 

[TheJfreak]

RgR what bowser said dont talk to plank like that

 

[Dark Virtue]

Sheesh, chill out, it's a figure of speech.

Consider it changed.

Funny how no one minded my being called a liar, unfairly I might add.

LITSA, to answer your question about the praying...all that was done back when I was a Christian, many years ago. You were right to wonder, but as you can see, there was a simple explanation.

 

[Aradia2]

I think it takes a strong, determined person to admit to others that they are not christian...

 

[LITSAFALDA]

DV That was part of my reason for asking for people to be more civil. As I said it was not just directed at you. I cannot say that you are or are not a liar because from your perspective you do not feel that you are. Just like I cannot say who is or is not a Christian because only God knows each of our hearts. So instead I asked for people to politely ask and answer each other without things getting on the rude side. Again this is from a lady's heart which is just soo tired of people hurting each other instead of just trying to love and understand each other. The discussions can be done without name calling or hurtful comments. I try my best when I post if I feel it may be a bit hurtful to ask things in a respectful way. Guess what I get respectful replies back to me too. HMMMM wonder how that happens. Some my advice to all would be to try to be kind and loving to each other.
DV thank you for answering my question as I am still praying for your logic to just fade. Blessings,"Angel"

 

[Dark Virtue]

You are most welcome.

However, I am happy with my logic as it is.

Instead, pray that God answers my questions logically