Christianity is too freakin' confusing.

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Dark Virtue

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I pity the poor soul looking to convert to Christianity.

Where does one begin?

There are HUNDREDS of different translations of the "one true" Bible.

There are many, many different sects, denominations, divisions and cults of Christianity all claiming to follow Christ's teachings yet all teaching contrary things.

There is very little unity between these denominations, with hatred and bloodshed still taking place today, yet all fly under the banner of peace and love.

There are many different, conflicting theories on salvation.

Christianity abhors anything unChristian yet embraces pagan rituals as its own.

Christians detest hypocrisy yet as a whole, no one rises up against the biggest hypocrites like Benny Hinn, instead allowing them to deceive fellow brothers and sisters.

Christians use personal experiences and miracles to support the belief in their God while ignoring the fact that other religious followers have similar experiences to support the belief in THEIR gods.

I could go on and on, but my brain is splitting.

I'd ask how you guys find ways to get along together, but it's obvious that denominations DON'T get along. Everyone can't be right. Where does one cross the line to believing something that won't get them "saved". Can someone be a Christian and NOT be "saved"? If so, how many people in history have died under the impression they were saved, but really aren't. Do these people get a second chance to learn the RIGHT way?

The more time I spend here, the more confused I get.

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all the controversey, contradiction, different sects, disagreement, the hypocracy, and all that stuff that you mention seems to be inherently a HUMAN problem. i.e. done by, caused by... humans. my guess is that those items have little do with Christianity in itself. Christianity is really quite simple i.m.o. it's then a matter of whether you want to believe.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I'd ask how you guys find ways to get along together, but it's obvious that denominations DON'T get along.
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I'd say this community is living proof that Christians from different walks, different denominations, from differing opinions can and do indeed get along every single day with minimal effort.
 
Very well put, both of you!  

*sigh* as usual, DV, great topic!  Are you sure you weren't called to preach?  Oftentimes, your questions make me stop, think, question my belief's, and take a good, hard look at myself!  

I will answer the one question that you did not want to ask.  I attend a couple of ladies Bible studies with every denomination known to man.  The common denominator is love, and the belief that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified is our only hope for salvation.  Other than that, I feel, it becomes a matter of splitting hairs.  In addition, that is what we focus on, not our differences.

I will be the first to admit, ashamedly, when you see wrong doing in Christianity, it is not God's or the Bible, or anything contained there that is wrong, it is me.
 
IT may seem that way at appearse when trying to look at the broad strokes and debating about all the "doctrine".

I doubt there are many Christians that would deny that the only way is by God's grace, and that by Faith in Christ Jesus we are saved, not by our own works or doing, but by God's grace alone. As a response to that, everything else is an "outporing" of what we should do. many say you should live a life of good works, while others will say nothing you do can save you (which is true but that doesnt deny our good works). Also as an act of your confession of Christ, Publicly, you should be baptized in water. I personally do not try to adhere to any strict docterinal code, i believe many of the denominations have something write not everything, i do my best to stick with what God's word says and not mans traditions. That is the whole idea behind the restoration/ non-denominational movement, but being that it is usually guided by men, tradition steps in and many of the things that happen in the church are done because that is how it has always been done.
 
I decided to be a bible believeing Christen, I find it very non cuonfusing, putting GOD 1st and obeying the greatest commandment
 
No offense, but you all lack subjectivity.

I'm on the outside looking in and all I see is chaos, chaos from the inception of the religion.

Nobody here actually KNOWS what God's way is. It's been so diluted and altered numerous times. Every Christian follows what he or she BELIEVES to be right. That doesn't mean it IS right. And who really cares when one has Faith? The reason there are different denominations is because somebody couldn't agree with somebody else, so they made up their own rules, their own interpretations.

If God is real, then I'm willing to bet He is extremely pissed. He gave you ONE book, one set of rules, but that wasn't good enough. You guys look forward to the rapture, but if I were you, I'd be scared.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If God is real, then I'm willing to bet He is extremely pissed.  He gave you ONE book, one set of rules, but that wasn't good enough.  You guys look forward to the rapture, but if I were you, I'd be scared.
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A.  I am sure God is not pleased at all at how the church has become lukewarm.
B.  Yes God did.
C.  God gave Adam one rule and Adam blew it.
D.  If there is a rapture, and I am taken away, I wouldn't be worried. If there was a rapture and I wasn't taken, I'd be...well, much more then scared.
 
Isn't that a real possibility?

How would you feel, any of you, watching these other people rising into the air and you weren't among them?
 
I pity the poor soul who cops out a belief in atheism to deny his Lord and Savior.

Your statements are all about the human side of the faith.  Quite frankly, human are screwed up.  That is why Christ came down 2000 years ago to bring a message of hope and salvation.  That is what spoke to me.  It was not the name of the church my parents forced me to go to before I became saved.  It was not the teachings of one person that bought me my salvation.  As man is born a sinner and has an overdriving tendency to commit sin.  So I do not base my faith on the actions of any man or woman for they are as much of a sinner as I am.  But God can use anyone to tell his message even if they screw up.  Is Peter teachings any less relevant now because he lied to Christ when he said he would never deny knowing him?  No.

Hatred and bloodshed, again, sinful human intervention.  Humans hate each other just because one came from another town.  Ever been to a high school rivalry?  I have seen people do the stupidest things just because someone is in another group if it be political, social or religious.  So to tag that to Christ is ridiculous.

On your statement about many different ways to salvation.  I am sorry but there is only one way and that is through the Son.  Unfortunately, people have had 2000 years to pervert that simple message to fit their needs.  Again, another example of how screwed up humans are.

Pagan rituals?  When I asked for His forgiveness.  When I submitted to His will.  When I praise the name of my Lord and savior every chance I can.  I am participating in some pagan ritual?

As far as personal experience, that is all I have to share with you DV.  I was very much like you, arguing all the time with friends who were Christian.  But thankfully, an ex wiccan wanted to share with me a message of hope and salvation that someone had shared with him.  Thankfully, I had parents who at the time, I thought they were just trying to torture me by dragging me to church, but were really concerned about me.  They loved me and wanted me to have the same thing they had.  Peace in knowledge of an eternal savior that came down 2000 years ago to die for me.  That is the message that spoke to me.  Not how to baptize someone, can you lose your salvation or anything else that defines a difference between one and another denomination.  That is the message we are asked to put our faith and belief in.  You can hide behind all your clever arguments like I did for all those years.  I know how it is DV and it is a dark existence with a gaping void left in your heart not knowing your future or your Lord and savior.

Bottom line DV, I was lost once to.  I used every argument to deny Christ.  I trusted in people who cared very much for me.  They shared why it is they cared for me and what they had found.  That is and will always be an undeniable personal experience of my faith.  Something your endless arguments will never take away and something you will never understand as long as you keep denying Christ both in your heart and your mind.
 
Well if God would stop playing peek-a-boo with His creation we wouldn't be in this mess now would we?

Sorry Plankeye, but I don't have a gaping void in my life, nor do I live some sort of dark existence.

If God wants me, I'm right here waiting.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,12:05)]Well if God would stop playing peek-a-boo with His creation we wouldn't be in this mess now would we?

Sorry Plankeye, but I don't have a gaping void in my life, nor do I live some sort of dark existence.

If God wants me, I'm right here waiting.
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Don't lie to me.  Every post you have here speaks to the walls you have put up in your heart and mind to the message of salvation.  You are not seeking Him.  But you are seeking every reason not to.  Appraently you have doubts in those walls.  That is why you are here.  You want us to help shore up your beliefs by putting us on defense for what we believe.  I am sorry but I can not help you in that endeavor.  I used to believe what you did.  I bought into the lie there was no God and even if there was he has no effect on us.  Now I know in my heart that is not the case.  The same heart that gives me an unfailling love for my wife and son.  A love I now experience for my Lord and savior.

So don't lie to me DV or yourself.  It doesn't become you.
 
So When you have all the world to playing (WWW wise) You come to a christian gameing site. You have concreted and solidifed many here to a solid-er faith and a better acceptance of GOD and Lord Christ and the bible. I do not see the problem. Then you claim you have no hole in your life, yet you seek truth in the exsistance of God:

Let me see if I have this correct

You respect our opinions and views.

You have not been ride or crass

You have many us think and confirm our beliefs and justify thru faith our love of Lord Christ and God

You want proof you can not find, but have given it to many ( That must be the hardest for you)

You a funny man. I find you cute, at first you mad me angry , but you really have made me learn and think and relay on faith and my Knowledge, and learning and testing. You have brought me closer to Lord Christ.

Thru you DV I am a stronger and better Christian. You are a gift from God to many of us here and thru out my ministry, when I m in a tough spot, Will have these forums to fall back on and the faith tested and tried my you.

My brother in Christ.

Thanks!
 
Maybe, you need to remove the plank from your own eye to see better.

I am not a liar. I am not lying now.

Why should I?

I am not in denial. I do not deny the existence of God because I'm stubborn. I deny the existence of God because I don't have evidence to believe.

I don't know what you went through or who you are. To assume that you know what I have gone through or what lies in my heart is presumptuous at best.

I'm sorry, but you have to accept that there are those people in the world who do not share your same views. Nor are they all stubborn.

If I had proof, evidence that God existed, then yes, your accusations would be correct and I would be the thing that I despise most, a hypocrite. I am no hypocrite, as I do not have that proof or evidence.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Oct. 28 2004,10:27)]So When you have all the world to playing (WWW wise) You come to a christian gameing site. You have concreted and solidifed many here to a solid-er faith and a better acceptance of GOD and Lord Christ and the bible. I do not see the problem. Then you claim you have no hole in your life, yet you seek truth in the exsistance of God:

Let me see if I have this correct

You respect our opinions and views.

You have not been ride or crass

You have many us think and confirm our beliefs and justify thru faith our love of Lord Christ and God

You want proof you can not find, but have given it to many ( That must be the hardest for you)

You a funny man. I find you cute, at first you mad me angry , but you really have made me learn and think and relay on faith and my Knowledge, and learning and testing. You have brought me closer to Lord Christ.

Thru you DV I am a stronger and better Christian. You are a gift from God to many of us here and thru out my ministry, when I m in a tough spot, Will have these forums to fall back on and the faith tested and tried my you.

My brother in Christ.

Thanks!
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Then you're welcome
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I wasn't out to deconvert anyone, nor am I "hurt" that my questions have strengthened your faith. Honestly, I don't care. If you get something out of it, great, if not, oh well.

If I wanted to ask questions of Christians, why would I go to an atheist?

I went straight to the horse's mouth.

Is that some big surprise? Is it surprising that someone with a dissenting view can still respect you? Can you not respect an atheist? Or is that asking too much?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,10:05)]Well if God would stop playing peek-a-boo with His creation we wouldn't be in this mess now would we?

Sorry Plankeye, but I don't have a gaping void in my life, nor do I live some sort of dark existence.

If God wants me, I'm right here waiting.
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Honestly, when I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was its not God playing peek -a- boo with you, its you hiding behind the walls you built playing keep away from God.
 
What walls?

Needing evidence? Wanting proof? Not being able to believe in the supernatural?

If those are walls, then yes, they are of my own devising.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,12:48)]What walls?

Needing evidence?  Wanting proof?  Not being able to believe in the supernatural?

If those are walls, then yes, they are of my own devising.
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Your right, they are of you own devising. They are exactly what keeps you from seeing the truth. I have every right to compare you to me. We are all sinners. We all share the same thing. Sin is the gap between us and a relationship with God. Sin encompasses so many things DV. If it be sins of flesh or blasphemy. Everyone on this board is on the same boat. We are all born sinners. We by our very nature we try to widen that gap. In your case, it is using atheism to hide your sin. If there is no God, then you do not have to be responsable for your current and past actions. How convienent.

How many of us have to tell you our own personal experiences, the personal evidence we have? How many of us have to tell you about the proof we have found? How many of us have to tell you about the Holy Spirit that fills them because of their belief? How many DV? Well it ever be enough to overcome the walls you impose on your own life?
 
You are still laboring under the delusion that I harbor some emnity against God. That I sit at my computer rubbing my hands together devising new ways to deny Him.

I'm not. If the God you believe in exists, then He wants me to believe in Him. If that is the case, then He will give me the evidence I need to believe in Him.

Until that time, I will not pine away for something that I cannot believe in. It would be like a dog chasing its tail.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 28 2004,1:09)]You are still laboring under the delusion that I harbor some emnity against God.  That I sit at my computer rubbing my hands together devising new ways to deny Him.

I'm not.  If the God you believe in exists, then He wants me to believe in Him.  If that is the case, then He will give me the evidence I need to believe in Him.

Until that time, I will not pine away for something that I cannot believe in.  It would be like a dog chasing its tail.
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It is getting old DV. You do purposely look for evidence to deny Christ. Do I need to dredge through all your posts and links to sites that prove that you actively look and as you put it "devising new ways to deny Him".

What would He have to do for you DV? What? Move a mountain? Part a sea? Create the universe from nothing? What does it take for you to believe? What would God accomplish by showing something that grand to you DV? You will either stay in your denial and call it a parlor trick or you will be so awe struck that you will believe by fear. That is not how God wants your love.
 
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