[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Tom, you have absolutly no clue who I am or where I am from. Making the assumption, and then an arguement based on that assumption, just proves my previous post - namely, your ignorance. FYI, I am from Romania, and yes I do know how it feels to be afraid of speaking your mind, "securitate" knocking on the door in the middle of the night and taking your parents away, relatives - here today, gone tomorrow, relatives tortured and/or locked away in metal institution. Further, my escape from Romania was during the Ceausescu, my cousin did not make it out - let's just leave it at that - so, again, I am very well aware of living conditions under dictatorships. I am not certain, you didn't specify in your post how old you were when your family left Russia, so maybe ask you parents in that case - what goes through their minds when they hear a leader/president say "you are either with me or against me". I know how I felt, and it scared me, certainly does not sound like democracy.
First of all, I am sorry to hear about your cousin
.
You sounded like you were from the US, so I apologize. Generally people from the States use pronouns such as "WE" and "OUR" when referring to actions undertaken by America and it's army (even though THEY have nothing to do with it), and therefore I made that assumption based on your post structure, and since I've seen the anti-war movement in the US use the same line over, and over, and over, and over.....
It seems you DO know what it's like to live under such conditions. My dad and his family actually were temporarily in German territory, so they know what you're talking about with the knock on the door in the middle of the night. My grandmother says what they feared most was that 2-3 am knock on the door from the SS. Again, my apologies, I did not know about your past, I sympathise with you about it, as I've heard stories of my own from my grandmother and my dad. But again, the way you structured your post made you sound like an American so I made that assumption.
[Edit: This was before I was born by the way.]
However, my dad certainly didn't have a problem with what Bush said, because he never said "you're either with ME, or you're against ME". What he actually said was, "you're either with us [that is, the USA], or you're with the terrorists". I watched that speech. Answer me these questions. What's wrong with that? How is that a challenge to democracy? It looks like he's saying that the USA is not going to tolerate countries that are harbouring terrorists, or not supporting the USA in eliminating the threat. Sounds like a good defense policy to me; sign me up President Bush, I'm with the USA!
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There are not many things in life that I value more than freedom, and the freedom of speech. I have also learned not to blindly trust any human leadership, rather, I do my research and analysis and form my opinions on that. You should try that sometime!
I do research my topics, actually, and since the US didn't take the oil in 1991 when those same protestors said they would, I have no reason to believe they would do it now, and you're going to have to prove to me why the US is so desperate for Iraqi oil.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You must be joking?!?! Did the world oil price raise when the notion of war started? Need I really say anymore?
No, actually, it didn't. The oil prices have been rising for YEARS! I have been paying 60-70 cents a litre for a number of years now (at least 3 or 4), when not too long ago it was around 50 cents a litre. I'd hate to inject some more fact into this, but when the gas companies started to use the oil shortage as an excuse to raise prices, Kuwait promised to pump out more oil to cover what was missing. The gas price actually dropped here once the war started (I live in Canada). So what's the explaination? Greedy, greedy oil companies. Ever notice that once the barrel price rises a little the gas prices will shoot up another 5 cents a litre, but when the barrel price drops the gas prices make a slow decline? Ever notice how the gas companies are supposed to have a 50 day supply, but the prices change on a weekly basis? Ever notice how every company sells their gas for the same, unjustifiably high price in each and every region? This has NOTHING to do with the war in Iraq. This was going on for a few years before talks about the war even started. Besides, Saudi Arabia has about TWICE the oil Iraq does, and Alberta theoretically has a boatload tied up in the oil sands as well. Sorry, you lose on this point.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Allied countries? Yeah, the UK and ok, Australia partialy. Other than that, please! What, Poland send a truckdriver? Uganda, a nurse? Seriously!
Yeah, but the protesters are saying that NO ONE is with the US. Whether you're the quarterback or a cheerleader, you're still a member of a football team. This is no different. France and Germany do not make up the ally base of the US (and if they did I would be worried). One final question, are the UK and Australia making a run for Iraqi oil too? It seems to me the one most interested in and worried about protecting his oil contracts with Iraq is Chirac. Eon, can I get a big YES on this one
.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Are you really serious about Kuwait and Saudi Arabia? Do you believe that the US can just go and invade whatever country they wish?
If the charges against Iraq are untrue, as you claim, and the US is REALLY that despirate for oil, than who's to stop them from perpetuating lies against other, oil-rich nations?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]BTW, under 2002 Iraq was one of the leading suppliers of oil to the US, ranked at #7, representing approx. 4% of our total import. This may be of interest
Wow. 4%! Mission critical people! Gees, if we lose that, our oil will only be at 96% of it's former size, and it's impossible for us to do extra drilling within our own borders, or buy additional oil from allies like Canada, Saudia Arabia, and Kuwait!
I also honestly don't recall Saddam threatening to turn off the taps to the US before the war TALKS began. If you have linkage of that, please let me know.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Again man, please, if you need someone to explain this you I have some advice. Go back to school.
I'm currently training as a mechanical engineer. What courses do you want me to add to my soon to be inhuman workload?
Prove to me that Iraq was going to close off their oil to the rest of the world and I'll buy what you're selling. Saddam actually had no choice but to give their oil to the rest of the world! Disagree? Go to the UNITED NATIONS website and look up the "Oil For Food Program". Heck, I'll do it for you, here's a link:
http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/
Looks like Iraq would be in serious trouble if they cut off their oil supply. That point wont work, sorry. Next.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Give it a rest. If Saddam had had access to WMDs he would have used it/them. I don't understand people that try this arguement, like you. On one hand Saddam is a ruthless, maniac tyrant (which I do agree with, btw). But on the other, he somehow forgot he had WMD?!? Or did he forget how to use them? Why do you wish for me to explain something that I can only possibly speculate on, when the particular issue is basically over and the facts are in? We attacked them, we waged war for approx 3 weeks, we won, no WMD were used by Iraq/Saddam. What else do you need know?
Saddam would not guarantee WMD use because we both know he would just HATE for the American war to be justified! Come on man, Saddam wants to be remembered in Arab folklore as a protector of the Arab world. The last thing he NEEDS is a justified war! Under those conditions, I don't know if he would use them even if the situation was desperate enough. And, if he had no WMDs, than he should not have been playing little games with the inspecters
And he has used them in the past by the way, but not against the USA. Want to see pictures of the results?
Furthermore, the United States has not deployed it's nuclear arsenal in Iraq. Can we assume that the US has destroyed it's nuclear stockpile?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You know, if the only way to express your point of view is by using foul language, at least be a man/woman about it and type the out letters.
Actually, I wasn't using foul language. To #### someone around basically means to play stupid little games with them. That word is blocked by the filter, obviously, which changes it to little pound signs. It was not a four letter word beginning with F or S.
![[7F]LarryBoy](/forums/data/avatars/m/1/1106.jpg?1442680067){kind=avatar}