Bible contains errors

Actually Kidan he says he's more of a materialist than anything else.
I think. Read Atheos, one of his books. Most definitely not a Christian. His first case is against pantheism.
 
Wow! Look what happens when i go away for the weekend.....

Neway, great thoughts guys! I love that board game analogy.

I agree with you Kidan: "Why? Because." Because God is God, and therefore he does what he wants. And that's the way it is. Period. We're just lucky he loves us
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Que--that just tells me that you aren't studying enuff! :P
As I have said in the past, apologetics is a requirement for a Christian. In Timothy, Paul tells us that we should always have an answer for questions that we are asked, especially concerning the Bible.


LarryBoy--Yup, too many people expect/want answers for the WHY. Why did such n such happen. How could God do that. Why would God do that.

All these questions always distract from the one question that actually matters.

How did I react to that?

While it's nice to know the why's, ultimately they are quite irrelevant and have no true meaning.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]As I have said in the past, apologetics is a requirement for a  Christian.  In Timothy, Paul tells us that we should always have an answer for questions that we are asked, especially concerning the Bible.
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Is it in Timothy?  I thought it was Peter who said we should always have a reason/answer for our faith.  I don't take it to mean we ALWAYS need an answer to every question.  Sometimes we may not have the answer.  We may need to dig a little more or ask someone with more knowledge.

Personally, I believe apologetics is just ONE way we are called to do this.  We are all different and have different spheres of influence.  For some, giving life examples of how Christ has changed us is all it takes for someone to accept Christ.  For others, they need that deep conversation and answers to the "How do you explain this and that in the Bible?"

Personally, I am more geared for the emotional, life giving examples than I am for the apologetic side.  Our care group is currently going through Case for Faith, and we are sort of torn in two groups.  Some of us are very head science types and want to learn all that stuff, and others of us are the more emotional and have a hard time getting into the book.

This forum (actually back when we were in the previous CCGR forum) helped me overcome a lot of my fears with apologetics way back in August last year.  Through these forums, I have had time to think through my answers.  I have the time to read other sources of material.  It has helped me immensely.  I am now more prepared than ever before when addressing some of these issues.  Eon, Kohael, and Mustard have all made comments I had never even heard before.  They have challenged me and forced me to research and delve deeper into new areas of Christianity I had never touched before.

I've actually not been too active on here as I used to. I went on vacation for Thanksgiving and then again for Christmas. This forum got so overwhelmed with posts, I just could not keep up. I am now finding my way back in.
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I thought it was Timothy, but it's been a while since I've read that particular verse so I could be wrong.

Yet I do know that Paul called the Berean's more noble Jews, becuase what they searched the scriptures for answers.

Throughout scriptures, those who knew, or were willing to search are called blessed, wise and noble.

We should know the Bible, and we should be able to defend it. While none of us are going to be able to defend against any and all attacks, we should be able to defend it in general. A good example would be these 'errors.' These are general questions that Christains should be able to answer, because they deal mainly with the concept of God (His power, His grace, and His nature)

Now I'm not saying that we come out of a conversion experience with this knowledge, but this is the type of knowledge, and the ability to answer this type of questions should be a part of discipleship training.
 
Cool! I totally agree.

I believe we need to study the scriptures. That's one of the reasons I am so involved in the Bible in a Year program. I want others to know the joy and benefits of studying the Bible.

I'm sorry. I may have sort of jumped the gun a bit on what I said. I sort of see two sides of apologetics. There's the biblical understanding. Stuff similar to this original posting with the listed 'errors'. Basically what you are talking about in regards to studying the scriptures. And then there is the evidence based things like science and historical records. It is that part of apologetics I was referring to in my post. What I was trying to say was, when we are called to defend our faith, I don't think we defend it 100% based on scientific or historical data. We defend it using our understanding of the bible and our own personal experiences. I think it's great to have that knowledge and understanding of the science and historical records, but I don't think that's what we should base our defenses on.
 
Reading my earlier post may not sound like it totally lines up with what I just said. But that's why I like these forums. They help me in stating my opinions. Kidan has helped me to explain myself better the next time something like this comes up.
 
Defenses on the Bible, or on apologetics?
"Thus said RC Sproul..."
"I believe that CS Lewis would have done this in such a situation."
"What would Paul say?"
As even Paul said: Don't base it on men, but on Christ, because He's the one that matters.
It's awesome to know what the Bible says, and again, and again, and again. Everytime a different thing. I could die with the Bible in my hands (hmm.....that's a pleasant pose! I just might try that one...(which means I must carry the Word everywhere. Is that necessary?))
and I'd still not know everything.
But it's nice to know many things that the Word has to say.
But, the Bible is not clear on many things. It refuses to be. God doesn't talk about it. The Bible does not cover all things. And it doesn't need to. What we have is what we need. The base. If there's anymore, I'd rather not read it, because I will highly question it, criticize it, perhaps even ignore it (I strongly doubt there IS another book, unless you count the missing ones of Catholicism, including eight with the Book of Enoch.)
There are questions we can't answer, no matter the apologetics or the faith. Not even Bro Andrew could squirm out of some situations, despite his great faith in God.
That's what I believe. Sure, all things are possible in Christ, but you know, "not all things are permissible." True that's kind of twisting it, but I believe that's another side to the story behind that verse.
 
UltimaA. Are you saying not to read commentaries and not to listen to what is taught at the pulpit? Or are you just talking about additional add-ons to the Bible (Apocropha and Enoch, as you mentioned).
 
Yeah I'm slightly confused by the post to Ultima.

Apologetics is the defense of the Bible and Christian faith.


In the strictest sense of the word, Paul could be said to be the first Christain Apologist. He preached and defended Christainity with intelligence and the Word of God.

There are no questions we can't answer. We might not like the answer we give. We might not agree with the answer we give. We might even argue the answer we give. But we have an answer, which is ultimatly an extension of what we know about the Bible, and extended to whatever you are being asked about.

A prime example: Porn. The Bible never says "Thou Shall Not Watch Porn." The Bible says to keep yourself pure, and to not do things which are sexually immoral. Knowing this I can say "Christains should not watch porn."


am I making sense?
 
Oh, no. I strongly believe we should listen to the words of the ministers...but we shouldn't revolve our entire life and meaning and base arguments against the world BY those who preach from the Word...go straight to the core and get the best power you can: right from the Mouth of God.
That's what I mean.
And yes Kidan, you are making total sense to me. As I also said, Paul said, "All things are permissible to me, but not all things are profitable..." Porn would be an example.
But, despite your answer, I still feel that some questions can't be answered, no matter the apologetics, no matter the Scripture verse. There are some things God will never reveal.
SSquared, what I was also saying that what we have in the Bible is all we need for salvation...perhaps Enoch contains some hidden mystery of God. Maybe the Church Elders censored it and we no longer possess it. Maybe it's all true. I don't think so, but hey. What I have in the Bible is what I need to get to heaven: it holds the key to my salvation, the message of the love of God, and the free grace he gives out to me, ME personally, and YOU personally.
That's what I was kinda trying to get at.
 
I agree completely. When we shed everything else away, it all comes down to the Bible and God's written Word. That's what I stand on.

I certainly agree we do not need to add anything else to it. I do not read the Apocrypha, for example. I've read about it, but that's about it.

But we always need to test what we read and what we've been told. Even reading multiple commentaries, I'll read conflicting ideas and thoughts. I try to discern which one I feel God is really trying to say. Or sometimes, I won't come to a conclusion, but I'll take note that there are different viewpoints.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
This individual does not want his claims refuted (as there is no way to get in touch with him, no feedback form, no email, and even a whois on his domain does not reveal a contact)....
Click to expand...

Kidan, here's some more info in case you are interested )

++++++

Primary Nameserver: ns1.0catch.com.
Domain Administrator's E-Mail Address: admin@0catch.com.
E-Mail to www.punkerslut.com. handled by: mail.punkerslut.com.
Nameservers: ns1.0catch.com. ns2.0catch.com.
Connections directly to www.punkerslut.com. really connect to:
www2.0catch.com. (209.63.57.11)
No RFC1101 compliance (it's optional).
SOA ns1.0catch.com. admin.0catch.com. 2002032500 1000 600 36000 3600
NS ns2.0catch.com.
NS ns1.0catch.com.
MX 10 mail.punkerslut.com.
A 209.63.57.11


Vass
 
Thanks Vass

Which whois server did you use? I tried like 3 and couldn't find that info.

Anyways, that looks like the same information you get when you look up my server in the whois, so that email addy, is probably the service provider's email.

That said, I'm also not going to contact him, because as I said he's taken great pains to NOT give his email out on the website, to try and contact him through that would be intrusive. If the guy had wanted to have a meaningful constructive conversation about the content on his page he would have put in a simple guestbook or forum or even a link to his email addy.

I provide a forum and links to my email address on my site so that people who have issues with what I say on there can express their opinions and tell me why they think I'm wrong or right.
 
Omigosh.....you got even his IP? How the heck?
That scares me, kinda. Isn't there such a thing as privacy, now? Apparently not.
Hmm. Well SSquared, do you think that God is open to interpretation? The words you read of God are open to what YOU want to believe they say? Or do you think God has ONE particular construction of Himself? Like, say, you read a passage in the Bible about God, and then go off on a quest to find God, and eventually, settle down with Islam. Another guy reads that same passage, goes off on a quest to find God, and eventually, settles down with Christianity. Who is right? They both sought God, but both came to different conclusions that are entirely opposite.
Leo Tolstoy wrote a story in Divine and Human, a collection of short stories, which was a translation of an Arabic poem. A man was worshiping an idol, praying to God. One angel saw him and got kinda mad, but I think God (or Gabriel, maybe the angel WAS Gabriel) said to the angel, "It doesn't really matter HOW he goes about doing it: his heart is in the right place, seeking after God."
Now that gave me some problems. That said, I suppose I could go gain up a cult and have mass suicide, telling them it led to God, and God told me personally that that's the way to heaven, and not Jesus Christ.
But hey. I don't think God's open to translation. He Himself says that He is "the same yesterday, today and forever." Immutable God. The one thing He can't do is change. But can you worship God from different facets of the same crystal? I don't think so...others do.
Someone told me that in Scriptures it's said that "to know yourself is to know God." I don't.....think that's in Scripture. I really don't. If someone (preferrably one wiser in the Word than I) could help me out with that one.
 
Ultima, I'm not quite sure how to respond. Things you mention are not really what I said. I did not say the scripture can be interpreted however I want it to be. I said "I try to discern which one I feel God is really trying to say." Discernment comes from the Holy Spirit, not from me.

The point isn't whether God's word is open to interpretation. In the thread, we started talking about reading outside material. I happen to read commentaries and other helpful books in my study of the scriptures. My point was, as I read these books, I don't just take the approach that these authors are automatically correct and I need to believe every point they make. I take what they say and see if it matches with what the scriptures say. In some cases, I admit, it's too hard for me to tell. But those are usually areas that aren't all too critical.
 
...my head hurts.
Yeah. I know what you're saying SSquared.
What I did was ask you a question, unrelated to what your post said. Sorry if it came off like a confused puppy who didn't know WHAT he just read.
My bad. I understood your point, and I botched what I was trying to ask.
Again: unrelated to your previous post, is God open to interpretation, as I gave with that Leo Tolstoy example? Just a question I have. Then, reading commentaries MIGHT come into play. We are to test the spirits, true enough, but if God's open to interpretation, then it really doesn't matter all that much, does it? I don't believe he is, but I want someone wiser to back me up with a Scripture. Commentaries on God may be messed up at times, but I have nothing against reading commentaries at all, or paper, or documents, or thoughts on what God says in His Word. None at all. I do it myself. I even think to myself about God's Word and its meaning: but as you said, it comes from the Holy Spirit.
 
Ohhhhhh...phew. I felt accused of something I never stated.
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I guess I feel God has one meaning behind biblical passages. And in God's eyes, it is not open to free interpretation. But...sometimes, we need help in understanding what God's Word says or means.

Interpretations can cause divisions and just plain wrong thoughts, eventually leading to cults. Even within the Evangelical churches, we have many different interpretations of passages. No instruments in worship. Baby baptism. Tounges. I certainly do not believe God wanted all this division. He can't possibly mean it to be interpreted both ways.

God's Word is unchanging. What was true yesterday is still true today.

I don't recall hearing "to know yourself is to know God".
 
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