Bible contains errors

[Que Pasa]

I was looking around for some resources on Moses one night, other than the usual bible verse that is. I came across this site, and I found some interesting claims made on it.

Errors in the Bible.

I wouldn't call most of these errors, just questions that are hard to answer. I'd like to see what those more skilled in apologetics than me come up with.

 

[CCGR]

these are not errors but complaints

 

[Kidan]

I'd call them whinings personally.  But here's what I would answer if someone was asking me these questions

Quote[/b] ]Woman From Ribbone (Genesis 2:21)
It is perhaps the most known tale. God created man from the ribbone of Eve. If God is capable of doing anything, then why did God need the ribbone from Adam? Certain Biblical versions will admit that the reasoning of God was that there is no more dust left (another idea I have a hard time swallowing). However, why would God need dust or a ribbone in the first place, if God can do anything? One may say that I cannot comprehend the intentions of God, but how can anyone believe something they do not understand?

God can do anything. He just chose to use what he had on hand.  The same principle applies in Software Engineering.  If we've made a component for 1 project and it works, use it elsewhere.  As far as I know, there is NO Biblical proof that "there is no more dust left", nor have I ever heard such.  It's nonsense. Now onto the question of how can someone believe something they do not understand?  I don't understand superstring theory (Physics theory concerning the makeup of the universe or something like that).  But I believe it.  Does that make me a fool?

Quote[/b] ]
Birth Pain (Genesis 3:16)
When God found Eve eating a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, he punished her, but with the utmost punishment: pain during childbearing! How could a passionate God do this, as well as have her children feel the same pain? I cannot conceive of such a deity, unless he is a tyrant, which the Biblical certainly is.

 There's a huge misconception about God.  That misconception is "He will protect those who sin."  Nowhere has it EVER said anything but otherwise, and also you must remember that first sin is passed down through the blood line.   We all have to pay the price for it, so why would Eve's daughter's be exempt from her punishement?

Quote[/b] ]
Flood
The flood covered the whole planet, killing thousands of people and animals. A massacre on unthinkable levels! Not only that, but in roughly four thousand years, the world population boomed from 8 people to 6 billion!!

 Not really.  I think Hitler killed more in his few years of power.  The thing is, this was a sick people.  only 8 people were worshipping God.  Only 8 people were upright and just.  Think of that, of all those thousands that were killed, not one of them was a decent or even nice  human being.  4000 years to go from 8 to 6 billion people?  And?  It's gone from 4 billion to 6 billion in the past 20 alone.

Quote[/b] ]
Vestiges
Why were men created with nipples by God? One may point out that they have the purpose of being pulled, pinched, pierced, and sucked, but that is instrumental. One may point out men have nipples because God created man in his image, but this brings up an even more disturbing question: Why does God have nipples!? Humans certainly do not need appendices or wisdom teeth, either.

 Why was man created with hair?  We don't really need it, it just kinda sits up there.  This is one of those things that falls under "Who Cares"  The other point of man being created in God's image.  That's not so much a physical image as it is a conceptual image.  God is made up of three parts, co-equal in power and glory, yet still the same:  Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.  This is repeated in human: Intellect, Body, Soul.  Also looking around in nature it's repeated quite often.
Time: Past, Present, Future.  MAtter:  Solid, Liquid, Gas.  The Day: Morning, Noon and Night.  The list goes on, it is this way for a reasion, and the Bible points it out.  It says that you can see God in nature.  Amazing eh?

Quote[/b] ]
Many Gods (Genesis 2:26, Genesis 3:22)
The early Jews were Polythiests. The Old Testament never denies the existence of other Gods and sometimes even acknowledges it (Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/eb....221.toc ) They believed in the existence of many Gods, but only worshipped one: Yahwe. This trend is seen in the Bible when God refers to himself as "us" and "we." Quite illogical that Christianity is based on a system of many Gods, but even more so unorthordox.

 This misconception stems from the numerous names for God the Jews had, as well as the fact that God is a Trinity.  He refers to Himself in the plural, because He's also talking to the Son and the Holy Ghost.  Yes the Bible says "You should have no other gods before Me."  Define God.  My definition would be something that takes a central place in your life and desires/receives/demands your worship.  By that definition anything can be a god, be it a car or Jehovah.

Quote[/b] ]
God Rest (Genesis 2:2)
On the seventh day, God rested! What a slothful, gluttonous being he is! Why would an omnipotent being need to rest? If he could do anything, then why rest? In fact, why would it take him a week to make a universe - one infested with murder, rape, plague, and war - if he is omnipotent?

 He's slothful because He took a day off?  We get upset if we don't get 2 days off a week, yet He takes off 1, since time began and you call him slothful.  But to answer your question, He rested so that We could have the Sabbath.  He rested to show us, that we can't run non-stop and that we need some downtime occassionally.  Even in the creation story there is a lesson to be learned about Human work ethic.  Going onto the "murder, rape, plague, and war."  These are products of man's depravity or just simple acts of nature.  Asking why these things happen is like asking why do earthquakes kill people?  The answer is, and always will be, "Because."  Why these things happen is irrelevant, HOW you react to them, that is what's important.

Quote[/b] ]
Cain and Abel
Cain killed Abel. This is another widely known story. After this happened, God said he would not kill Cain. However, if anyone DID kill Cain, they would get a punishment 7 times worse? I understand this not! Cain killed Abel - a man kills an innocent man - and he gets protection. If someone killed Cain - a man killing a guilty man - he gets a punishment seven times worse! Why is it more of a crime to kill a guilty man than it is to kill an innocent man and why in such huge proportion!?

 Because Cain asked for forgiveness and mercy.  Up above you whined about the rap and war and the unjustness of God for creating these things, yet here God shows mercy and you whine about that.  What does it take to make you happy? A song and Dance?

Quote[/b] ]
Adam's Testicles
Possibly considered perverse, but why does Adam have testicles? God created Adam without the intention of having him mate. If this is true, why is Adam equiped with testicles? I see no verses later indicating Adam having been given his manhood. Of course, possibly it was only God creating man in his own image, but then why would God have testicles? Such disturbing questions.

 This is probably the oddest question I have EVER come across.  Of course do tell me WHERE it says Adam wasn't going to mate?  He had already made things male and female, and why is it such a stretch that He would know to make Adam a male, because HE would end up making a female for Adam?

Quote[/b] ]
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, Chapter 12

Whenever you read Paine, also read this nice quote from The Age of Reason " had, besides, neither Bible nor Testament (It must be borne in mind that throughout this work Paine generaly means by "Bible" only the Old Testa[ment], and speaks of the N[e]w as the "Testament."--Editor.) to refer to, though I was writing against both; nor could I procure any; "  Paine admits in The Age of Reason that He didn't even HAVE a copy of EITHER testament when He whined about God.  How could he have truly known what he was writing against if he didn't have them?  But going on Paine writes "I have produced a work that no Bible Believer, though writing at his ease and with a Library of Church Books about him, can refute."  What arrogance on Paine's part.  I can only think he believe all Bible believer's are morons or worse.  Paine is a Diest, he believed nature is the word of god, and the Bible more or less hogwash.  His writing is conversion literature aimed at untrained Christians.  His writing is for the purpose of converting people from their religion to Paine's.  Always look at his writing in that light.

 

[Kidan]

On an entirely seperate note about that site.

Its writer supports:
pedophilia, polygamy, and many other odd (at least to me, though the 1st two are the most grevious) ideas

This individual does not want his claims refuted (as there is no way to get in touch with him, no feedback form, no email, and even a whois on his domain does not reveal a contact).  He gives generalities as specifics and does not look past his own prejudices to see what is going on.  IMO he probably has never read the entire Bible (or even a good poriton of it), but has seen Paine's (or some other humanist or diest writer's) views on it and has adopted them.  I was once told that "I should never read a book about a book."  I replied, "I should always read both."  

Remember folks, in Timothy we are told to be knowledgable of the Bible.  It is an declaritive sentence.  It is a command.  We should have knowledge. We should be able to answer questions when asked.  I think all Sunday School classes should be partially a debate class, and I think we should all read as much as we can get our hands on, for if we don't read, we can't make informed decisions and we can't effectively defend our faith.

 

[SSquared]

Ahhh.  Thanks for the quotes Kidan.  I got to read it without actually having gone to the site.

Just some stuff to add.

Quote[/b] ]Birth Pain (Genesis 3:16)

Actually, the verse says birth pain will be increased.  There is an implication birth was already going to have some aspect of pain involved.

Quote[/b] ]only 8 people were worshipping God.  Only 8 people were upright and just.

As far as Noah and family, I think ONLY Noah was found righteous.  He was the family representative, and as such, God allowed the others to be spared.  We see similar instances in the Bible, such as Rahab and her family.

Quote[/b] ]Many Gods (Genesis 2:26, Genesis 3:22)

Kidan nailed it.  God is a Trinity.  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  One thing to point out is sometimes when we see the name 'God' in the Bible, the original Hebrew is Elohim.  For example, the very beginning of the bible says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."  The actual word for God there is Elohim which does NOT mean ONE.  It is a plural for Eloahh, which is the singluar form of God.  I have even been told it goes further than just plural, it is some triple form of the word.  In other words, it represents 3.  I haven't actually read that anywhere, but one of my Bible teachers who studied Hebrew had mentioned it.  In any case, the word Elohim is representing more than one.

As far as arguments, those are some of the strangest and silliest I have ever seen.

Que Pasa.  What type of stuff on Moses are you looking for?  What do you mean by "the usual bible verse"?

 

[CCGR]

As for the made in Gods image I always believed that to be a spiritual image. Who cares if God had the same appendages we do!

 

[[7F]LarryBoy]

Returning to the rib, God created Eve from Adam's rib because that's the way He wanted to do it. He did it for a purpose, so that woman was created from man, and not from dust. Maybe He did this to show that woman would be subject to man's authority? Or that man and woman belonged to each other?

Remember, God never does anything accidentally, or because that's the best He could do. God does everything with a firm purpose, following His plan and His nature.

It like when ppl ask the question, "If God is all-powerful, and can do anything, could he create a rock so massive, even He couldn't lift it?"

This is an example of our puny, finite human minds trying to put a limit on God. This is impossible. It is because we do not understand the nature of God that we ask questions like this. It isn't in God's nature to jump through human hoops.

I think the real answer is: God won't, because it's not His nature to do so.

Yeah....I'm just rambling here.....ouch, this is giving me a headache.....

 

[Kidan]

SSquared no problem, quoting the document seemed the easiest way to effectively get the point across.

Quote[/b] ]As far as Noah and family, I think ONLY Noah was found righteous

 I think you are correct on that assumption.  Although I would assume that since Noah was a just and righteous man, he would have raised his sons to be the same.  To me that would fall under the just and righteous part also.


LarryBoy

Quote[/b] ]Maybe He did this to show that woman would be subject to man's authority? Or that man and woman belonged to each other?

 Woman wasn't subject to man's authority until after the fall.  More than likely it is so that man will know that a man and a woman (note singular) belong togethor.  If memory serves Adam even says as much after God presents the woman to him.

Quote[/b] ]God won't, because it's not His nature to do so.

 I think this should go alongside quotes such as "Why? Because."  There are things God does.  There are things God does not do.  Yet no matter what God does or does not do, what is ALWAYS most important is how WE react to it.  Do we let it destroy us, crumbling our faith, or do we grow from it, learn more about God, about ourselves, learn to trust in Him more.

/me gets off soapbox

 

[Tom Kazansky]

A website called "punkerslut.com" does not really indicate a credible source worthy of my attention.  Furthermore, this guy's arguments don't make sense.  I mean seriously, if God created mathematical laws that can't be broken (angles in a triangle must add up to be 180 degrees, and this is ALWAYS true), what's wrong with Him using a rib to create Eve?  I'd respond to his other "arguments" but it would be a waste of my time.

 

[Kidan]

See Tom, that's a point where you and I would have to disagree. All questions and or attacks against Christianity should be answered. While, imo, this guy shows his ignorance of Biblical precepts, while at the same time showing an even greater ignorance of Biblical scripture, he has questions, and they should be answered. My main arguement with his site is the lack of content. On my website, I have a guestbook/forum, I give out my email address in numerous places. The point is, I make myself available to be questioned on the beliefs I write on my site. That is why I took the time to answer these questions, even though, one of them is the oddest (and stupidist btw) question I have ever come across.

Besides anything that makes you think, even if it's just to laugh at it for a second, is always worth the time.

 

[SSquared]

Quote[/b] ] I think you are correct on that assumption.  Although I would assume that since Noah was a just and righteous man, he would have raised his sons to be the same.  To me that would fall under the just and righteous part also.

You put forth an interesting point, since the bible doesn't necessarily say they were NOT righteous.  But, in the NAS, it states "you ALONE are righteous before Me", making it clearly a reference to Noah.  Many other translations leave out 'alone' which makes it a little more difficult to make 'you' mean strictly Noah.  Soon after all this takes place, Ham (actually his son Canaan) is cursed, because of Ham's disregard for his father.

Why do you think Noah must have raised his sons righteous?  We see many examples of righteous people who's children were quite horrible.  In 1st Samuel, there is both Eli (and his wicked sons) and Samuel (and his sons).  And David, who had a strong heart for God, didn't have the greatest children either.  His son Absalom was an absolute horror.

Quote[/b] ]A website called "punkerslut.com"

Hahaha.  EXACTLY why I didn't want to check out the site and was thankful for Kidan's contribution.

 

[Kidan]

SSquared, that's good point. I guess I always assumed since the sons were saved, they had at least a portion of Noah's righteousness.

 

[ToJ | Dead_Aim]

After reading the site I have come to the conclusion that this guy is having a big misconception about the Bible and needs to take a step back and observe the situation. If he is a Christian I feel he needs to stop doubting the Bible. The Bible is God's word and if you doubt God's word you doubt God. Now I know we all have doubts that Satan puts in our head but we must overcome. I think this guy needs to overcome. Im gonna pray for him.

 

[Kidan]

After reading his site, I can tell you he's not a Christain.

He says so in many of his essays. He is a humanist or diest (basically worships himself and/or nature)

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Okay I refuse to read any of the other posts, in case that they say my own opinions...
Firstly, this ain't errors: it's personal complaints. Far from errors. "Punkerslut" is gonna get a little talking-to quite soon...
All right.
Let's start.
An omnipotent God using a ribbone means God's not all-powerful? What sort of idiot wrote this anyhow?
Let's see here. First off, how did God create the world? He spoke it into existence. How did God create man? He gave him shape, then breathed life into him. He formed man of dust, and woman of man's bone. Is that too hard to understand? Or is walking on water, too, a sign of impotency in an omnipotent God? I mean, why walk on water? Couldn't an almight God walk on the sky? I mean, geez, what kind of God limits Himself to water?
And here's the clincher of the Moron of the Year Award:

"It is perhaps the most known tale. God created man from the ribbone of Eve. If God is capable of doing anything, then why did God need the ribbone from Adam?"
....................(snicker).............God created Adam from Eve? When, the most well-known tale says that God created Eve from Adam? "...then why did God need the ribbone from Adam?" YOU JUST SAID HE CREATED ADAM FROM EVE! WHAT RIBBONE?! MORON!

Point 2: Childbirth pain is the utmost punishment (I think I detect a sense of sarcasm here, or either a vapid void of empty-headedness)? That's hardly true...but whatever floats her boat. All right. God punished Eve with childbearing pains. The whole world's gonna suffer, one way or another. Adam gets to sweat it out toiling the ground (when he had Eden in the hand). Eve gets to sweat it out pumping out the runts. The animals get to sweat it out being killed for food, uses and protection. The plants get to sweat it out being cut up for eating, baked in the heat, or drowned in water (maybe even left alone). The waters are evaporated and recycled...yech, right? The universe in general is running down.
This is the work of a tyrant? If anything, I would say it is the work of US, the tyrants, the tyrants who deny that God exists. The tyrants who say it's okay to kill the kids (so as to reduce on that whole painful childbearing thing). God a tyrant for punishing us? Hardly...may we rebel against our parents, then!
Point 2 shot down...
Umm.....an error of the Bible includes the population skyrocketing? I hope the US Census people have some Pretty dern good explanations to give me on this whole thing with people sprouting up out of holes (credit to Gimli of "The Two Towers" flick)...(snicker, again). An error of the Bible includes a documentation of a worldwide castastrophe? Dang, I hope Hollywood has some explanations for all those "end of the world" movies they pump out left and right, Armageddon, The Core, End of Days, The Sixth Day, The Omen, Rosemary's Baby...dang these error-ific people! Perhaps, if the person actually read the passage (a more well-known record of the Bible than Adam being taken from Eve's ribbone I think, hehehe), he would actually see that, umm, God punished the entire world for the corruption they were entering, and also that the sole family to survive was the single righteous family left around (I also think perhaps the only undefiled with those Nephilim and whole "Sons of God" thing...I also think He wiped the world out to prevent demons from staining the bloodline of man, and thus of Christ (imagine Christ the Son of God and a half-demon?!), and forcing God to wipe out ALL of mankind.
Point 3 attacked and brought down by the World War I Flying Ace...
I, umm, really don't know...in that case why did God create skin? The same thing can happen to it. Be scraped, torn, pinched, pulled, mutilated, pierced.....dang that fallacy that is God (That's SARCASM there, God)! It's disturbing that God has nipples? Is it disturbing that Energizer AA batteries do, too (although not in the same sense)? Is it disturbing that your parents do, too? I think not. That's like asking why God included eyes, such needless vestiges (no organ is vestigial, not even the lowly appendix). I mean, God could have given us skin sensors to detect motion...but He didn't.
Point 4 washed out...
God is 3 in one...that's not poletheism. Also the Bible refers to false gods quite often, and that people make their own idols to their own gods (Mammon, money, get it? Ba-al, life, right? Thor, thunder, clouds and lightning. Zeus, the lord of us all, and the keeper of lightning.). Scriptures also say that behind every idol is a demon...ever think of it that way? And there is demon worship, too.
What kind of slothful, gluttonous being would take the time of day to create you, you smartmouth, brainless bum?! Sorry...it's true. And, umm, He didn't create the universe infested with rape, plague, murder and war...man did that all on his lonesome. God created a perfect everything: then man screwed it up.
Do you see God raping you? No...you see a man/woman on top of you doing that. Do you see God stabbing you through the kidney, and then slitting your throat? Nope. That's man. Do you see God marching to war with the tanks? Nope, that's man. Do you see God casting a plague of disease on you (well, technically, neither do you see man, although some diseases are set free by man, and carried by man to man, so technically, also, nope, not God: man)
Again and again, dude! You're worse than Damar...
Why is a crime for you to take the law into your hands? You're not of the law: you're under the law. You have no right to do as you see fit: that's vigilantism, or plain crime. That's against the law. If I killed Cain, I'm a vigilante/or murderer, both against the law. Now I'm busted.
Cain did wrong: God gave him a chance to live, and he did, and had all his kids, too.
AND if you note: Lamech said that if Cain was to be punished 7 times, then he himself 77 times...and as far as we know, God didn't mark him...so again, your case is defeated.
God, umm, DID create Adam with the intention of giving him a mate...yeah. He did. First off, he makes animals two of a kind (so they get to mate). Then, Adam's lonely. So God gives him the companion he wants to help him out in life. That would be the woman. Although, in your illogical case, it would be Adam who was created for Eve...sorry dude check your work first.
Such disturbing imagery...

 

[SLAM]

Okay, how about this? Let's say you have a traditional board game. No rules, controls or boundaries for you. You have total control over it with no limits. What's going to happen? NOTHING! Unless you begin creating some systems of order and creating rules for yourself, the all-powerful master of the board, to follow, nothing will be interesting and nothing will happen.

Now, why does God do anything the way He does if He's all-powerful?

 

[Kidan]

Slam--i like that analogy

 

[Ultima Avatar]

SLAM you so stole that from what I just said! That ain't cool!
Just playing with ya dude.
Interesting book the dude's got up on his site: Atheos. Long one, too. Gad, it's revolting, but he's intellectual, and still contains logical errors.
Capitalism is worse than Communism? Communism is successfully possible?
For one, his case for the latter is rather pathetic, and if one actually studies Communism and its effects, one can see that it is totally and completely illogical to perform and impossible to maintain (except by tyranny).

 

[MaxX]

God doesnt have a physical image. We were made in His spiritual image. At least that's the way I take it.

I might do a critique of my own if I find time, but thsi guy really sounds like he needs to get a life.

 

[Que Pasa]

I gave you that website because of my boss, who is can somehow argue any point mindlessly and stubbornly, referenced it almost like he created it. Although every arguement he presented there was utterly outrageous (lazy God??), he managed to discredit me, eventually resorting to something that sounded like I'm your boss, shut up go back to work. I'm leaving that job ASAP. I'm utterly horrible when it comes to apologetics, but I'm learning. Thanks for the insight, especially you Kidan.