Atheism: Is It a Plausible Worldview?

[Kidan]

medjai--at no point did I say otherwise. but you do have to realize, that humans are not naturally moral beings. it is always something imposed upon us (by parents, society, etc.). The only thing about being 'good' while a atheist, is what defines good. is it good for you, good for society, good for your neighbor? These are things that can and will be at odds with one another. As a Christian, I do good, I live a good life, and I have a set standard for what defines good. Now a lot of that set standard is in the general conciousness (at least in the western world) as 'good' but there are things that are acceptable and deemed 'good' for the world, that I see as evil as a CHristian.

Big J--I was answering your question. You asked, what does it take to be saved. At no time did I say you were never a Christian. You asked, I answered.

Why are kids born with disablities? Because this is a fallen world. at no point in time did God ever say 'All of ADam's children shall be born perfectly" Besides the WHY things happen is not as important as HOW you react to what happens.

I do not believe in the works deity. That's other religions (Budhism, Islam, etc). If I'm right, salvation is only attained through the blood of Christ. Not through any work that we have done.

 

[Medjai]

To say we are naturally immoral is absurd.

Perhaps you could argue that we are in fact naturally immoral, yet only with the standing presupposition that we are 'created' by a higher being that made us that way.

Yet I follow the evolutionary model of life and feel that such a thing as morality comes naturally. It has been shown that primates even have a moral code. The first step towards a 'higher' morality (a complex system of ethical behaviors) is that of hierarchy. Such as the alpha male in a wolf pack, you defy him and you get torn up. Thus you refrain from defying him.

In other words, mankind possesses common sense. Further, we hold that which are known as emotions. When a 'loved' one dies, I mourn the loss of him/her.

To say that we are naturally immoral insinuates that without God, there is no means of a generally agreed upon consensus of morality. I feel that you were passively hinting at this and you should have been more direct... You claim that a child will not know right from wrong unless he/she is 'taught' it, this is entirely untrue, perhaps they will be confused on the most complex of issues but on things as basic as refraining from unprovoked murder, they are sufficiently equipped with a little something known as instinct.

The 'moral code' as presented by the ten commandments is in no way 'original'. In fact they copied these 'codes of conduct' from other civilizations, yet I don't blame them as the ideas such as not killing people are rather simple.

Further, you claim to have a set standard of morality yet when convenient, such a thing can be bent or even broken. This is a Biblical 'fact', things like turning the other cheek are often ignored, in fact so is that of murder. In other words, you follow the idea of 'divine command'.

Anyone who needs a book to tell them how to act is hardly a person at all.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (Kidan @ Sep. 27 2003,11:58)]Big J--I was answering your question.  You asked, what does it take to be saved.  At no time did I say you were never a Christian.  You asked, I answered.

My apologies.

I just saw the answer and...thought it was a comment. My bad.

Thanks for the other answers as well.

On the nature of morality...

I do not think any person is born either evil or good. My belief is that we are animals, albeit highly intelligent ones. Do you need a promise of everlasting life to do "good?" I believe that when you die, you are dead, yet, I would not murder someone.

Why not? Well, society holds that murder is wrong. Why? Because it is depriving someone of something. Why is that wrong? Because I would not want someone to take my stuff; thus murder and stealing is "wrong."

I did that with no promises of vengence from god if I do wrong, and no hope of a reward in the afterlife if I do right.