Any regrets

[Gandhi]

With all the discussions about heaven, and y were we created I thought of something.
If u die and u found out that there is no heaven or hell and u were wrong would u have any regrets. Would u wish u tried stuff u never had a chance to do.

I thought about myself and thought what if I was wrong and there was a such thing as heaven and hell, I'm fine going to hell. I fliped the coin and called the wrong side. I can live (burn) with that.

 

[Eon]

I agree. I made the best call with the information presented to me, and if I go down then I go down swinging. At least I can look God in the eye and tell him to his face that playing games with people's salvation is a pretty sick prospect.

To be honest, when I think of the Christian God these days I always have the Angel Islington from Neverwhere in mind.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I agree. I made the best call with the information presented to me, and if I go down then I go down swinging. At least I can look God in the eye and tell him to his face that playing games with people's salvation is a pretty sick prospect.

Ditto that.

I may play the occasional round of Roulette, but I'm not about to sell myself out and play Pascal's Wager.

 

[Marcylene]

To be honest, when I think of the Christian God these days I always have the Angel Islington from Neverwhere in mind.

I believe this is the biggest problem...our way of perceiving God. We all tend to have preconceived notions, some stemming from our earthly homes not being the picture of Heaven that they should be. In addition, our natural flesh is very pessimistic. We read God's Word and seem to blindly pass His message of Love and see the side we consider dark. If we would strive to see Him as He truly is, it would be a pleasure to serve Him. Who in their right mind would want to love, attempt to serve or get to know the neverwhere angel?
Would I have any regrets? Yes, I would regret that I would never see the One that I have striven with my all through the passing years to love more and more. Aside from that, I don't think loving others and living as I feel God would have me live has done anything but work out for my very own good. No, not one single, solitary regret. I feel my life has been full of a joy, knowing that He does exist and has my best interest at heart, even in my darkest hours...even when I may not understand my trials.

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10

 

[Dark Virtue]

We read God's Word and seem to blindly pass His message of Love and see the side we consider dark.

Marcy, don't you think it's also true that some Christians turn a blind eye to the darker side of God and concentrate only on what they perceive as good? The one that murdered infants, issued plagues and sought the destruction of the entire human race?

The God of the Bible is a multifaceted character, but many rarely want to take the bad with the good.

 

[Dark Virtue]

This is not a question i would even entertain. I personally know for sure God exists..i know for sure there is a heaven and hell..i know for sure i am going to heaven..i know for sure that hell is real and that folks are going to go there. I have read the word..i ahve experienced God personally..nothing is going to change it for me. I pray for those who have not experienced God fully and/or have not accepted His Son as Lord and Savior..

Is this something you can explain to the rest of us?

How are you SURE?

How have you personally experienced God?

You said, "nothing is going to change it for me. I pray for those who have not experienced God fully and/or have not accepted His Son as Lord and Savior.."

You admit to not wanting to change, no matter what, but you expect nonbelievers to do so and accept your God? That's not exactly fair is it?

 

[Marcylene]

Marcy, don't you think it's also true that some Christians turn a blind eye to the darker side of God and concentrate only on what they perceive as good? The one that murdered infants, issued plagues and sought the destruction of the entire human race?

The God of the Bible is a multifaceted character, but many rarely want to take the bad with the good.

Yes, and I am in hopes that is a part of Love! I tend to be that way towards life in general, I try to see the good in everything and everyone. As far as his "darker" side, I am glad I have a God that can go to battle for me. Yes, yes, Pharaoh's heart was hardened, but I still believe that was his freewill choice. Pharaoh would have had it no other way.
I have said before He resembles the finest multifaceted diamond in His character. DV, I myself struggle with some things of God, that is why I explained that "we" tend to have our own notions about Him. A God in the box if you will. I have to ask myself this, "Am I serving the true and living God?" For me, as much as I have been blessed and surrounded by love, I still cannot imagine His great, unconditional, mercies new every morning, Love for me. Nor can I comprehend that He is diligently working every detail of my life out for my own good and preparing me for my Heavenly home! Nevertheless, 'tis true
As my faith grows, that through reading and hearing the Word, I just know it is true within my heart. I see reminders of Him daily, those things DV, that go far beyond mere coincidence. The Bible promises that if we draw nigh to Him He will draw nigh to us, as any Love relationship worth having, it takes effort.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. James 4:8

 

[[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff]

Quick answer to original question: No.

Better answer: If I'm wrong, what have I lost? I'm very happy living my life the way I do. If we assume that I'm delusional about my certainty of salvation, and at the end, there is nothing... I've lived my life without a LOT of worry, and if the worst of my problems is dealing with an "I told you so" in the after-life from DV and Eon (assuming our souls continue to live in some sort of ethereal realm), then so be it.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

No, i would still benefit from being:

honest, generous, kind, and etc...

and morals... i'll bring that up.

 

[Jericho_falls]

I would like to comment on those who would deem they can live with Hell. Your preconception of Hell is very poor. Living and Hell do not walk hand in hand because Hell is death.

Jesus commonly described it as having weeping and gnashing of teeth. The best description I've heard of "gnashing of teeth" is when a man was backing out of his driveway and felt a "thump" as if he had run over something. He thought it was a tricycle or something so he pulled forward again, got out of his car and went to see. What he found was his three year old son dead and mangled from his own actions. He knelt over his boy and wept and "gnashed", that is he clentched his teeth and let out the most agonising sound his body could make. Hell is the most extreme sorrow.

Hell is also described as the lake of fire, there will be concious buring pain. You will not have a body designed for pleasure anymore, you will have a body designed to receive pain 24/7. There will be no end to the pain, no light at the end of the tunnel, no light at all since it is called the "outer darkness."

Some also say that Hell is the absence of God. I do not believe this. Hell is the pure presence of God's justice and wrath poured out on you. You will be able to look God in the eye eh? I don't think so, you will be dreadfully aware that He is right and you purposefully rejected Him and thus are utterly wrong and deserving of the punishment of His wrath. You will have sorrow, pain, and irrepressible guilt.

As to the origional question, Paul said if Christ did not rise from the dead we Christians of all people are to be most pittied. I'm staking my whole life on the cross. Big stakes.

 

[Eon]

Look at it this way - if you guys are wrong you have a whole lot more to gnash about than I do. I have lived a reasonably good life, I've not brought harm to others, I have not exercised my hate. Within reason I have stayed my wrath and let my generosity go forth.

I feel reasonably justified in the decisions I have made.

I have also tried to be a good Christian and I failed. I couldn't blindly swallow it down, I couldn't tell or live a lie week after week. That's how it felt to me - like poison that I kept trying to swallow and kept vomitting out.

And that's not my fault. I've reached halfway and there are no hands there waiting for me. I've searched, knocked and done all the other things you're supposed to do. So unless I am physically compelled otherwise, yes I will look God in the eye. What would I have to lose? Is he going to repent of my eternal punishment if I take this one last chance to grovel and kowtow? No, he is not. I am doomed anyway, and if dignity is the only thing I can salvage, then I'll salvage that much - and walk to my punishment, head held high.

Because no chains can imprison the mind that refuses to be a slave.

 

[Dark Virtue]

As far as his "darker" side, I am glad I have a God that can go to battle for me.

Just a point of clarification.

God didn't do battle on behalf of Man, God did battle AGAINST Man.

 

[Dark Virtue]

You betcha i am not open to change...and jsut looking at things logically..netiher should anyone else.

So how do you expect a nonbeliever to be open to accepting Christianity?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quick answer to original question: No.

Better answer: If I'm wrong, what have I lost? I'm very happy living my life the way I do. If we assume that I'm delusional about my certainty of salvation, and at the end, there is nothing... I've lived my life without a LOT of worry, and if the worst of my problems is dealing with an "I told you so" in the after-life from DV and Eon (assuming our souls continue to live in some sort of ethereal realm), then so be it.

That's Pascal's Wager in a nutshell.

I'm going to assume you are unaware of the logical problems associated with that theory.

 

[Dark Virtue]

No, i would still benefit from being:

honest, generous, kind, and etc...

and morals... i'll bring that up.

Guess what?

NonChristians are also honest, generous, kind and have high morals.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I would like to comment on those who would deem they can live with Hell. Your preconception of Hell is very poor. Living and Hell do not walk hand in hand because Hell is death.

Jesus commonly described it as having weeping and gnashing of teeth. The best description I've heard of "gnashing of teeth" is when a man was backing out of his driveway and felt a "thump" as if he had run over something. He thought it was a tricycle or something so he pulled forward again, got out of his car and went to see. What he found was his three year old son dead and mangled from his own actions. He knelt over his boy and wept and "gnashed", that is he clentched his teeth and let out the most agonising sound his body could make. Hell is the most extreme sorrow.

Hell is also described as the lake of fire, there will be concious buring pain. You will not have a body designed for pleasure anymore, you will have a body designed to receive pain 24/7. There will be no end to the pain, no light at the end of the tunnel, no light at all since it is called the "outer darkness."

Some also say that Hell is the absence of God. I do not believe this. Hell is the pure presence of God's justice and wrath poured out on you. You will be able to look God in the eye eh? I don't think so, you will be dreadfully aware that He is right and you purposefully rejected Him and thus are utterly wrong and deserving of the punishment of His wrath. You will have sorrow, pain, and irrepressible guilt.

As to the origional question, Paul said if Christ did not rise from the dead we Christians of all people are to be most pittied. I'm staking my whole life on the cross. Big stakes.

No offense, but I'm not sure YOU understand what Hell is all about. Are you taking into consideration the translation issues of Hades, Gehenna, Sheol and Tartarus?

I hate rehashing all these arguments, we had great threads that covered all this stuff before.

The reason I say this is because there isn't a unified agreement WITHIN Christianity that defines Hell. Some believe as you do, while others believe Hell is simply being apart from God.

As in many things Christian, why do you believe YOUR interpretation is better than someone else's?

 

[Gandhi]

Well atleast everyone is answering the way I expected them too. I think its important ot stand strong in your beliefs.
I'm not afrraid of hell because I don't believe in it anymore. To me its like the boggie man and santa clause, I believed it was true when I was a kid but not now. I figure if I can live with everything happening over here on earth, if I'm wrong hell would be a nothing. Plus I've tried hard to believe in the christian god but as Eon said I don't want to fake it.

No, i would still benefit from being:

honest, generous, kind, and etc...

and morals... i'll bring that up.

By your post your indicating that those qualities can only be found by being christian. Do u believe that if u wern't a christian u wouldn't have all those qualities.

 

[[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff]

That's Pascal's Wager in a nutshell.

I'm going to assume you are unaware of the logical problems associated with that theory.

From: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/#1

A number of authors who have been otherwise critical of the Wager have explicitly conceded that the Wager is valid — e.g. Mackie 1982, Rescher 1985, Mougin and Sober 1994, and most emphatically, Hacking 1972. That is, these authors agree with Pascal that wagering for God really is rationally mandated by Pascal's decision matrix in tandem with positive probability for God's existence, and the decision theoretic account of rational action.

However, Duff 1986 and Hájek 2003 argue that the argument is in fact invalid. Their point is that there are strategies besides wagering for God that also have infinite expectation — namely, mixed strategies, whereby you do not wager for or against God outright, but rather choose which of these actions to perform on the basis of the outcome of some chance device.

DV, before you start talking about logical problems associated with the theory, please note that many respected philosophers also believe that the Wager is valid. I came to Jesus for other reasons, but Gandhi asked if I would have any regrets... I'm not sure why you believe that I, for some reason, must be uninformed simply because we disagree on the validity of an argument, or what that has to do with Gandhi's original question. Do you believe that all Christians must be uninformed, or is that simply a function of the fact that so many Christians have really never taken the time to examine their own beliefs?

 

[Arkanjel]

I guess that my only real regret before leaving this realm and passing to the next is that I didnt let God work on me sooner. I wish that I would have let Him lead my life a lot sooner, cause it would have been a whole lot more enjoyable. I have never seen so many proofs of God existence than when I finally gave up the reigns and let Him lead me down the path. Persistant worries about all things earthly are a thing of the past, now I just "Let go, and let God!"

 

[Avesther]

With all the discussions about heaven, and y were we created I thought of something.
If u die and u found out that there is no heaven or hell and u were wrong would u have any regrets. Would u wish u tried stuff u never had a chance to do.

I thought about myself and thought what if I was wrong and there was a such thing as heaven and hell, I'm fine going to hell. I fliped the coin and called the wrong side. I can live (burn) with that.

If I were to die, and there is no heavan or hell, basically no afterlife, how, praytell, would I expereince regret? Being a Christian has not stopped me from enjoying life to the fullest. I've done tonnes of stuff most people cringe at the thought of doing. The only things in life I haven't experienced is stuff that, no matter how you cut it, is harmful to society or harmful to others.

Now, why should I have any regrets for the life I lead? Tell me one thing I should be able to experience (that is beneficial to myself, my neighbours and society) that I haven't been able to because I choose to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ?

I've done:

White water rafting, flown an airplane, participated in a plethora of xtreme sports, I play games, I am married (and enjoy all the benefits and perks of it), I have a family, I have material wealth, I own a business, I employee people, I watch movies and TV, I read books, I listen to music, I enjoy art, I stand up for my rights, I pay taxes and complain about it, I donate money to many foundations, I drive a car, I ride the public transit system, I ski (water and on the snow), I have pets, I ride a bike, I complain about the weather, I am disappointed by priests who do not live and walk by faith, I am outraged by the actions and decisions of those who perpetate crimes against society.

Come now, what do you mean, what would I have done differently?


Do mean, would I have stolen a car? Well, you don't need to be a christian to have the convictions that theft is wrong and harmful to society?

Do mean, would I have had an affair on my wife? That would be disrespectful to her as a person, and again, you don't need to be christian to realize that having an affair is against the basic tenants of love.

How about, bungy jumping? Well, because I didn't list it, doesn't mean I haven't done it.

How about, purchasing a kick butt stereo system? I already did, and now that my basement is almost completed, I will be purchasing a kick butt HDTV Sony Grand Wega to go with it.

I'm still searching the bible for the commandment: Thou shalt be a prune and have no fun, be a hermit and live in poverty. Haven't found it yet. I know alot of non-believing friends who live the life that most people associate with Christians, and they work too hard to maintain it. But my table is so full, its overflowing. I have people lined up asking for the scraps that fall off the table because even my scraps are better then they work hard for.


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