Pelagrin
Member
First of all, we do have free will. We are not robots and can choose stuff like:
Rather, I'd like to see what you all think about free will versus election. I was always taught at a child that we have a free will and that we choose Christ.
God is soverign and omniscient. Yes? I believe that he is. However, if I acknowledge that he is soverign and omniscient, then how can I truely have a free will to choose Him? He knew before I was created whether I would "choose" Him or not. So did I actually have a choice? The Bible actually makes it appear that I can not choose him, but that he actually chooses me.
Jesus says that he is the only way to the Father, that he chooses us rathern than us choosing him, and that we reach him by being drawn by the Father.
Jesus said...
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." John 15:16
In Acts, Luke wrote that those who were appoited to eternal life believed.
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 14:8
Paul wrote about predestination in Ephesians and Romans.
"...even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will..." Ephesians 1:4-5
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" Ephesians 1:11
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:28-30
"What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills." Romans 9:14-18
Paul also wrote in Romans that we were slaves to sin, but we are now slave to righteousness.
"But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness." Romans 6:17-18
What are your thoughts? Do we choose God? Can we choose God?
- do I go to work today?
- do I get myself a coffee this morning?
- what will I wear today?
- etc.
Rather, I'd like to see what you all think about free will versus election. I was always taught at a child that we have a free will and that we choose Christ.
God is soverign and omniscient. Yes? I believe that he is. However, if I acknowledge that he is soverign and omniscient, then how can I truely have a free will to choose Him? He knew before I was created whether I would "choose" Him or not. So did I actually have a choice? The Bible actually makes it appear that I can not choose him, but that he actually chooses me.
Jesus says that he is the only way to the Father, that he chooses us rathern than us choosing him, and that we reach him by being drawn by the Father.
Jesus said...
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." John 15:16
In Acts, Luke wrote that those who were appoited to eternal life believed.
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 14:8
Paul wrote about predestination in Ephesians and Romans.
"...even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will..." Ephesians 1:4-5
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" Ephesians 1:11
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:28-30
"What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills." Romans 9:14-18
Paul also wrote in Romans that we were slaves to sin, but we are now slave to righteousness.
"But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness." Romans 6:17-18
What are your thoughts? Do we choose God? Can we choose God?