err srry DV didt get a chance sunday. i prolly will in the next week. this has been on my mind though so i havent forgotten
You're not a true believer unless you can...
- Thread starter Dark Virtue
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Dark Virtue
New Member
No prob, I appreciate the effort!
SLNT_FIR
New Member
aha... u are very funny. maybe i should call u insane for posting like twice as much as me.
Avesther
New Member
The signs accompany believers. Believers don't control them.
Dark Virtue
New Member
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Explain to me what accompany means in this context then.
I understand this to mean that believers will be able to perform these works. Who is Christ talking about when he says THEY will...? In this context, I took THEY to mean THOSE WHO BELIEVE, in other words those who believe in and are followers of Christ.
Explain to me what accompany means in this context then.
I understand this to mean that believers will be able to perform these works. Who is Christ talking about when he says THEY will...? In this context, I took THEY to mean THOSE WHO BELIEVE, in other words those who believe in and are followers of Christ.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Byblos, you're going to have to expound on that.
You said "WE". That means that you can do them too. What miracles have you performed?
You said "WE". That means that you can do them too. What miracles have you performed?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Ah, so now you're backtracking and claiming this is done through prayer.
Please show me where prayer is indicated here.
[b said:
Please show me where prayer is indicated here.
I didnt backtrack... do you htink they are doing these things without Gods help? It says when they place hands on the people they wll be healed, God heals the sick not a human. God prevents the poison from killing them not their immune system. God teaches their hearts the languages not themselves,
I know poeple that know unkown languages out of nowhere. Ive known people to be healed through us saints! We didnt do it, but it was done through us and we have caused it to be done, but God is still responsable. We can be the cause of miracles but not the one doing them.
I know poeple that know unkown languages out of nowhere. Ive known people to be healed through us saints! We didnt do it, but it was done through us and we have caused it to be done, but God is still responsable. We can be the cause of miracles but not the one doing them.
Dark Virtue
New Member
That verse claims that EVERY follower can perform those miracles, not a few. Not I heard from so and so that so and so did so and so.
Dark Virtue
New Member
First it was WE and now it's THEY.
Are you saying that you can cast out demons, speak in new tongues, handle snakes and poison without any ill effects and lay your hands on people and heal them?
Are you saying that you can cast out demons, speak in new tongues, handle snakes and poison without any ill effects and lay your hands on people and heal them?
Genesis1315
Ladies
Sorry DV, I may be preaching a bit on this one. Hex, to expand on your post…
Think about a human body for instance. All parts of the body work together towards a single goal - our eyes see and our ears hear. We may use these two parts of our body to recognize a thunderstorm is coming and it would be a good idea to have our feet to move the body to shelter. The brain controls all.
Likewise, when one has accepted Christ, he is now a part of the body of believers. Christ is the head, controlling the movement of the body. We are given certain things that we can do, as each part of the body has specific tasks assigned to it. We may not be able to do everything the entire body does. That does not change the fact that we have received salvation through Jesus Christ.
Looking into this verse a little more,
1. Those who are saved are grouped together, hence the they later in the verses.
2. Through Christ, we/they have authority over demons. God gave it to us.
3. Speaking in new languages is a gift from God, not all receive this gift.
4. We/They will pick up snakes. I am not sure this is referring to literal snakes, like the ones that slither on the ground.
5. If we/they should drink anything deadly….showing God’s protection of us. Please note: IF. We should not go around ingesting poison just to prove God’s whatever or for any other reason. "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' "
6. Lay hands on the sick and we/they…Another gift from God. Not all receive this gift.
It seems like the only thing really needed to be a believer according to this verse is to believe and be baptized. Those who are not believers are actually supposed to know us by the love we show to all.
Think about a human body for instance. All parts of the body work together towards a single goal - our eyes see and our ears hear. We may use these two parts of our body to recognize a thunderstorm is coming and it would be a good idea to have our feet to move the body to shelter. The brain controls all.
Likewise, when one has accepted Christ, he is now a part of the body of believers. Christ is the head, controlling the movement of the body. We are given certain things that we can do, as each part of the body has specific tasks assigned to it. We may not be able to do everything the entire body does. That does not change the fact that we have received salvation through Jesus Christ.
[b said:
Looking into this verse a little more,
1. Those who are saved are grouped together, hence the they later in the verses.
2. Through Christ, we/they have authority over demons. God gave it to us.
3. Speaking in new languages is a gift from God, not all receive this gift.
4. We/They will pick up snakes. I am not sure this is referring to literal snakes, like the ones that slither on the ground.
5. If we/they should drink anything deadly….showing God’s protection of us. Please note: IF. We should not go around ingesting poison just to prove God’s whatever or for any other reason. "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' "
6. Lay hands on the sick and we/they…Another gift from God. Not all receive this gift.
It seems like the only thing really needed to be a believer according to this verse is to believe and be baptized. Those who are not believers are actually supposed to know us by the love we show to all.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Let's be simple here.
Gen, you say that the verse refers to those only that were present in front of Christ as he was speaking? In your list of points you point to them and then refer to we. Which is it? Byblos asserts that EVERY believer has these abilities.
Points 2&3) If you assert that God gave believers the gift of authority over demons, through Christ, then why, in the next point do you asset that only a few believers have the gift of speaking in tongues?
Points 4&5) I believe this is referring to literal snakes. Notice that the verse does not say IF they pick up snakes, it simply says THEY WILL. As for drinking anything deadly, I understand not wanting to tempt God. So this verse asserts that if a believer ingests anything deadly by accident, they have nothing to fear. Would you be willing to take a guess as to how many "believers" die every year from poisoning?
Point 6) Again, you say that not every believer receives this gift. This is NOT what is stated in the verse. In Point 2 you assert that every believer has dominion over demons. How are you drawing the conclusion that some gifts are given to some and not to others when the verse clearly indicates that ALL believers have been given these gifts?
Gen, you say that the verse refers to those only that were present in front of Christ as he was speaking? In your list of points you point to them and then refer to we. Which is it? Byblos asserts that EVERY believer has these abilities.
Points 2&3) If you assert that God gave believers the gift of authority over demons, through Christ, then why, in the next point do you asset that only a few believers have the gift of speaking in tongues?
Points 4&5) I believe this is referring to literal snakes. Notice that the verse does not say IF they pick up snakes, it simply says THEY WILL. As for drinking anything deadly, I understand not wanting to tempt God. So this verse asserts that if a believer ingests anything deadly by accident, they have nothing to fear. Would you be willing to take a guess as to how many "believers" die every year from poisoning?
Point 6) Again, you say that not every believer receives this gift. This is NOT what is stated in the verse. In Point 2 you assert that every believer has dominion over demons. How are you drawing the conclusion that some gifts are given to some and not to others when the verse clearly indicates that ALL believers have been given these gifts?
we all do because God will do these things through us! We are no different form them!
We all have differnt gifts. My dad and pastor can speak tongues but I cannot. However In heaven Iw ill be able to and maybe later in my life I will be able to to.
THey die sure... but im sure many also have miracles where they are unharmed. If God meant for them to die they die, if god meant for them to live they live.
THey are all to all of us, There are also Talents that is something we dont all have, I may be talented in language while Jake is talented in Math. It is our Job to use our gifts (talents) to bring glory and poeple to God.
We all have differnt gifts. My dad and pastor can speak tongues but I cannot. However In heaven Iw ill be able to and maybe later in my life I will be able to to.
THey die sure... but im sure many also have miracles where they are unharmed. If God meant for them to die they die, if god meant for them to live they live.
THey are all to all of us, There are also Talents that is something we dont all have, I may be talented in language while Jake is talented in Math. It is our Job to use our gifts (talents) to bring glory and poeple to God.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Byblos, to you I ask this: If you and your father are both believers, then why do you not have the same gifts. The verse mentioned above does not state that some believers would have some gifts and some others. It doesn't say anything about giving those gifts based on the strength of their belief.
And talents and gifts are two very different things and should not be confused. The verse doesn't talk about TALENT, it talks about GIFTS.
And talents and gifts are two very different things and should not be confused. The verse doesn't talk about TALENT, it talks about GIFTS.