Virgin Mary

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Jesus, The Imperfect Beacon--For two thousand years Christians have alleged that Jesus of Nazareth is God incarnate, the sinless being, the embodiment of perfection.

1Pet. 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.

Isa. 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet, the New Testament has many statements and acts by Jesus which prove the contrary. He, like Paul, repeatedly made false statements and inaccurate prophecies. Here are a few examples:

John 7:8-10[KJV] Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

John 7:8-10 RSV Go to the festival yourselves. I am not going to this festival, for my time has not yet fully come. After saying this, he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone to the festival, then he also went, not publicly but as it were in private.

Jesus broke his promise [word] by going up secretly after saying he wouldn't.

(B) In John 13:38 Jesus said: "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou (Peter-ed) hast denied me thrice."

And yet, what actually occurred is shown in Mark 14:66-68: "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest: And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth. But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew."

According to Jesus' prophecy the cock was not to speak until after the third denial, not after the first.

© Jesus told the thief on the cross: Luke 23:43 "... Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." This prophecy could not have been kept unless Jesus went to heaven that day, in which case he would not have been buried for three days.

(D) Jesus told a man: Mark 8:34 "... Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

This statement was made early in his ministry. Yet, the cross could not have become a Christian symbol until after the Crucifixion. There would be nothing to pick up. This utterance would have made no sense whatever to the man being addressed.

(E) In Matthew 5:22 he said:

Matt. 5:22 "...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Yet, Jesus repeated called people fools: Matt. 23:17,19 "Ye fools and blind..." Luke 11:40 "Ye fools,..."

(F) In Matthew Jesus said: Matt. 12:40 " For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Mark 15:37 and 15:42 show Jesus died on the day before the sabbath which would be Friday. Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:1 show he allegedly rose sometime during Saturday night or Sunday morning. Friday afternoon to Sunday morning does not encompass three days and three nights. His prophecy failed.

(G) John 3:13 Jesus falsely stated: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

This verse is not only inaccurate historically as 2 Kings 2:11 shows: 2 Kings 2:11"...behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." but also absurd on its face. If the son of man (Jesus-ed) is down here on earth speaking, then how could he be in heaven?
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It's all terribly vague and fuzzy isn't it? A virgin birth!!!!The three wise men following a star. Must have been one of them slow shooting stars, lol!

Then there's the crucifixion and the three day enigma. And the tomb.... what tomb?

The fact that people seriously base a belief system on such noisy evidence... well. Maybe God was having an off day when he created rational thought
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dibbler @ Oct. 14 2003,4:12)]It's all terribly vague and fuzzy isn't it? A virgin birth!!!!The three wise men following a star. Must have been one of them slow shooting stars, lol!

Then there's the crucifixion and the three day enigma. And the tomb.... what tomb?

The fact that people seriously base a belief system on such noisy evidence... well. Maybe God was having an off day when he created rational thought
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wait, you mean there's actually any evidence at all? *gasp*
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None that I've found in any way compelling. Plenty of anactotes. That's about it really
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 14 2003,3:20)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (www_rlxc_com @ Oct. 14 2003,10:00)]"For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the GLORY of God"

That verse does not say "For all BUT MARY have sinned....
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Interesting. It also does not say "all BUT JESUS have sinned..."
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Actually it does now I shall prove you wrong. Hebrews 4:14-15 "Therefore since we have a great High Priest who has gone through the heavens Yeshua the Son of God let us hold firmly to the faith we possess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses but we have one who has been tempted in every way just as we are yet without sin." Put that with Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Now you have the only man who never sinned Yeshua/Jesus. Nowhere does it say Mary was without sin yet it does say Yeshua was.
 
Have you ever stopped to think that god dident create rational thought and that our rational thought is obscured? God is omnipotent and spirit we are fleshly humans who can only see with our fleshly eyes. The things of God may seem strange to us but that is because we in no way can comprehend God and his glorious works.
 
John 7 Jesus going to the feast of the tabernacle, ONE his own brothers told him to Go, and they did not believe he was the messiah. 2ndly he told them he wasnt going because they Jews there wanted to kill him.  You also do not understand that John is the most in depth book writen about Jesus and his life. His book goes more in depth on details and Context is the king.

Lets say you wanted to go to Lybia, now being a white american, you could not go there with out being knowticed. so you tell all your lybian friends you are not going to come, but in secret you go to see what you wanted to see. this way your Lybian friends ( who didnt trust you, basicly wanted you dead) do not tell the general populase about your coming, because they do not know.

Context is king

John 17:15-18 and 25-27 anwser the Peter question

Why must you atempt to distort the Word? i mean come on oh man Mark only has one referrance Jesus must be lying, gosh are you that ignorant that you do not cross referrance it? tisk tisk

Jesus could say that to the other prisonar because, one He is God in flesh, and two he had forgiven the mans sins, and so he would be in heaven with Jesus now then he said that he will be in paradise with him, that does not mean that they will meet up right away, but they will be there together, yet again a hole filled and fruitless argument

the mark one i do not even need to read, any half wit scholar could tell you what the cross represented in Jesus' day. so yes this had heavy implication to the people who Jesus said it, primaraly because the Jews could see a cruxifiction almost daily, man you have to love romain justice.

Yet again context is king
You are only taking the last line of the verse not looking at the entire thing. it is dealing with justice and angry towards a brother. he is also talking about murder at this time. the you fool is in regard to someone saying ot his brother "Raca"

Now then about the Ressurrection
The sabbath starts on Friday in the evening and does not end until monday morning, during times of festival, we can not go into full detail about the rules for the sabbath right now because it would make this post way to long.
Jesus dies friday in the early afternoon, they take him down about evening ( he didnt die instantly), Jewish law says no handling of dead bodies so they put him in a tomb, and left, now then friday, saturday, sunday night. now read it out in the 24 hr time frame and you also get 3 days, it does no say that Jesus got up right on monday morning nor does it say the women went to the tomb at first light, just it says on the first day of the week.


the last one can be debated easier than the 2kings i mean come on Enoch walk with God and was no more, BUT HE DIDNT COME BACK! duh who could talk about heavenly things with any assurance unless he had been there. and that is what the entire passage is about Jesus is teaching Nicodemus who was a Pharisees a teacher of the law and he would know all about the old testament.

all this ramble does is show that the person who wrote it had no idea what he was talking about and only picks and chooses to prove that God is wrong, anyone can do this with anything. it also teaches us that Context is king and that you should learn to read and study before you just randomly post things.
 
Now, since I did not feel like editting out parts of that text I quoted, I do agree with a few of your context arguments. However, others I still see as petty rationalization, but since you seem unable to respond intelligently to any posts of mine without hastily attacking me, I'm not even going to show you your faults...seriously, until you start maturing, I have no business with you.
 
I hide behind no walls, and certainly less ignorance than you. Again, I will not be suckered into your foolish arguments!

CCGR, can you not plainly see that he is the antagonist in this feud?! Please rebuke him! I long for this board to return to its normal state of discussion - and if all the Christians here can do is hurl insults, I have other forums where I can spend my time and give my input.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 14 2003,3:32)]Have you ever stopped to think that god dident create rational thought and that our rational thought is obscured? God is omnipotent and spirit we are fleshly humans who can only see with our fleshly eyes. The things of God may seem strange to us but that is because we in no way can comprehend God and his glorious works.
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But how could you have rationalised God without human rationality? And surly, if God is omnipotent, a sneaky thing like rational thought couldn't have escaped his attention. Not really?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dibbler @ Oct. 14 2003,4:53)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 14 2003,3:32)]Have you ever stopped to think that god dident create rational thought and that our rational thought is obscured? God is omnipotent and spirit we are fleshly humans who can only see with our fleshly eyes. The things of God may seem strange to us but that is because we in no way can comprehend God and his glorious works.
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But how could you have rationalised God without human rationality? And surly, if God is omnipotent, a sneaky thing like rational thought couldn't have escaped his attention. Not really?
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You dont rationalize God. He said to believe in his not understand him. No the antichrist is not Nero there are more things then 666 and I dont even know how that measures up to Nero.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dibbler @ Oct. 14 2003,3:12)]The three wise men following a star. Must have been one of them slow shooting stars, lol!
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I always found it interesting that astrology was a tool of the devil...and that you shouldn't look for signs in the heavens...yet God sends a heavely object to announce the birth of his sun...yet the only people who apparently noticed it were Eastern (Persian? Indian? Chinese? Most likely Persian...for obvious reasons) Astrologers.

Today's homefun assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to tell me where that prophesy is found.

*cough* mithra *cough*
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 14 2003,2:43)]And yet, what is shown in the Bible represents a very small period of his life!

So, anyways, yeah, hormones.
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Well, according to some schools of thought...Mary wasn't the only person to "have Jesus inside her."

In some traditions, Mary Magdeline was Jesus' wife.

(I am not trying to offend anyone, nor am I saying it is so. I'm just sharing things I learned over the course of my life.)

I've always wondered...Did Jesus cry as a baby? I mean, wailing, the way babies do. Or was he an angelic baby that never cried or anything?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 14 2003,3:57)]No the antichrist is not Nero there are more things then 666 and I dont even know how that measures up to Nero.
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http://users.iafrica.com/l/ll/lloyd/7-EndTimeIssues/666.htm

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I have to get off to class, or else I'd find a better one.

Short version is that 666 likely refers to Nero.

Thanks for all of you guys dispelling my myth that Nero didn't persucute Christians! Had you not...I never would have learned that Nero was the AntiChrist, 666 is a numerical representative of his name, and all that other fun stuff.

See, knowledge is power.
 
This is an interesting discusion.

I heard that, during his lost years, Jesus travelled, during which he learned the teachings of the Buddha.

That would account for the vast difference between the NT and the OT wouldn't it?

Turn the other cheek... etc. There was nothing new in Jesus' teaching. The Buddha thought of it first.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You dont rationalize God. He said to believe in his not understand him.
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But how can anyone believe anything without rational thought? Come on dude, you must concede that...
 
I don't believe in the numbers, Bill Gate's name with middle name and III at th end equals 666, so what!

look for a guy promising peace, jews following, claiming he is God, getting killed and coming back.

LOJ, timor does have a poitn I think you two need to ingore eachother a bit
 
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