Time to focus

[nattyg]

Most of the raiding mains won't leave even if the going gets tough. The fair-weather mains have left already. C'est la vie.

As an apparent fair weather main (or maybe fair weather vein would be better??) I can state that this conversation has taken place in the leadership forums and you will not, any time soon, see changes.

Not sure what's up with people thinking it really takes countless hours to do well in this game, but the gist of it is that it's been decided that constructive criticism and balancing out between the "a team" and allowing others that aren't correctly geared or not quite up to the level of skill required to down a new boss to experience the farmed content isn't "Christian". Trust me Ash, you aren't the first, and certainly won't be the last, to bring this up. That being said, to Proud's point, it'd probably be better to lead by example than posting in a public forum like this. Debate and discussion are good, but if it's something you can work on internally by a.) improving yourself and b.) improving others, that's far better and more productive.

They are the people who feel a strong connection to the fellowship in the guild and are torn apart and upset that they have basically outgrown Redeemed

This is really more like it.

There are casual raiding guilds that have reached far into Ulduar and are not putting in 6+ hours a night. They raid 3-4 days a week. You aren't required to be at every raid either. You ARE required to come prepared and focused.

I went back to SilverHand after my lovely guild 'sploded on not being able to get Yogg down in 3 weeks That point aside, PUGs on that server (www.leftoversraiding.org) are usually spending 2-3 days a week, 3-4 hours a night. I'd say most of that time is spent on Yogg at this point

Now I'll take another 2-3 month posting break.

That is all.

 

[Asheriah]

The concerns and what not that I expressed from the beginning are not mine alone, but rather several other committed raiders in the guild who,
are very close to leaving the guild to raid elsewhere, and who share the same concerns.. since no one was saying anything in the forums , i felt it was the right time to voice out our collective concerns
before we lost anymore high lvl raiders.

 

[john3610]

I think what has happened in this thread is that we've forgotten how this guild is spread out with different types of people.

First, let me say that we can succeed at raiding. And by my standards, I would say that we have succeeded to some degree. Also, please remember that we do have a bit of a raiding lull during the summer. You'd think that summer is a time when more people would be around, but in reality we always slow down a whole lot over the summer.

For those who feel like we aren't doing enough to progress (which seems to be the biggest part of people in this thread) you need to remember that we are trying to strike a balance between just progressing and between including new members and new 80's into our raid environment. I think what Ewoks was saying is that it is tough to do "hardcore" raiding means that it is tough for Redeemed to progress quickly because our main focus is not just on the 10-25 people who are going to be in those progression raids. You must remember that we have new people hitting 80 every day and are doing our best to include them in our raid environment. A strong focus on progression raiding CAN lead to having our members who are not geared for that content feeling left out. There is definitely a balance we need to strike here. We can progress (and have done so pretty successfully) but we also need to allow for other people to be brought into the raid environment as well.

When I say "bring people into our raid environment" I mean that we want to give them a chance to raid with us as a group of believers. That is why we continue to take time out to do the earlier 25 man instances. We are doing our best to accommodate both new and established members. (Established members being people who want to progress right now).

Currently, as evidenced by the new raid schedule (http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32653) we are attempting to progress further into Ulduar to try and meet the needs of our established members. Look, you guys are important to us! We would not have had the multitude of successes if you were not with us. Thank you so much for being a part of Redeemed and being patient with us as we try to strike a fair balance. I'm sorry if you feel like we don't care about you. Because we do... and if you feel like someone told you that we want you to leave and go raid with someone else.... come talk to me. That is not the case. The only time I want you to leave and raid with another guild is if you honestly feel like Redeemed is not able to meet your needs. And in that case, while I'm sorry to see you go, I also wish you much success and hope that one day you find that you want to come back to our family.

Please, established raiders, remember that it is a very big task to shepherd a community of 200 people who all want something different from this game. I am one of the people who does want to progress... I love moving forward and have worked very hard to get my character to a place where I can do that. But, we also need to remember that we want to give people who are new to raiding the chance to do the same thing that we've enjoyed doing so much. We want to continue to run lower end raids so they can enjoy the great fun we have as a body of believers raiding and so they can learn and be geared enough to progress with us.

It is going to take hard work and commitment from each of us. We will have to die to our own desires at times. We will have to endure through Naxx and OS even though we may be so tired of doing that. But then we can also enjoy the sweet times together like downing new progression content in Ulduar. Sadly, we cannot focus on just one or the other. We have to do both progression content and old content to gear up new players. That is part of the challenge Redeemed faces. But we are a body of believers and if we love one another and work together we can be successful in both places.

Now, I didn't address the concerns of the people who want to see us run more content to gear up new characters because this thread doesn't seem to have that many of those people involved in the conversation. But trust me when I say that we have almost as many newer members coming to us telling us we focus too much on progression raiding. haha, oh well. That's just part of life in a guild like Redeemed.

I do promise this. We are doing our best to make a fair and balanced (Fox News anyone?) environment where everyone can be happy and succeed.

 

[Flamethrøwer]

I haven't read much of this thread cause it's late lol.

As someone that hardly ever raids, it seems to me that if everyone who has left over the course of the last few months had stuck around, we could pretty much down any content in the game right now.

It appears that people leave because we aren't progressing well, and we aren't progressing well because people leave. Who's going to stop this cycle? I'm looking forward to when we have enough of those "high level raiders" willing to stick around to better the guild rather than themselves.

But then again, I hardly ever raid, so I could be way off course here.

In an effort to contribute, I'm going to give away an epic BoE I've been trying to sell to someone who needs help getting to raiding level. It's a small start, and I could use the money for JCing (expensive!), but I want to make sure I'm putting the guild ahead of myself. I don't remember the name of the gear, but it appears to be some sort of boomkin or resto druid piece. Leather shoulders with crit, haste, and spell power.

If anyone needs any help to start raiding, I'd be glad to help in any way I can!

Just let me know...

 

[Proudfoot]

We are trying to strike a balance between just progressing and between including new members and new 80's into our raid environment.

This seems to be the reason behind why leadership feels we can't expect much of our raids. I could have a brand new 80 today and be in raiding shape in a week or two if I wanted to. Cassadine has already proven that a brand new 80 can be ready to perform at a high level in short order if they want to. I'm not sure why this is such a large issue.

 

[john3610]

This seems to be the reason behind why leadership feels we can't expect much of our raids. I could have a brand new 80 today and be in raiding shape in a week or two if I wanted to. Cassadine has already proven that a brand new 80 can be ready to perform at a high level in short order if they want to. I'm not sure why this is such a large issue.

For someone like you, me, or Cass it isn't an issue at all. But we have a large number of people who either do not know how or are not willing to get there on their own. And while we have taken a lot of steps to try and get people to step up it doesn't always work.

We are asking people to take an interest in their own development and we'll help them along the way when we can. We are doing the same on the other end. We are going to ask our better players to bear with the less geared and then we will do our best to see that they are also able to get into high end raids.

Remember, as leaders, we can only work with what we've got available to us. I can't make anyone do anything. I can just encourage them to take the right steps.

 

[Asheriah]

Thanks Bill , that is correct and well said..but getting themselves to raid in progression raids is their personal responsibility to get with their class leads, and grind through specs, rotations, ext... we can only help them so much in lower lvl raids like naxx and OS, and Vault.. we can help them get the gear, but we cant make them get over 3k dps..

So i agree with you Bill and will add that personal responsibility is the other half to getting into raids..

 

[john3610]

I also forgot to mention another category that fits into the group I mentioned before. We have kids who are not allowed to raid with other guilds (due to parents not wanting them to), members who are not willing to PUG because of language and things they don't want to be exposed to, and people whose playtime is limited so they are not able to progress themselves.

Those are not people who are not willing to take personal responsibility for their characters, but for one reason or another are not able. We need to make sure to not ignore those kinds of players. This is a complex issue that we are always trying to make better and better.