Time to focus

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Asheriah

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I know this has been a sensitive subject for many peeps for a while now, but i feel like it really needs to be addressed.
As many of you know due to some of our raiding policies, many of our much needed raiding mains have been dropping out of our
guild like insects in a bug zapper. They do so because of our lax raiding ways, and they feel the only way to progress in Uldar period
is to go to other guilds that makes it more of a priority to do so.



Now i know they are encouraged to do this, but it has had a long term damaging effect on our guild with raiding.

I respect Mcfirce's, and Goodwone, and Gobies leadership very much, and think they are doing a tremendous job! Woot! Woot!

But regarding the raids, there is some issues i believe needs to be fixed,and fixed A.S.A.P., but not limited to, Such as :



1. The amount of goofing off during raid time. I am not pointing any fingers at anyone,, because i am guilty of this as well..

During raid time. everyone needs to keep quiet for the raid leader to give instructions, clarification, handing out loot,, ext...

Unless you have a question regarding what you need to do.. or we are on a given break, or bio, drink, ext... dont talk.. it is highly frustrating for the ones leading the raid.



2. Dont bring out the trains, toy pets, they have their place in the game but not in raids.

3. Concentration is at a minimum at this point. Guys i know we are lax when it comes to raiding. but how are we ever going to progress
through 25 man Uldar if we keep making dumb mistakes over and over and over and over.. get my drift by now??? Seriously gang,
Raids are to be an extremely focused , mind sharp activity, that needs your full alertness, and concentration.



Again i am guilty of this too, i know i will probably take flack for writing this, but it is at the point now if no one will say anything ,, I WILL..
and if we are to progress in raiding at all, we all need to start with numeral uno. If we all can do that, I believe we can go farther than we ever could in Raids.

Go Redeemed Woot!


Zach , Asheriah
 
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I think last night was a prime of example of us doing both raiding and fellowshipping with others in the guild. I had a blast practicing Tebran pulls and watching others make silly mistakes too .......and smiling. I love the toys, the pets, the snowballs, the fireworks and all the toys and I don't think anyone was using them at an inappropriate time at all last night. Its the raid leader's job to focus people when its time to pull, and I think Mcfierce did fine.....anytime I wasn't moving quick enough his fluffy boomkin butt was pulling something I had to grab off him anyways...
 
3. Concentration is at a minimum at this point. Guys i know we are lax when it comes to raiding. but how are we ever going to progress
through 25 man Uldar if we keep making dumb mistakes over and over and over and over.. get my drift by now??? Seriously gang,
Raids are to be an extremely focused , mind sharp activity, that needs your full alertness, and concentration.
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No offense Ash, but berating people over poor performance isn't wise when you yourself are not above reproach. None of us are perfect and encouraging good habits and performance are great but most of all we should focus on what we can do to improve ourselves. Before I ask others to do something I'd better be practicing it myself. Your personal DPS isn't near what I'd expect of someone in Ulduar, and I'd implore you to do a ton of research and work on that instead of worrying about others' issues. We all have issues and mine may be bluntness. :eek:

Luke 6:39 said:
He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40. A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
41. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
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I don't think any of these items listed above would cause people to leave.

I've only been to a few raids, but the few times I did attend I failed to hear anyone speak out of turn or do anything so extreme that it warranted them being reprimanded.

I was also unaware that there was a problem.
 
All fun must stop!!! This is a game and it's serious business. :)
 
I felt that last nights 25m Naxx went very well. It takes a bit of time for everyone to get the flow of eachother. I also felt that any fun was had at appropriate times, 'while waiting for people to get back from afk's etc. This should be fun for all, but also serious enough for all to listen and learn, so we can down bosses. It isn't black and white, and both sides of the statements are correct. There is a time for play and a time to listen. I'm sure Angry will let us know. Just because some people don't like 'trains' or other stuff, doesn't mean all don't. I for one think they are one of WoW's most loveable inventions, to lighten the moods and give people stuff to laugh over. Like boats that are actually turtles being moved by hanging carrots in front of thier noses. It's all great humor and meant to be used at appropriate times. (I still want engineer recipe: Gnomish faction painters- ability to make breakable skins with colored wine to be dropped from flying mounts at appropriate opposite factions targets, turning the target a nice shade of yellow or pink.)
 
I think at times the atmosphere is light when it needs to be a bit more serious, and serious when it needs to be a bit more light. A boss fight is the time you give 110%, work just a little harder, aim for the goal and shoot. This is where you want to shine as a player whether healing or dps or tanking. This is where if you hate the fight, you don't use that as an excuse to not try but as a driver to be better and over come it. We all have fights we hate not one is excluded from this fact. But times of seriousness needs to be lightened with times of being jovial. You never see soldiers on a battlefield doing nothing. If it is not their turn at guard and watch, they are relaxing and having fun, playing cards, shooting hoops, reading books. So in real life, in the most stressful of times, we find play and relaxation. Just be sure to properly separate them. Raids are supposed to be fun and working together to overcome challenges.
 
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just to give u an idea...this was back in BC during a progression run in Zul'Aman. (see attached images)

There is a time and place for everything and I try to make raids a place to have fun.

There is, indeed, a level of seriousness that needs to accompany any and all raids. Boss fights, specific trash pulls, etc. I am working on mastering the art of leading and "taking control" of the runs as appropriate.

On the Naxx25 run the other night, it didn't go as well/far as I had hoped...too many unnecessary wipes. But then again, we haven't done Naxx25 as a guild in a while. We did get some good gear passed around and thats what matters to me.
 
Ok i see that many of you who replied misunderstood what i was getting at.
I didnt say that you cant have fun with trains, and other toys.. just not during
raids.. reason being is it gets our focus off of what we need to be fully attentive too..

And about having fun in raids.. I am all for it.. i loved the fellowship we had the other night , and it was great that much needed gear was passed around.

What i am saying is that by now most everyone knows the naxx fights. It is not fun wiping repeatedly. I never said we couldnt have fun in raids.. i explained that there were appropriate times for this.. like breaks, summoning times..ext...

One thing though is raid is way more fun when peeps are attentive, alert, and downing all the bosses in a decent amount of time.

Progressing past the first few bosses in Uldar would be incredibly fun!

Oh! i also said that it does start with yourself.. i did state in my original statement that i have been just as guilty of this as well.. but it needs to stop with all of us as soon as possible.

Here is why,, because if we dont the last of the remaining mains will go somewhere they can progress.. if that happens Redeeemed raiding will be back to runing 10 man naxx every week just to be able to do 25man naxx runs..

Uldar will not even be in sight!!! If other mains go due to this,, these will be our consequences...

That is not fun!!!

I dont want to see that , and i know none of you do too.

This is my reasons for what i originally wrote.

I am all for fun in raids, and am for a long time to come.
 
it's not because we didn't try, it's because we are terrible.

:)
 
Asheriah said:
because if we dont the last of the remaining mains will go somewhere they can progress.
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Sorry man I don't agree. There are those who take this game in more importance than the fellowship of Redeemed. Redeemed is not a raiding guild. We are a family of believers who happen to raid.

We may (will) not go as fast in progression as a hard-core raiding guild. There are some players who want to do that and enjoy progression. There is nothing wrong with that. But there are those who feel progression and loot are more important and so they will leave. That is OK.

Most of the raiding mains won't leave even if the going gets tough. The fair-weather mains have left already. C'est la vie.

That's not to say you don't have a point about goofing off in raids. You absolutely do. In time, with the new leadership we will find a good rhythm and the mistakes you saw in Naxx will not happen as much. Hang in there good buddy. :)
 
Lloren i appreciate what you said, but you nailed it on the head what the root cause of the problem is..

Redeemed is not a raiding guild..Im sorry gang, but there is only a couple of things to do at end game.

1. Pvping, in whatever context.

2. Raiding

3. Leveling more toons,, to just pick who you will raid, or pvp with.


Well, Reco, Neliva, Naz, and i know a hand full of others who are considering the move even now... this is not healthy for Redeemed...

My point in all this discussion is why even take it to the point where guildies have to leave because of certain raiding policies???

We force out in my opinion not fare weather which have meant nothing ,,but rather the ones that make a huge difference.. Reco.. insane dps ,
neliva great dps and a good tank not to mention his mage does huge dps. Aves doesnt do uldar with us now, hes one the best healers i have ever known!

The list goes on with others that are very close to doing the same, just because why?

Redeemed is not a raiding guild???

Gang we can have plenty of fellowship wal we raid, and lots of fun too. But instead of losing good solid raiding guildies , lets maybe take a look at our raiding policies, and our outlook.

We have a choice to make,,

1. keep it the same and keep losing more and more much needed raiding peeps.

2. Or change how we view what we do and maybe get back who we lost and keep who are thinking of leaving to get Redeemed at a decent lvl of Raiding.

We can be a casual guild, wal still having a hard core raiding group. that can carry us to the next lvl..

it only makes Redeemed better guys.. why not.. we wont loose fellowship in any way..

Good example was last night at 25 man naxx, it was awesome.. great leadership, not much goofing around, peeps were listening, and what?

We got the job done without many wipes.. great job Redeemed!

So it is possible to be a casual guild wal still having that next lvl mentality for Raiding..

to make us a better guild...Thats it gang.
 
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I'm not sure it can ever happen Ash. I have been in many MMOs and many successful hard core raiding groups. All of the successful ones were successful due to things that would be completely unhealthy for a Christian guild to have. Success was almost always due to raid leaders that played WAY too much for a Christian (with a balanced life) to be playing. Raiders that played WAY to much. Raid leaders that called people out in front of their peers allowing humiliation to make people see their weakness (this works fantastic except in a Christian guild) Raid leaders that demand time commitments and have severe punishments for those who cant abide. (another bad one for a casual guild)

There are more but you get my point. Hardcore raiding is not compatible with a guild like Redeemed. In my opinion, you need to accept this and adjust, or move on but don't beat a dead horse. This is like the 50th time this has been discussed through out Red's long history and it always ends up the same. You can have hardcore raiding or you can have Godly leadership but you won't see the 2 come together because they are not compatible. It's not our fault, it is the way Blizz designed the game. The time sinks and requirements for hardcore raiding are just not OK for Christians to be participating in, and your Godly officers won't let the guild become that beast.
 
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It is VERY VERY difficult to make a Christian Guild and Successful Raiding guild... In some big name guilds I played with in the beginning that were raiding guilds, you pretty much have to be jerks to each other to get anything done, and you end up treating people like crap... In a Christian Guild, where we treat everyone with Love, and help out ALL guildies, becoming hardcore raiders just doesn't work... Esspecially when there is always going to be new raiders, and you have to help them in Nax and what not...a Christian guild is about Fellowship and helping others...not yourself... If you are looking to raid hardcore, a Christian guild is NOT where to do it...
 
ewoksrule said:
I'm not sure it can ever happen Ash. I have been in many MMOs and many successful hard core raiding groups. All of the successful ones were successful due to things that would be completely unhealthy for a Christian guild to have. Success was almost always due to raid leaders that played WAY too much for a Christian (with a balanced life) to be playing. Raiders that played WAY to much. Raid leaders that called people out in front of their peers allowing humiliation to make people see their weakness (this works fantastic except in a Christian guild) Raid leaders that demand time commitments and have severe punishments for those who cant abide. (another bad one for a casual guild)

There are more but you get my point. Hardcore raiding is not compatible with a guild like Redeemed. In my opinion, you need to accept this and adjust, or move on but don't beat a dead horse. This is like the 50th time this has been discussed through out Red's long history and it always ends up the same. You can have hardcore raiding or you can have Godly leadership but you won't see the 2 come together because they are not compatible. It's not our fault, it is the way Blizz designed the game. The time sinks and requirements for hardcore raiding are just not OK for Christians to be participating in, and your Godly officers won't let the guild become that beast.
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Well said...
 
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