Dark Virtue
New Member
Genesis1315 said:
Very true, but in this case, I think it's half of the batch that's burned.
Suffering (Splinter from Satanism thread)
- Thread starter [toj.cc]WildBillKickoff
- Start date
Very true, but in this case, I think it's half of the batch that's burned.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Marcylene said:
But WHY? Is there another description that you'd rather me use?
WHY would you put your trust in someone that you don't understand? Why would you put your complete trust in someone that you don't understand completely? It's not reasonable.
Marcy, you said, "If you could fully understand that God is Love and longsuffering at that, you would not be so quick to judge Him so harshly and falsely." Do you fully understand that God is love? If so, please explain to me how a God of love could commit so many atrocities. If you don't fully understand that God is love, then how do you know that I am wrong in my assesment of him?
Dark Virtue
New Member
I have a question regarding these aspects of God:
If God sees all, is strong, is a provider, is just and righteous, loving and is a healer, how could he possibly allow pain and suffering to exist? Moreover, how could he possibly CREATE the pain and suffering he knew his creation would have to endure?
If God is unchanging, why did he change his mind about his creation once it grieved him so and chose to wipe them out? If God is unchanging why did he create a set of laws knowing full well man could not keep them, only to change them later when he fulfilled his own law?
Why does a "perfect" being show such IMperfect traits such as jealousy, anger, vengeance and wrath?
If God sees all, is strong, is a provider, is just and righteous, loving and is a healer, how could he possibly allow pain and suffering to exist? Moreover, how could he possibly CREATE the pain and suffering he knew his creation would have to endure?
If God is unchanging, why did he change his mind about his creation once it grieved him so and chose to wipe them out? If God is unchanging why did he create a set of laws knowing full well man could not keep them, only to change them later when he fulfilled his own law?
Why does a "perfect" being show such IMperfect traits such as jealousy, anger, vengeance and wrath?
Yes, if I could have my way, you would, in a most heartfelt way, call Him LORD!
DV, it would not seem reasonable, I must agree, that is, if we were speaking of just anyone, but we are speaking of God.
Faith, being the evidence of things not seen, does not always make sense! I know, that I know, that I know that He is Love. I can see that evidence in circumstances in my own life.
*sigh* DV, sometimes you absolutely, positively exasperate me! You try hard, don't you? I don't feel worthy to explain the things of God, I fall so short. God communicates through His Word. He communicates through others. God communicates through Preaching. He communicates through teaching. He communicates through feelings. God communicates through song. He communicates through circumstances. He communicates through nature. God communicates through any means that He decides. God communicates through blessings in my life. He communicates through His provisions. There now! Satisfied?
I won't go in to full detail, but my favorite as of late, moment of hearing God was at a time I was feeling in the most despair I can remember in a very long time. My heart was breaking and through tears of desperation, I felt immobile to do anything. I cried unto Him and asked that He speak to me. Opening His Word the chapter that I turned to, while you may feel that it was simple coincidence, (While I don't think the odd of that are likely seeing my Bible has 1843 pages, not counting the small concordance), it was not only exactly the comfort I needed at the moment, it was exactly describing the situation I was in at the moment. This may seem a crazy, or small thing to you, but at the time, and in my heart even still, it was HUGE to me. Things such as this, are what strengthens my faith. It makes me know that He is near. It shows me proof of His Word.
Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. Jeremiah 33:3
If Gods Word gave the complete detail of every account, we would not be able to lift it, nor would we need to take it by faith. Let me just start with the simple fact that 40 years shows much patience. Not to mention the fact that the Israelites are still His chosen people while they continue to this very day to see His truths.
God looks at the thoughts and intents of our hearts. That is what He is concerned about. To believe that someone has earnestly sought Him and not found Him, is to make Him a liar.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. James 4:8
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. Deuteronomy 4:29
I am saying that I know that I fall short. Same with my parents, have I always been worthy of their unconditional love? Not a day! I have truly not one ounce deserving on my best day. Yet, like my Heavenly Father, they love me regardless of, contrary to, and in spite of my faults.
I cannot judge their hearts. There is far more of the story that we do not see than we do. They were given opportunity to accept Salvation, of that I am certain.
Yes, DV. What about that torture? What about what the Israelites endured in Egypt? Pharaoh? All he had to do was let Gods people go! How stubborn can you get?
You insult what intelligence I have!! I am aware of all the sides, and also more honored than you can imagine that God chooses to show us His Love.
While I know that much of what God tell us and does must be taken by faith, the times I get upset are more times that I have difficulty explaining in a way that is honorable to Him, or the lack of being able to explain in a manner that would allow you to understand and believe.
Genesis1315
Ladies
It is not could not keep, but would not keep.
Why are these imperfect traits?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Marcylene said:
Give me evidence of his existence and I just might.
I was, however, referring to a descriptive term that details omnipotence, omniscience, omniprescence, omnibenevolence, et. al.
I don't understand why you hold God to a lower standard than you would a human being. Especially since you have no idea how much you actually DO understand God.
Sorry, but I am going to hold your feet to the fire, since you are refusing to answer the question posed to you. You say that God is love, but when presented with evidence to the contrary, you bury your head in the sand and ignore it. Is that how you reconcile the good with the bad, by ignoring it?
I don't understand, you say you don't feel worthy to explain how God interacts with your life, but yet you insist that he does. And you say "I" exasperate "YOU"?
"God communicates through His Word." How?
"He communicates through others." How?
"God communicates through Preaching." Now that I can understand.
"He communicates through teaching." Isn't this the same as preaching?
"He communicates through feelings." How?
"God communicates through song." How? Wouldn't this be the same ad preaching?
"He communicates through circumstances." Explain.
"He communicates through nature." How?
"God communicates through any means that He decides." Now you're just reaching.
"God communicates through blessings in my life." And you know they came from God how?
Now THAT is exasperating
But seriously...you haven't answered my question at all. How do you know this is God that is communicating with you? How does God communicate with you in a way that closely resembles communication you could have with another person? And where, in your explanation above, does the little whisper fit in? Do you hear words? A voice? If not, why did you define it as a whisper? What happened to the loud booming voice of the OT?I believe you...I simply call it a coincidence, or more importantly, anecdotal evidence.
What about those that called but heard no answer?
Again, misdirection. You haven't answered the question about why you thought this was GOOD.
Ah, then you make ME a liar. Or MAYBE, you simply don't understand your God as well as you think. It's easier, however, to call me a liar.
So what do you say to those that tried, yet failed? Sought, but didn't find? How many people do you think there are that have done this? Am I the only one?
That's not the point, you said, "I know He has the ability to strike me down, and by anything but the blood of Jesus and Him in me, he has every right to treat me most horribly." NO offspring, or in this case, creation, DESERVES to be treated horribly, especially if the creator is omnibenevolent. You claim God is love, but the history presented in the Bible speaks otherwise. The OT is full of it.
What is the evidence that you base that on?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Genesis1315 said:
So you are saying that it is within the bounds of human ability to keep ALL of God's commands, as he set forth in the OT?
Because they create negative effects. Do you consider them positive traits? At the very least, don't you think they are HUMAN traits, that should not be present in a deity?
Gen, your avatar and sig are beautiful!!!
"God communicates through His Word." How? - By speaking against sin. When giving me the understanding of His Word. When giving me what I need at that moment in time. By showing me His Love. By revealing Himself to me. (Please don't jump on that last one. I have already told you, I will be happily learning and discovering of Him throughout eternity.)
"He communicates through others." How? - In many ways, more often than not, giving the Love of His stretched out arms, His provision, and the confirmation of His Word.
"God communicates through Preaching." Now that I can understand. It's about time!
"He communicates through teaching." Isn't this the same as preaching? Umm, no, I would consider teaching more pastoral. More like, here Marcylene, this is what you need for today. Marcylene, here is what the Bible says, and why and what happened in history, these are the corresponding verses...Okay, maybe like a good preacher!
"He communicates through feelings." How? Boy, you are hard on me. This would fall in still small voice, perhaps. Just knowing that He is there, feeling His Love. Feeling that I can trust Him.
"God communicates through song." How? Wouldn't this be the same as preaching? Maybe, just a differing route for me, in that I love music almost if not more than, as much as I do good preaching.
"He communicates through circumstances." Explain. I gave you one earlier. Another might be when something is on my heart and He gives me that thing over, and over, and over in the differing methods that I have described. A confirmation, if you will.
"He communicates through nature." How? It's beauty. It's magnificence. It's consistence. It's awesome power. A good example to me are the times I may feel down, or need a lift and a sparrow is sitting on my rearview mirror as I do to the car. His still small voice reminds me that He is with me.
"God communicates through any means that He decides." Now you're just reaching. In the sense that there are some that I am forgetting.
"God communicates through blessings in my life." And you know they came from God how?
Won't you join me in my circle?
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17
I wish, DV, that I could say that I NEVER, ever EVER doubted. Yet, I would be lying if I said that. As I grow older, I am not certain that I doubt that He is, yet I may have a couple of times. But doubts tend to assail that I could ever be worthy of Him in any way, and perhaps I have misunderstood that He could love me. It is then, I go back to the Word. So, as I grow older in Christ and trust Him, it may no longer be considered faith, for I have a deep knowing that is hard to explain. It is as if He has confirmed Himself and brought me thus far, so that I can know.
I'm sorry, I know my explanation must make it seem so ridiculous to you. I try to share my heart. He is real to me in many ways.
I was not calling you a liar, maybe misguided. Yet...
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:4
www.crosswalk.com
Psalm 46
1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. 4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. 5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early. 6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. 7 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. 8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. 9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. 10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
We all try, ohhh, how each of us try!Dark Virtue said:
Plezzzzzzzzzzzzze, it is a much higher standard! One that only He could fulfill.
When He is working all things together for the good of each Christian, good and bad alike, that is Love. I do not ignore it. I know what is in His hand to do, and I trust when He does it. You carry on about how awful He is, yet you don't see the full story, none of us do. There is 40 years worth of history there. By faith, I believe He was all that He promises me in His Word that He is: Loving patient, kind, longsuffering, and good.
*sigh* Do you know me in the least? I don't feel worthy to explain the God of the universe, the Majesty on High. I am limited to explain someone more magnificent than any of us can imagine.
"God communicates through His Word." How? - By speaking against sin. When giving me the understanding of His Word. When giving me what I need at that moment in time. By showing me His Love. By revealing Himself to me. (Please don't jump on that last one. I have already told you, I will be happily learning and discovering of Him throughout eternity.)
"He communicates through others." How? - In many ways, more often than not, giving the Love of His stretched out arms, His provision, and the confirmation of His Word.
"God communicates through Preaching." Now that I can understand. It's about time!
"He communicates through teaching." Isn't this the same as preaching? Umm, no, I would consider teaching more pastoral. More like, here Marcylene, this is what you need for today. Marcylene, here is what the Bible says, and why and what happened in history, these are the corresponding verses...Okay, maybe like a good preacher!
"He communicates through feelings." How? Boy, you are hard on me. This would fall in still small voice, perhaps. Just knowing that He is there, feeling His Love. Feeling that I can trust Him.
"God communicates through song." How? Wouldn't this be the same as preaching? Maybe, just a differing route for me, in that I love music almost if not more than, as much as I do good preaching.
"He communicates through circumstances." Explain. I gave you one earlier. Another might be when something is on my heart and He gives me that thing over, and over, and over in the differing methods that I have described. A confirmation, if you will.
"He communicates through nature." How? It's beauty. It's magnificence. It's consistence. It's awesome power. A good example to me are the times I may feel down, or need a lift and a sparrow is sitting on my rearview mirror as I do to the car. His still small voice reminds me that He is with me.
"God communicates through any means that He decides." Now you're just reaching. In the sense that there are some that I am forgetting.
"God communicates through blessings in my life." And you know they came from God how?
Won't you join me in my circle?
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17
I wish, DV, that I could say that I NEVER, ever EVER doubted. Yet, I would be lying if I said that. As I grow older, I am not certain that I doubt that He is, yet I may have a couple of times. But doubts tend to assail that I could ever be worthy of Him in any way, and perhaps I have misunderstood that He could love me. It is then, I go back to the Word. So, as I grow older in Christ and trust Him, it may no longer be considered faith, for I have a deep knowing that is hard to explain. It is as if He has confirmed Himself and brought me thus far, so that I can know.
I'm sorry, I know my explanation must make it seem so ridiculous to you. I try to share my heart. He is real to me in many ways.
That really does hurt, for I have tried not to mislead you, or anyone for that matter.
There could be many factors. Maybe they were looking for answers on their own terms. I have done that. Maybe they were not being still, but asking, then running around and trying to do things themselves. Guilty again. God knows our heart, perhaps they had asked for an answer, but were not really wanting one. Been there, too. Perhaps they were being lazy and asking that He do it all while they were not willing to give. Same, at times. Perhaps His answer was, "No!" for the thing that they had asked. Looking back, I am glad He is not afraid to tell me, "no!"
It is not that I think seemingly bad things are good. I know that throughout history the account of the promised land has been an inspiration and admonition to untold millions. Bottom line, I will proclaim with Job, though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him. That is my best attempt at loving Him.
I feel that was nasty and unfair. I don't understand everything, that is correct. Yet, I have loved ones that I love with my whole heart and soul, and I could say the very same about them. Sometimes, that can be delightful, sometimes not so much so. Yet, I love and trust, nevertheless, and feel He and they are most worthy.
I was not calling you a liar, maybe misguided. Yet...
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:4
We have already discussed the natural disasters. There were miracles of Love in the midst of those tragedies. Granted, not all seemingly so, but that is a lack of my own understanding. I know God is always with us, as He promises. I think we will be amazed when we can see that and fully understand that fact. It would not surprise me if He carried each one in His own arms of Love straight to Heaven. He promises to be a very present help in trouble.
www.crosswalk.com
Psalm 46
1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. 4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. 5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early. 6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. 7 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. 8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. 9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. 10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
I'll take anything at this point!
Genesis1315
Ladies
Thank you Marcylene. I had to change it because someone else grabbed my avatar and I kept getting confused on which post was mine LOL
DV - The Bible tells us we can be angry as long as we don't sin. Not that I am close to that most of the time when I am angry, but it is permitted
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
Gen
DV - The Bible tells us we can be angry as long as we don't sin. Not that I am close to that most of the time when I am angry, but it is permitted
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
Gen