Ask a Catholic about Catholisism

[daszo24]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 09 2003,8:25)]I apologize if I seem bitter toward catholicism. I do realize that salvation is based on the individual and not what denomination you go to.  However if a person goes to mass everery Sunday and hear the same gospels but no message of salvation how are they to know they need to confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and make him Lord of their lives?  Now my family is Catholic so they are my test base here.

My grandparents don't crack open the Bible because they are told that they may misinterperate it.  I thought the Bible was written for everyone not a select few who need to be saved.  God does not discriminate.  

The church puts man-made doctrine above the Bible.  Many Catholics believe in purgatory.  Not even once is this mentioned in the Bible.   There is no second chance no matter how much you pay the curch to offer masses for the deceased.  

We believe in a personal relationship with God we don't need the priest to tell him our sins, we go straight through him.  The same goes with mediators. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  We don't ask Mary to run errands for us, straight to Jesus.  We don't give power to the deceased, they are dead and gone.  Hopefully we'll reuinite with them later.  

I guess the main difference between us is our stance on the Bible.  It's God's word and does not need any addendums.  If you believe in something not listed in that, that's up to you but doesn't mean I'll buy into it.  

When it comes to Christianity my church has a great motto

Agree on the Majors (Jesus died, rose, accept as savior)
Be tolerant on the minors (baptism, Bible versions)
In all things LOVE

Concering your Grandparents and the Bible, unfortunately some local Catholic Parishes (though not the Church as a whole) have taught that reading the bible is not good. However, this is in the minority and is contrary to what JPII and the rest of the popes teach.

We do not put Man made doctrines above the Bible (don't know where you got this idea), all of our doctrines are equal too and compatible with the Bible. Where does the Bible talk about the Trinity? Where does the Bible speak of abortion? Are you just going to ignore this stuff? That's impossible to do.

We Catholics also believe that we can go straight to Jesus, and we do every single day and every single Mass. Have you ever asked someone for prayers before? Of course you have! That's why there's a prayer forum here. So why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers? They're closer to God than we are right now.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen (who was the first tele-evangilist and who had a much larger TV than Billy Grahm does) once said that there aren't 50 people in America who hate the Catholic Church; they only hate what THEY BELIEVE that Catholic Church is.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ] And since they were holy people, why would God permit them to experience an attack from Satan?

Perhaps you have read the book of Job? Do you think that our lives as believers will be without persecution?

Cory

 

[mrpopdrinker]

You cant talk to Mary. You can pray to Mary but then that is breaking a commandment. Do you really think Yeshua would have went through all of that just to forgive us when Mary says do it? Nope that is not how it works God is bound by a covenent.

 

[daszo24]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Oct. 09 2003,9:47)]

Quote[/b] ] And since they were holy people, why would God permit them to experience an attack from Satan?  

Perhaps you have read the book of Job?  Do you think that our lives as believers will be without persecution?

Cory

We all go through spiritual warfare, no doubt. But having extremely painful wounds in your hands, feet, and side is quite extraordinary. I don't think God would allow Satan enough space to almost incompacitate any one of His holy people.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (daszo24 @ Oct. 09 2003,11:40)]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Oct. 09 2003,9:47)]

Quote[/b] ] And since they were holy people, why would God permit them to experience an attack from Satan?  

Perhaps you have read the book of Job?  Do you think that our lives as believers will be without persecution?

Cory

We all go through spiritual warfare, no doubt.  But having extremely painful wounds in your hands, feet, and side is quite extraordinary.  I don't think God would allow Satan enough space to almost incompacitate any one of His holy people.

We are under a new covenent then Job was. We have the power to rebuke all demons and devils that includes the spirit of infirmity.

 

[Thaddius]

The apostles were all under the new covenant, yet all of them were persecuted and killed for there beliefs. Are we better than them that we should not face the same trials as what they did?

Cory

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Oct. 09 2003,1:11)]The apostles were all under the new covenant, yet all of them were persecuted and killed for there beliefs.  Are we better than them that we should not face the same trials as what they did?  

Cory

If you are speaking to me which I assume you are. I was speaking of Job not the apostles of course we will go trhough persecution and even face death at times. My point was that we dont have to face sickness and disease.

 

[SSquared]

Quote[/b] ]How can we recieve God's grace if He is 'up there' and we are down here?

I’ll say it again, and Kidan has mentioned it as well.  We have the Holy Spirit.  I am interested in knowing your views on the Holy Spirit.  What do you think is the role of the Spirit?

Quote[/b] ]As for omnipresence, is God, as He was on earth, right next to me right now?  Should I worship the air next to me?

No.  I won’t worship the air, but God is with me at all times.  I can pray, talk, sing to Him wherever and whenever.  Also, Jesus is as real to me as a friend sitting next to me.  

Quote[/b] ]Besides, why do you have a pastor as a head of a Church?  Why not a lay person?  Why have anyone heading a church at all?  We're all equal (by the standards you are giving) and all have exactly the same position.  There should be no leadership in the Church whatsoever, otherwise we are loosing our God given equality, right?

Well, as my pastor says, “We are all ministers for Christ”.  My pastor is no greater than anyone else in the congregation.  His gifts are in the role of leading/pastoring/teaching his congregation the words of God in truth.  But without people setting out chairs, without people running the sound system, without people praying for the service, without people even willing to throw out the trash, he will not be as effective.  The minute a pastor thinks he is above anyone else in the congregation is the same time pride steps in.

Quote[/b] ]Is it intrinsically evil to be able to participate, to a degree, in the sufferings of Christ?  Would it be such a bad thing to be able to relate to the sufferings of Christ?

What I don’t get is, to suffer like Christ means to take upon the sins of the world.  If you want to relate, why not take on someone else’s sin?  Christ took on the sins of the entire world (past, present, and FUTURE) and He did it without deserving it.  True, He suffered on the cross, but even more amazing is He did it so we may have eternal life with Him.  He took my sin upon Himself, and for THAT I am eternally grateful.

 

[timor]

please please PLEASE somebody tell me how you either ignore or refute Catholic miracles!!!

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 09 2003,5:47)]please please PLEASE somebody tell me how you either ignore or refute Catholic miracles!!!

I claim ignorence I dont know about them.

 

[daszo24]

Quote[/b] (SSquared @ Oct. 09 2003,3:54)]

Quote[/b] ]I’ll say it again, and Kidan has mentioned it as well. We have the Holy Spirit. I am interested in knowing your views on the Holy Spirit. What do you think is the role of the Spirit?

As Catholics, I believe that we believe exacly what you guys believe as protestants: God gave us the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity to give us His Divine life so that each of us not only can know and love God, but can actually contain Him within us (not that we Become God, but He lives within us). We recieve the Holy Spirit through Baptism, but lose His life, though not the indelable mark of being sons of God, when we conciously choose against Him (mortal sin). We can regain that life again through the Sacrament of confession. You guys still haven't answered my question posed earlier: why did Jesus give to the Apostles the power to bind and lose sins if it was dirrectly through God that we were supposed to be forgiven?

In short, the Holy Spirit, while a person, is the very Life of God. Without Him, well....things wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]As for omnipresence, is God, as He was on earth, right next to me right now? Should I worship the air next to me?

No. I won’t worship the air, but God is with me at all times. I can pray, talk, sing to Him wherever and whenever. Also, Jesus is as real to me as a friend sitting next to me.

I agree entirely. I've said it before and I'll say it again that Catholics believe that God is personal, that we can (and do, mind you) talk with Him always just as I would a person sitting next to me, though I don't have to actually speak

But is God everywhere to the same degree? Is he actually, as you said, sitting next to me? No. I mean, if God is everywhere to the same degree, then how is heaven different from here on earth? And is God present in Hell as well--to the same degee as He's in Heaven?

Quote[/b] ]Well, as my pastor says, “We are all ministers for Christ”. My pastor is no greater than anyone else in the congregation. His gifts are in the role of leading/pastoring/teaching his congregation the words of God in truth. But without people setting out chairs, without people running the sound system, without people praying for the service, without people even willing to throw out the trash, he will not be as effective. The minute a pastor thinks he is above anyone else in the congregation is the same time pride steps in.

Our Priests are not supermen, nor does God love them anymore than He loves us. However, as Catholics, our priest are more than just ordinary men. Through the Sacrament of Holy Orders, given by Jesus at the Last Supper, our priests, through the Grace of God, primarily Jesus as the head Priest, when following the proper form during the Mass, Confession, and the other sacraments, actually do things, such as turn bread and wine into the Body and Blood or Christ, that no mere man, if you will, could ever do. Thus, priests are not better than the layity, but just as in the Old Testament, the priests have a special position in the Church. I believe that we will have to agree to disagree on this position, but I hope that you at least get a general understanding of where I'm comming from, even if you don't agree.

As far as suffering with Christ, there's alot that I could say, but I'm not sure there is the desire to understand it. What if you could be Simon and help Jesus carry the cross? Wouldn't that be awesome? Does Jesus NEED help carrying His cross? Absolutely not. Think about a mother baking a cake. Her daughter wants to help out. Does the mother need the help of her daughter to successfully bake the cake? No, but out of love she allows her daughter, who so desires to be of assistanc, to help out, even if it means more work. We Catholics believe the same exact thing applies to the Passion of Christ...His disciples all fell asleep and few others were there to help Him on His way. However, because God is eternal, He alows us to be able to suffer with Him...to be able to comfort Him. He does not need any of this, but He allows us to help Him save souls.

 

[daszo24]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 09 2003,5:54)]

Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 09 2003,5:47)]please please PLEASE somebody tell me how you either ignore or refute Catholic miracles!!!

I claim ignorence I dont know about them.

But I told you about Saint Catherine and Saint Francis

You're no longer ignorant

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Yea no one could see it but her very convining I cant find what you said about the other guy. Seeing as how you believe it literally turns into Yeshua. Would you mind telling us if Yeshua was white or black thats a debate that many people have had would you mind putting an end to it.

 

[4t0p]

would it matter popdrinker?

or are you just looking to start another arguement based on nothing other than your very close minded views and no facts? honestly in about every post you say something like 'i saw somewhere that'

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (4t0p @ Oct. 09 2003,8:09)]would it matter popdrinker?

or are you just looking to start another arguement based on nothing other than your very close minded views and no facts? honestly in about every post you say something like 'i saw somewhere that'

If you are reffering to the beer argument you started that one I wished nothing to do with it.

 

[4t0p]

now your blatantly lying, you started it go check the logs

 

[daszo24]

Mrpop, the stigmata does not turn into Jesus flesh, as far as I understand you're getting it all confused and trying to make a point on how Catholics are wrong because you don't understand what we believe.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (daszo24 @ Oct. 09 2003,8:24)]Mrpop, the stigmata does not turn into Jesus flesh, as far as I understand you're getting it all confused and trying to make a point on how Catholics are wrong because you don't understand what we believe.

No but you believe that when you take passover he turns into flesh do you not? The stigmata is what you think happens when one is so blessed they get to feel the pain of Yeshua am I wrong?

 

[4t0p]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 09 2003,7:25)]No but you believe that when you take passover he turns into flesh do you not? The stigmata is what you think happens when one is so blessed they get to feel the pain of Yeshua am I wrong?

Passover is a Jewish celebration having to do with ancient Egypt. In the sacrament of Holy Communion we Catholics belief that the wafer becomes the Flesh of Christ and the wine the Blood of Christ (check the Bible for where we get that from k)

so yes you are wrong

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (4t0p @ Oct. 09 2003,8:46)]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 09 2003,7:25)]No but you believe that when you take passover he turns into flesh do you not? The stigmata is what you think happens when one is so blessed they get to feel the pain of Yeshua am I wrong?

Passover is a Jewish celebration having to do with ancient Egypt. In the sacrament of Holy Communion we Catholics belief that the wafer becomes the Flesh of Christ and the wine the Blood of Christ (check the Bible for where we get that from k)

so yes you are wrong

Ummm oops! I ment communion sorry.
~EDIT~ Oh yes as far as Yeshua saying this is my flesh he ment that figurativly I believe.