XenForo

Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
After spending some time participating on the Puzzle & Dragons Forums (which uses XenForo), I've decided that I really like XenForo.

And I want CGA to use XenForo.

The challenge is that we have to raise ~$334 just to keep the lights on and the XenForo license is another $140 on top of that.

I know I more or less disappeared for a while and I have some nerve to emerge after relative inactivity to post a fundraising call and propose moving to a new forums system, but I love this community and I'm confident it's worth continuing (and I'm trusting I'll be shown a measure of grace). I'm happy to donate some of the funds, but I'm not in a place to cover the whole server bill plus the XenForo license.

I have some thoughts percolating regarding plans for the CGA for the next year, but I want to take more time to think and pray it over before sharing.

In the meantime, I want to start a discussion about moving from vBulletin 4 (what we're using now) to XenForo (which is digital kittens, sunshine, and strawberries in one wonderific package).
 
eww... I hope it'll look better than that site. I'm not a fan of the new "metro" style.(really hate win8 and iOS10)
 
eww... I hope it'll look better than that site. I'm not a fan of the new "metro" style.(really hate win8 and iOS10)
I really like the form and function of PAD Forums, but we could always look at themes/skins down the line if there's sufficient interest.

I like the clean UI of XenForo, but I'm more interested in the features (alerts, chat, ability to "Like" posts, etc.).
 
WE NEVER DONE IT THAT WAY BEFORE!!!!!!
Seriously that is a chunk of change. If it is a foregone thing I can see what I can do under budget heading "gifts".
 
WE NEVER DONE IT THAT WAY BEFORE!!!!!!
Seriously that is a chunk of change. If it is a foregone thing I can see what I can do under budget heading "gifts".
It isn't a sure thing yet, but I really liked the features of XenForo while I was involved on the Puzzle & Dragon Forums. The stock vB4 skin definitely shows its age in 2015 and lacks many of the features modern forums packages include as standard.

Would it get rid of double posts? Cause then I'd vote for it.
I would imagine just about any new forums package would get rid of the double post issues we've experienced.

However, I'm really a big fan of free...
As am I, but I've kept an eye on XenForo for years now and everything I've read suggests they've earned an excellent reputation. vBulletin, on the other hand, has declined almost into total obsolescence.

If it's any consolation, $140 is not an annual fee. It's the initial license cost; we would pay $40 a year thereafter until the next major version for support (and given that our staff is comprised entirely of unpaid volunteers, I would most definitely want to purchase the support at that price).

EDIT: Here's the XenForo pricing info: https://xenforo.com/purchase/
 
Sure!

I just created a free demo forum at http://a3904ed1afcd2318.demo-xenforo.com/146/index.php

The demo forum expires on June 25.

I logged in and tested it..... not a huge fan of the theme but I know that is adjustable.

I'll be honest.... I feel a lot of the CGA forums are pretty dead.... not sure an extra $140/yr will help that. It feels strange growing up with everyone but a lot of us have lives, wive(s) and kids....

What should be our direction or mission moving forward with a purchase like this?
 
I'm with Atown. CGA is pretty dead aside from two games. Not sure it's really that fair to ask members to spend $140 plus the yearly licenses fee when there's still a thread asking for server donations. I'm sure the new software does amazing things but we're not really doing much with what we have now. It's spiffy, it could be pretty but how is it going to solve the lack of involvement by members or help CGA to grow?
 
I logged in and tested it..... not a huge fan of the theme but I know that is adjustable.
Correct. That's the default theme out of the box. We could tweak the color scheme, add a logo and some graphics, and maybe even find a free or cheap theme to change the look. I set the demo up more for people to test the function than the form (though UI is important, too!).

I'll be honest.... I feel a lot of the CGA forums are pretty dead.... not sure an extra $140/yr will help that. It feels strange growing up with everyone but a lot of us have lives, wive(s) and kids....
First, I wanted to clarify that the initial license purchase is $140; the yearly support fee thereafter is $40.

Second, while I agree that the forums have been less active in the last year, I believe this community still has a lot of life left in it and deserves a chance to thrive again. I also believe that vBulletin 4 looks horribly dated in 2015 and gives the impression that the community is even less active than it's been. A new forums package would update the look and give us new features to play with (including the Chat module, which is one of the features that drew me to XenForo in the first place).

What should be our direction or mission moving forward with a purchase like this?
That is an excellent question and one I hope to have time to answer in full tonight or later this week. :)

In short, I want to make the CGA a place where people feel welcome to come and go as life allows, understanding that offline responsibilities such as family, work, school, and church take priority over online communities, but doing everything within reason to make it easy for folks to jump right back in and pick up where they left off.

I've spoken with a number of folks in the CGA community and voiced my own frustrations and disappointments in myself as a leader and most have replied stating that this community helped them connect with others. I want to focus on that strength and help fellow believers connect with each other. At the same time, I want to create a community where "iron sharpens iron" and we lovingly nudge members toward groups and resources that will help them advance in their efforts to become more like Christ, whether that be our own Verse of the Day forum, posting about why it's important to get involved in a local church, or comforting someone who's grieving deeply or struggling with their faith through our Men's Forums, Ladies Forums, or other forums.
 
I'm with Atown. CGA is pretty dead aside from two games. Not sure it's really that fair to ask members to spend $140 plus the yearly licenses fee when there's still a thread asking for server donations. I'm sure the new software does amazing things but we're not really doing much with what we have now. It's spiffy, it could be pretty but how is it going to solve the lack of involvement by members or help CGA to grow?
I want to start out by clarifying that raising funds for the CGA dedicated server comes first because if there's no server, well, there's nowhere to install the forums.

I posted this thread (1) to solicit input on switching from vB4 to XenForo and (2) to share a less immediate (that is, less immediate than raising the funds for the dedicated server hosting bill) fundraising goal.

I agree that switching to new forums isn't a cure-all. I never intended it to be. I know that most folks still participating on the forums care very little if at all how the forums look as long as they're functional. I'm thinking of folks who are new to our community or visitors who stop by and make decisions based on how dated our forums look.

Now before I say any more, I want to emphasize that I'm approaching this with Scripture regarding man's efforts and God's empowering clearly in mind:

"So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth." 1 Corinthians 3:6, HCSB

I understand Paul is talking about the preaching of the Gospel and listeners' response and following salvation, but I believe the principle holds here as well.

I posted first about raising funds because that was the most immediate and concrete need and we're working with a deadline, but I recognize prayer and an earnest desire in this community to obey God's commands, both general as revealed in Scripture and specific as prompted by the Holy Spirit (the specific always agreeing with the general), is of much, much greater importance.

I confess I haven't been the leader this community deserves. I was selfish with my time, opting to spend that time playing Puzzle & Dragons and posting in that community instead of the one I lead, to provide a recent example.

But please hear my heart and understand I want to create an online home where people who don't feel welcome anywhere else can feel welcome, then participate in our community while God works on their hearts to prepare them to attend and later get involved in a local church teaching sound doctrine from the Bible. I want mature believers who are already involved in their local churches to get involved, speak truth in love and, when necessary, in firmness to fellow believers and also to those wondering what our faith is all about. I want Christians of all levels of maturity to participate, give and receive as their season of life requires, and help this community grow into a supplemental ministry--never a replacement for a local church--that demonstrates in a very real way the love Christ showed us when He lived and died as our sacrifice and redeemed us.

It's a lofty mission statement and I feel I've bungled it far more than I've gotten it right. But this is what haunts me, what drives me to work to keep the CGA going.

If it's clear that God no longer desires to work through this community, then there's no sense in continuing. But, biased as I am, I believe that God can still do great things--mostly small, subtle works that encourage and edify fellow believers and gently nudge those outside the faith toward accepting and following Christ--through the CGA. I don't claim that I know that for certain but I haven't heard that still, small voice tell me to stop, either. So I keep going, hoping fervently that God is stirring the hearts of others to make this community a refuge, even if only for a season, for some and a much-needed place to relax, share, cry, and laugh with fellow believers while speaking Biblical truth to one another.

I look at myself and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not the best man for the job. But I'll keep trying until God makes it clear to me that it's time to quit, whether through the prompting of the Holy Spirit or circumstances that reveal His will.

I love this community. I believe others love it as well. I know we have a treasure trove of wisdom and knowledge in our most mature members. And while I know very well the limitations of digital communication, I also know firsthand how much we can still do even through limited means when God is moving in the hearts of believers to share His Good News, both with each others and those outside the faith.
 
With ya Tek. Just need to add that for now a lot of my personal ministry is tied up in CGA. The prayer forum and VotD is a lot of what is important to me, and a means to aid my brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
Lots of text to read. Must focus. Have strong feelings to share. Must make sure they are an actual response. lol

I think I will start... with Wolfeman's comment. And, fair warning for all that follows, this will probably end up lengthy and have a bit of stream of consciousness about it. So, I mean, continue at your own risk. ;)

"how is it going to solve the lack of involvement by members or help CGA to grow?" I think this is the big question. I agree with Tek that it's better to have a modern forum than a dated one, but there is a bigger issue here. There certainly are some newer members that have stuck around, but many of the mainstays today are people who've been here longer than I have. So, why the shift in forum activity, and is that to be taken as indicative of the state of this culture we've created?

I'm not so sure that forum activity should be thought of as chief. The reality is that most of the games we play either have internal communication (like Guild Wars 2) or are part of a larger service in which much chatter takes place (like everything in Steam, Battle.Net, etc.). There are people I rarely see posts from here, but I talk with them on a significant level every week (and one of them in particular I've spoken with about church planting...with seriousness of contemplation at least equal to whimsical joking), and that was a direct result of the CGA community. I'm immensely grateful for what CGA has been for me.

But CGA forums have become... a vague contact point for me now. The connections made here are very important, but the forums have not been the primary channel by which they take place. On the one hand, this makes sense. I think, on the whole, you can communicate better and more naturally/honestly in person, over Teamspeak, etc. than over a forum. On the other hand, I've seen in myself a shift away from community conversations and toward two-person dialogues.

For the CGA to thrive as a community, I think both elements are important. I'm not sure that we need to have set times for group gaming sessions to thrive, but I think creating an inviting, lively group-community is important, and forums are still, in my opinion, the most practical way to do that. You get anonymity that Facebook groups can't offer. You pay nothing to participate. You get to interact on your time. It's just rock solid. And I think keeping IRC (or something similar) open is good, along with Teamspeak, of course, for real-time communication. Can't tell you how many times I've hopped on Teamspeak at the request of others just to sit and chat. And I think when you have these things in place, the more one-on-one dialogue will naturally come out of it as people continue to take interest in the well-being of each other, and it's in this context that I think the mutual-challenge of living out salvation can be strongest.

So, there are my thoughts on the liveliness of CGA. Do I have a fix to bolster activity here? Nope. I've been checking new posts more frequently, though, and adding comments, even if not particularly meaningful ones, to threads where I see fit. I think seeing more of that in general could help.

Now, to the issue of cost, yeah, that's a new fee to shell out hard earned Simoleons on. I'm not too worried about setting it as a fundraising goal, though, especially if it's presented as an important-but-secondary goal. And, while it is money, it's not really a huge expense. I mean, it breaks down to a little over two dozen members offering five bucks. That's not bad for a major overhaul of our forum system, and it's a small expense for a major step in the direction of getting our community's tech to be a bit more contemporary.

Now, as to Tek's comments, first of all: You're a fine leader, Tek, and I mean that in the praising sense of "fine." You, like many others, are busy. Like ATown said, life, wife, job, and kids. Still, never once have I thought you a poor fit for the shoes, and your determination and vision continue to be remarkable and key to CGA's continuance as a meaningful internet-based ministry. But you're not alone. You have a team, and my high praise to the other leaders (formal and informal), too. The other leaders get to share the burden of helping CGA thrive--the hard part of the job description. ;)

Not looking to claim the mantle of being a leader around here, but I could say the same things you have about investing in this whole shindig. I could have posted more. I could have done things differently. And so the laments go. But the reality is that we can't change the way things have been. (We should also not fool ourselves into assuming that any one of us is so powerful in influencing all the folk here who also have lives, wives, kids, jobs, schools, etc. to suddenly present a visibly thriving community.) There's not point in beating ourselves up, only in getting up and moving forward. I'm not saying that means you have to stop posting on PAD forums to post here. I'm saying that we, the community, get to rediscover together what it means to be a missional community functioning in our little subculture of gamers connected through the internet regardless of lot in life.

As to the rest of your post, I'm on your page. It's a good goal to update our software. As a manifestation of the church, we should be able to offer something PAD forums can't regardless of what tech we're using, but it is still good to remove obstacles for people. Remove the barrier of entry, so to speak.

And the vision you have for CGA's continued importance as a significant ministry is excellent. It's a vision I can still totally get behind. :D Ursen's post of honestly pointing out that it is significant for his personal ministries is just another testament to this vision having already made (and still continuing to make) a real difference.

It is my humble opinion that CGA is still a long ways from having reached the end of its merit. It's just a time in which we have to put new effort into demonstrating intentional missional community.

But we can do that together. :D
 
Last edited:
I haven't forgotten about this thread.

And I'm still willing to cover the cost of the XenForo license myself.

I may make an executive decision soon and purchase the package and request Lloren's amazing technical skills to install it and migrate the current forums data. :D

I really think we'd all enjoy XF far more than vB4 (though I know that's not really saying much, given how dated vB4 looks and feels)...
 
Honestly Tek I'm one of those you mentioned that does not care what a forum looks like as long as it works (well if it's white text on black I have trouble reading it but other than readability I don't care). If there were security or performance concerns with vbulletin I'd be all for it. I'm not really in the know on that stuff but, as an admin at least, I haven't had any. I didn't see any features in XenForo I really want either, sorry. This https://xenforo.com/community/forums/have-you-seen/ has some of the features if people want to look through them (I only glanced) (don't really care for chat either).

Every forum I've used I posted in only because it was related to a subject I wanted to be in involved in not for the forum itself. I found Toj because I googled Christian UT2004 and found an extremely basic web page which listed the UT2004 server. The forums had nothing to do with it. Before joining a forum I will look and see if recent posts have been made but that's only to check whether it is dead and if I'd actually get a response when posting there. Sorry I can't be for it Tek but, at least currently, if you want more business I think we need more product (a game people are actually playing) not better packaging. Sorry just my opinion :( .

Random Thought: We occasionally get people registering who at least appear to be Christians and I tend to wonder what keeps them from posting. Perhaps asking some of them as to why they never posted might produce ideas as to what we can do better? Maybe such feedback could give more impetus to upgrade to XenForo?

Extra Random Thought: When I got Windows 7 I went about making it look like XP as much as possible because performance and clarity>pointless effects on something which is only used to go between programs.
 
Last edited:
I'm with Gerbil. Content over appearance.

I'm active in 3 different forums and regularly browse about 10 others for information (Hyundai, Good Sam, Maytag, ESPN, etc). The 4 Christian gaming community forums I've visited were all found with a google web search for Christian TF2 or Minecraft servers. I'm still active in 2 because of content and members, not bells and whistles or appearance.

We need our forum to be easier to navigate and find information. We also need to be pushing people here from inside the games. Christ Centered Gamer has a 15 post requirement for people to be whitelisted to their minecraft server. I don't play on their minecraft server but I'm still active in their forums because of that requirement. Christian Crew has their website address that pops up in the message feed during TF2 gameplay. I originally got involved in their forums because I played on their server a lot and wanted to know more about the people I played with. Their members were active in the forums so I stayed.

If you want the new forums software, get it. But appearance and gadgets is one of the last things people look for when visiting a forum and will have little effect on CGA in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so no one posting so far is as excited about the prospect of a new forums package as I am. That's fine. I have no problem with that.

So let me rephrase the question: Would anyone object to moving from vBulletin 4 to XenForo?

Since I'd be paying for the license out of my own pocket, I could dodge any possible guilt associated with trying to raise funds for something that's not highly demanded. Put another way, if I'm funding it myself, I don't need to worry whether or not other folks want it badly enough to donate funds.

And I have no problem at all buying the license because I know what a headache it can be to manage an obsolete forums package that its authors have more or less abandoned (minus the occasional security update).

Also, while it seems that no one else minds the look of the default vB4 skin, I do. I don't like it. And I like XF a lot better.

So, on one hand, it seems selfish of me to want to move to a new forums system when there isn't much demand.

On the other hand, if I'm paying for the license, I'm not asking anyone else to fund something I want.

TL;DR: So far, it seems like no one is quite as interested in moving away from vB4 in general and to XenForo specifically. Since there doesn't seem to be overwhelming demand for a new forums package, I'm asking if anyone objects to switching to XF.

And I certainly don't mean to sound like a jerk. In fact, I'm asking these questions specifically because I don't want to dismiss others' opinions.
 
Back
Top