Why were we created?

Examine a hypothesis for me. To whit - if God had died and all that was left was what man had made of the echoes of his message then how would it be different from what we have today?

Because if God won't even talk to you people - the ones who have served him faithfully and against all odds then what chance did I, a sinner and a questioner and a one-time Pagan have of finding him?
 
Eon said:
Examine a hypothesis for me. To whit - if God had died and all that was left was what man had made of the echoes of his message then how would it be different from what we have today?

Because if God won't even talk to you people - the ones who have served him faithfully and against all odds then what chance did I, a sinner and a questioner and a one-time Pagan have of finding him?
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To deal specifically with your hypothesis, much different. The word is very much alive. Not in the beating heart sense you assume all living creatures must have, but in a very spirtual way. It would not have the power to change lives. It would die and would seize to exsist. It would be much different. How, don't know. Kind of like asking yourself, how much different would your life be if your mother died while giving birth (or vice versa for those who have experienced that, if your mother lived while giving birth) Seeing as it hasn't happened, how do you go about determining the outcome of your live down a path that doesn't exist.

God talks, he talks to his people all the time. Now what chances do you have of finding him, about the same as I did. Are you claiming to be a greater sinner then I?
 
hescominsoon said:
I hear from God daily. I may not always listen..that's my fault.
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I will pose the same question to you then.

How do you "hear" from God?

Hearing is defined as:
1 : to perceive or apprehend by the ear
2 : to gain knowledge of by hearing
3 a : to listen to with attention

So what do you "hear"? How do you know it's from God?
 
Gods_Peon said:
God talks, he talks to his people all the time. Now what chances do you have of finding him, about the same as I did. Are you claiming to be a greater sinner then I?
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Do you mean God "talks" to people or do you mean God "communicates" with people?

Talking implies speech.

How does God speak to you? Does He SPEAK to you? How do you know it's actually GOD?
 
The "scientific" definition of hearing requires an organ. But what of the listening mind and spirit? Just because your science can't hear it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And how do I know its God?

I recognize his voice. I recognize his instructions, his promises. The more I listen, the easier it gets. The more I follow, the futher ahead I get. When I ignore or do my own thing, the harder things are, the slower I move, the further behind I fall.
 
Yes, but what do you ACTUALLY perceive? What measurable conscious state change do you experience?

Is it words? Colours? Flavours? Sounds? Lights?

Is it feelings? Or instructions written in letters of fire in the sky that only you can see. I'm sorry for adding this possibility but is it a voice that only you can hear, that tells you to do things or feel things?

I've never felt it from what you call God, although I have had experiences in other places with other... ...things.
 
I refer you to theSpiritual Man by Watchman Nee. It will explain it better than I but this is an old debate,

Spirit, Soul, Flesh. YOu have to believe in a spiritual realm to actully "get" but the priciples are in the Spiritual Man.
 
No offence, but I'd be more interested in hearing it in YOUR words. I don't want to do the correspondance course. ;)
 
Gods_Peon said:
The "scientific" definition of hearing requires an organ. But what of the listening mind and spirit? Just because your science can't hear it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And how do I know its God?

I recognize his voice. I recognize his instructions, his promises. The more I listen, the easier it gets. The more I follow, the futher ahead I get. When I ignore or do my own thing, the harder things are, the slower I move, the further behind I fall.
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Well how do you define the listening mind and spirit? The question still stands, how do "hear"? What do you "hear"? What is this spiritual "voice" that you hear?

You say that you recognize his "voice", there was a time that you had not heard this "voice" before. How did you attribute it to God?
 
MontrezAnthony said:
I hear from God in my Spirit, He speaks to my spirit Man
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What is it that your Spirit "hears"? What does He "speak" to you?

Words? Feelings? What?

How do you know it's God? Why do you attribute this communication to Him?
 
MontrezAnthony said:
I refer you to theSpiritual Man by Watchman Nee. It will explain it better than I but this is an old debate,

Spirit, Soul, Flesh. YOu have to believe in a spiritual realm to actully "get" but the priciples are in the Spiritual Man.
Click to expand...

I agree with Eon, I'm not asking Watchman Nee, I'm asking YOU and the other Christians on this board.
 
Communication can be described as:
"A sending of information from one party to another and a subsequent response from the recieving end."

I pray, God answers. God calls, I answer. When I ask in the name of Jesus, Jesus listens to my request, presents it to the Father, and the Father answers my prayers.

When Jesus calls me, I feel it in my heart. He pulls me, its so hard to desribe. I ask a question and an answer unignorably fills my mind (not always the answer I want). There is genuine communication.

In Myanmar, Bhuddist priests are coming to christ in droves. The testimony of one of them was very powerful: He was very confused as to why after he prayed all day that he never got an answer. In fact, he did not know one monk who had an answer to a prayer (though some of them tried to squeeze fake answers in). One day he discussed this with one of his fellow monks. The monk told him to pray in the name of Jesus next time he prayed. He did and got his answer that day. The next day he tried it again. Again he got an answer. Same thing next day. After that he left the monastery, found some biblical instruction, and now goes around telling monks about the God who answers prayers. That's communication!
 
It seems God is answering prayers preferentially in Myanmar these days then. Because the churches of Europe are emptying and the other faiths gaining converts from Christianity for exactly the opposite reason.

But let me make sure I'm clear. You pray to God and an answer fills your heart - you just 'know' what you need to know. It's not like a great leaden voice fills your head.
 
Sometimes it's a voice, sometimes it's a strong feeling, sometimes it's various electric like shivers up my body in affirmation of something, sometimes it's a direct answer to a question that jumps out at me from the Bible. God communicates in "various ways" (Heb 1:1).

As fo the Chruch of England, they are apostate, dead, corrupted, etc. Only a few humble remain. 2 Chronicles, when Solomon was praying to God, God clearly said "If my people humble themselves and pray I will hear from heaven." The European and North American churches have abandoned God in their prosparity. You can read all about the stereotypes God puts on these churches in Revelation 3. We are unpersecuted and unhardshipped and have thus become corrupt and lukewarm, etc. The church in Asia, Africa, and South America are the Persecuted and Faithful churches, that's wy God is blessing them.

I just got an answered prayer this morning. I needed a debit card before I went to camp tommorow morning (saturday). I ordered it last friday and they said it would be a week or more. I prayed it would be here this morning and when I checked the mail, there it was! God answers big and little prayers alike.

P.S. I probably won't be on the forum until September or later. Nice meeting you guys!
 
Jericho_falls said:
Communication can be described as:
"A sending of information from one party to another and a subsequent response from the recieving end."
Click to expand...

Agreed. You must also agree that this is TOTALLY different than "talking" to God.

I pray, God answers. God calls, I answer. When I ask in the name of Jesus, Jesus listens to my request, presents it to the Father, and the Father answers my prayers.
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This sounds like God simply fulfills your requests, that's not exactly communication. What happens when your prayer ISN'T answered? Do you know what? How does God communicate the reason for not answering a prayer?

When Jesus calls me, I feel it in my heart. He pulls me, its so hard to desribe. I ask a question and an answer unignorably fills my mind (not always the answer I want). There is genuine communication.
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CALL: to speak in a loud distinct voice so as to be heard at a distance

How does Jesus "call" you? How does your heart "listen"?

If you ask yourself a question and answer it yourself, how do you attribute this to a supernatural entity?

You say there is genuine communication, but you haven't told us why you believe that in a convincing manner?

In Myanmar, Bhuddist priests are coming to christ in droves. The testimony of one of them was very powerful: He was very confused as to why after he prayed all day that he never got an answer. In fact, he did not know one monk who had an answer to a prayer (though some of them tried to squeeze fake answers in). One day he discussed this with one of his fellow monks. The monk told him to pray in the name of Jesus next time he prayed. He did and got his answer that day. The next day he tried it again. Again he got an answer. Same thing next day. After that he left the monastery, found some biblical instruction, and now goes around telling monks about the God who answers prayers. That's communication!
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Again, I'm not concerned about anyone else's accounts, I'm talking to YOU and the other members of this board. I'm interested in YOUR interpretations.
 
I mean call in a metaphysical sense. Good grief if religion were purely physical then there'd be no point in classifying it as spiritual! You expect God to work in physical ways? Why should He? He is spirit! He moves in our hearts so that we know beyond fallible science that He is there!
 
Why should He? Because WE ARE PHYSICAL BEINGS WHO CAN ONLY PERCEIVE WHAT OUR SENSES TELL US.

That is why.

Besides, it's not like God doesn't have a history of literally speaking to Humans in the Old Testament, right?

So what is this metaphysical communication like? How/why do you attribute it to God? If it's metaphysical, or supernatural, how can a physical creature understand it?
 
I agree with Dark Virtue, and whilst I admit that this problem is not limited to Christianity, it is still a valid point.

<edited for content> Genesis1315
 
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Let me try and rephrase what Eon said. Why would God create a purely physical creation that is bound by physical laws, that is unable to perceive anything beyond its physical senses, that was meant to rely on logic and reason in its physical brain, AND THEN require it to base its eternal existence on the supernatural?
 
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