Why no non-believers?

Before I continue posting on this, I am curious if this needs to be moved to RD.

Gen

<edit> Not trying to back out of the answer, actually far from it.
 
Genesis1315 said:
Before I continue posting on this, I am curious if this needs to be moved to RD.
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Hm, tough decision. I'll leave that to your discretion, Gen. If you want me to move it, PM me and I will.
 
Vayle, I believe that CGA/ToJ and its affiliate gaming guilds are as much (or even more) about fellowship as they are about witnessing. The guild allows us a safe place when we are in the gaming world and a core group of others that share the faith. It also allows our conversaton to be about prayer requests and other faith-related topics, in the game.

I group all the time with non-Christians. But witnessing in a game is a very touchy thing. There are places for everything, but most people play games to have a brief escape from reality and would not take kindly to being "preached to" there. We do witness by our acts and our nature while in groups with non-Christians. In games such as Guild Wars, more of my grouping is with random people than it is with all guildies.

So, basically the point of what I'm saying is, the leadership of CGA has set forth rules to make the guilds follow the tenants of a church. I have no problem with this and use the guild as a place to form lasting and helpful Christian friendships with a lot of fellowship and uplifitng support for my daily walk with the Lord. We don't shun playing with non-Christians in the least, but as non-Christians there is no viable reason they should be allowed membership in a Christian guild.

vayle said:
Not on the MMORPG guilds, although I'm still struggling with why Forgiven is an exception. And it seems that non-Christians are welcome in the forums, but not really.

Just forget it. I am considering just going someplace else.
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I also am not sure why you think non-Christians are not welcome in the forums. Have you visited the Religious Discussions forum? There are several non-Christians who post regularly and engage in mature discussion and debate about our faith.
 
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7F and The Forgiven leadership are only open to believers, our membership is not. I am a firm believer in leadership having to demonstrate Christ-like behavoir and that is simply not possible without Jesus. The membership in our guild is about being an active witness and social circle. I encourage our believers in our guild to bring their family and close friends, people they feel they are close to and would like for them to see a Godly example.
 
I agree with Mr Slice. I remember what I was trying to say earlier.

I believe our witnessing should be done by our ATTITUDES and our EXAMPLE on the game servers or game, whatever. Rather than by typing them: Hey, you should get to know jesus!

lol

That's what i was saying. However, that doesn't mean we are tightlipped. Quite the opposite. I think that we should MAINLY use our atittudes and example as our main suit in A GAME.
 
But Hawk, that is exactly my point. According to CGA rules, that is not acceptable. It says every member must accept the profession of faith. I have no objection to the way Forgiven is set up. I am asking exactly why no one else can be like that? How come you all are exceptions to that rule?

I'm sorry, but a lot of you have totally missed my main point. You aren't even really addressing the problem.

And yes, SilentAssassin, in my mind I have that question as well. Are y'all really playing to fellowship and minister to other people, or mainly for your own enjoyment? Does playing with all Christians somehow make you feel like it's ok to do that? I went to a Christian college. I know/knew lots and lots of people who always stayed in their safe little Christian world and never really knew what the world was like outside of their Christian circles. In fact, I had several people tell me that I could never be as good of a Christian as them because I don't come from a Christian family. Including a professor...

Jesus didn't just go door to door and witness. He got out there and spent a lot of time where the non-Christians were. Yes, he did spend private time with His disciples, but it was a minority of His time, not a majority. Do a study on it in the gospels if you don't believe me.

Is this where you spend a majority of your time? Why?
 
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vayle said:
But Hawk, that is exactly my point. According to CGA rules, that is not acceptable. It says every member must accept the profession of faith. I have no objection to the way Forgiven is set up. I am asking exactly why no one else can be like that? How come you all are exceptions to that rule?

I'm sorry, but a lot of you have totally missed my main point. You aren't even really addressing the problem.

And yes, SilentAssassin, in my mind I have that question as well. Are y'all really playing to fellowship and minister to other people, or mainly for your own enjoyment? Does playing with all Christians somehow make you feel like it's ok to do that? I went to a Christian college. I know/knew lots and lots of people who always stayed in their safe little Christian world and never really knew what the world was like outside of their Christian circles. In fact, I had several people tell me that I could never be as good of a Christian as them because I don't come from a Christian family. Including a professor...

Jesus didn't just go door to door and witness. He got out there and spent a lot of time where the non-Christians were. Yes, he did spend private time with His disciples, but it was a minority of His time, not a majority. Do a study on it in the gospels if you don't believe me.

Is this where you spend a majority of your time? Why?
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1. Vayle believes that CGA is being hypocritical by allowing non-believers in The Forgiven guilds but not in any other game chapter guilds. None of us can answer for this except Tek. I understand your concern about this, Vayle, and hopefully you'll get a clear answer as to why this is the case soon.

2. I can't help but feel when reading your post that you are calling us out. You are telling us that we are wrong for not wanting to spend the majority of our time in the game world witnessing to others. I simply do not agree with that and never will. Several of us have explained how we "witness" in the game: our actions, our words, giving away items and helping others with no expectation of payment in return. We witness by our play and let others say, "Hey, that Christian guild is really nice. They always help out." Then when someone asks why, we get to share the Lord with them.

It is NOT our place to force God down people's throats. I have never been in favor of that in the real world or virtual one. People have to be open to the Lord before you can reach them. If you choose to witness exclusively through a video game, that is your choice and your conviction. It is not mine. I think that you should take a step back and evaluate how your expectation of being a Christian gamer differs from some of the rest of us, and then you can make your decision. I don't want you to feel like you're being run off, but I also don't want you to think that this entire flourishing and blessed group is wrong and needs to be overhauled.
 
Genesis1315 said:
As a believer, I would think that one would be careful in forming close relationships with those who do not believe lest they be pulled away from their faith.
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Genesis1315 said:
"Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
1 Corinthians 15:33
"He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed." Proverbs 13:20
"Do not enter the path of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of evil. Avoid it, do not travel on it; turn away from it and pass on." Proverbs 4:14-15
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Do you have any unbelieving members in your immediate family?

You are quoting those verses as examples of us not associating with unbelievers. However, these verses do not specifically mention unbelievers. They mention evil people, or fools. While certainly some unbelievers are fools or evil, unbelievers are not automatically so. For instance, my father is a Universalist Unitarian. He is also a more "godly" individual than many Christians I know. He lives by his conscience and he obeys many Old Testament laws without even realizing it. There are also evil or foolish Christians. I know some. It is better to associate with people like my father than with foolish Christians.
 
Mr_Slice said:
1. Vayle believes that CGA is being hypocritical by allowing non-believers in The Forgiven guilds but not in any other game chapter guilds. None of us can answer for this except Tek.
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There are no special allowances being made for 7F. I was unaware until recently that 7F's WoW guild, The Forgiven, allowed non-Christians as members.

7F previously centered around Counter-Strike and Counter-Strike: Source. The MMO guild structure is an entirely different scenario from the CS community as one can interact just as easily with clan members as non-members in CS; many activities in MMO guilds revolve around guild membership.

I'll need to discuss this point with the leadership of 7F at length. 7F is one of the oldest CGA affiliates and I'd like to explore various possibilities before handing down a decision.

Please do not expect a decision on this immediately as I am starting fall classes this Monday (August 22) and already have a full load of tasks to manage in CGA and ToJ.
 
In response....

Do I have nonbelieving family members? Yes
Do I associate with them much beyond family gatherings? No
Do I have close relationships with those family members who do not believe? No

Does it also break my heart that we have very different beliefs? Oh yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt.


My walk with the Lord is something that is very important to me. My family members who share a similar belief also place their walks in a very high regard. Yes, I know it seems harsh to say what I said about not keeping close relationships with those who do not share a faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but I have two things to consider. One I posted earlier, how is it effecting my testimony. If I go to bars, smoke, drink, etc (as one family member does who is not a Christian), what would that say about how I view God's word. Even to put myself in that place would allow for that perception. And living to Glorify God presents enough challenges that putting myself in such a location would only make it even more difficult. The second is, I want to learn more about my Lord. I want to have a closer relationship with Him. Being around those who share my beliefs will help me to grow and will hold me accountable to His Word.

I think our (fellow believers) should live for the Glory of God. Yes, some behaviours are significantly to the contrary of the Word. For those things that are not contrary to the Word of God, I do some because I enjoy them, others because I have to. Regardless of my level of satisfaction, they all should be done for His Glory - NOT MINE! (hint - Cleaning the bathroom, do not enjoy, playing board games, do enjoy (all references are separate from playing computer games))

In closing, I have this to say. I terribly wish my brother would accept Christ and I am referring to my biological brother. It tears me up that we cannot spend more time together. I also think this thread has two definative trends. The trend on relationships with Non-Believers should probably go to RD. The concerns with the CGA charter should probably be addressed privately with Tek.

Sorry for the delay in repsonding
Gen
 
Hawk and I met to discuss 7F's membership policies and the Alliance charter earlier this evening. During the meeting, Hawk confirmed that all 7F members are Christian. For more information, please see the "TRiBForCe and 7F membership" thread in 7F's General Forum. In the same thread, Hawk clearly states:
While this WoW guild is under the strong influence of the TRiBForCe and share some of the same leadership, it does operate separately.
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This means that while non-Christians may be allowed to join The Forgiven under special circumstances, only Christians are eligible to join 7F.

7F remains a Christian Gamers Alliance affiliate. No changes have been made to the CGA charter.

Thread re-opened.
 
Thank-you Tek7 for the chance to clear this up. If there are others who have further questions regarding TRiBForCe, please feel free to contact me directly. I would also like to state that all our existing members in The Forgiven are saved and love the Lord. We have about 35-ish members and growing weekly. I think less time needs to be spent discussing this and more time experiencing it. It is too easy to sit back and judge someone or a group by mire words. Take it a step further, play with them, engage one on one, development relationship, learn about them.

God bless!
 
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