Why do you believe in God?

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 18 2004,3:41)]I also don't agree with Peon saying that he can't see the wind.  Wind is observable by senses other than sight (touch for instance).  Besides, have you ever seen a tornado or hurricane?  THAT is wind.
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not to belabor a point...

but the visual aspects of a tornado or a hurricane are not wind. Rather they are the effects of wind upon other things.

The spout of a tornado is dust/debris/water being propelled by wind.

The visual aspect of a hurricane (of wind) is the slant of rain, the swaying of trees and powerlines, the blowing of debris.

Basically, these visual cues are caused by wind, not wind itself.


of course you are perfectly correct in saying that you can sense wind by other senses than sight.... (I would have to say just touch and hearing....)
 
Keep my honest
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You are correct.

The dirt and debris aren't flying through the air on their own though, they are moved about due to wind. So while not being able to see the WIND, we see its affects on the environment. We KNOW its wind because we have proof and evidence.

The same, however, can not be said for miracles evidencing God's existence.
 
Kidan is right. What you see with tornados and hurricanes is nothing more then the effect of wind on objects. Like a rustling of leaves in a light wind. Except the wind is so powerfull, that it transplants houses.

I've spent a lot of time on farms, alot of dust farms. You could see little microbursts coming off the fields. You know, they look like little tornadoes. No storm systems, no clouds in the sky. Just weird weather because the black ground heats up the air. But if it wasn't for the dust, you would never know those little tornadoes were out there, unless you were standing in it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The same, however, can not be said for miracles evidencing God's existence.
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You still haven't explained the little experience I shared.

You may say it takes alot of faith to say it is a miracle and proof for me of Gods existance. I say it takes as much of the same evidence to say that it is not.
 
Can you at least admit that I was right about wind being experienced by senses other than sight? Come on, toss me a bone
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How can I comment on your "miracle"?

I wasn't there.

I do believe that you aren't a liar, so I believe you saw something that wasn't easily explainable.

What you actually saw, I don't know. I don't have the particulars. Could there be any NON-miraculous reasons for it happening?

Why though, did God bend a tree for you? Why are miracles so out of context?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I say it takes as much of the same evidence to say that it is not.
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What "evidence" did you actually gather?
 
Do you gather evidence of all things that happen in your day? Maybe something like watching water travel up a mountain to you requires evidence gathering. Do you bring a camera with you everywhere just in case? How about weather instrutments? Bring measuring devices everywhere? Unlikely, very doubtful.

And you would likely not tell very many people because they would all think you are some nut job. Water traveling up a mountain, right... screwball. But if you did see it, what then? You have no evidence that you saw it, and if you came to the conclusion that this could only be of God and accepted it, how would you answer your own questions here? How would you prove to Jim what you saw and that it was of God and that you are now a believer?

Think about it from the other side of the fence for a moment. How would you even begin to explain the impossible to a non-beleiver? To a freethinker?
 
Call me gullible, but I think I can gather you are not a liar. Not to suppose too much, but you never struck me as dishonest.

However, your posts about how many miracles we chalk up to luck or chance can work the opposite. How many times can a random chance event be chalked up to God? How many times do we hear of little things, like praying that someone gets picked for a job and they get picked. Even smaller things and seemingly insignificant things can be thought to be prayers answered.

Just as Logic and Reason can cloud out miracles, so do miracles often throw perfectly acceptable explanations out the window.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 18 2004,4:36)]Do you gather evidence of all things that happen in your day? Maybe something like watching water travel up a mountain to you requires evidence gathering. Do you bring a camera with you everywhere just in case? How about weather instrutments? Bring measuring devices everywhere? Unlikely, very doubtful.

And you would likely not tell very many people because they would all think you are some nut job. Water traveling up a mountain, right... screwball. But if you did see it, what then? You have no evidence that you saw it, and if you came to the conclusion that this could only be of God and accepted it, how would you answer your own questions here? How would you prove to Jim what you saw and that it was of God and that you are now a believer?

Think about it from the other side of the fence for a moment. How would you even begin to explain the impossible to a non-beleiver? To a freethinker?
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Let's assume for a second that you saw something like a tree bending or a waterfall going up instead of down.

WHAT leads you to believe it was a miracle from God?

Do you laugh at people that see Christ in a tortilla or do you believe that is a miracle?

I will be completely honest and say I'm not sure what I'd think in the same situation, I've never experienced anything like that. However, as I have stated, I would have a hard time inferring it was a message from God. Which is why I asked why you thought it was a miracle from God. What was its purpose? And why a tree or water? Why not His image in a tortilla or a stained glass window? Why not YAHWEH spelled out in the clouds?
 
How so what?

Wind is a natural element.

Miracles are what? Suspensions of the laws of nature. Something that has not been evidenced.
 
My reasoning for believing, for what it is worth...
It is simply a feeling. I know, that I know, that I know! I believe I came to this place of belief by God's wooing! I have been encouraged to join some lady friends to keep a diary of the things I feel are clearly of God. Yes, I have moments of doubt and fear, so I think this is an excellent idea to remind me in those times. These are little, simple things that speak to my heart in a wonderful way.

This is one of my all time favorite happenings. I won't bore you with more than one, and I want you to know while you may consider it a simple thing, it meant magnitudes to me. This type thing happens on a regular basis and I cannot explain it away as coincidence. And before I begin, what if I did not have these heart felt love happenings from the LORD? I would be in hopes I would still be like the tree planted by the river of water in Psalm 1....
I was going through a rough time in my life. I stepped outside to see a sparrow sitting on the steps. I went in, got a cage and the song, His Eye is on the Sparrow came to me. This lifted my Spirit so! I scooped the bird up and felt that the LORD was telling me that yes, He would take care of me and anything concerning me and my family. When the now x got home, he looked at the bird and gave me all the reasons that we could not have a wild bird. I was thinking he must be hurt because he had allowed me to go get the cage and scoop him up without moving. When my husband opened the cage, away he soared!
The HEAVENS declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork. Psalm 19:1
I love nature, therefore, God reminds me many times by nature, of Him and His loving care. In addition, at times, Scripture comes to life for me. They aren't simply words on a page, but lessons in life, a reassurance, if you will.
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. Matthew 10:29

I hope this post will not be considered disrespectful to you, DV. It is heartfelt and is not meant to be. I read your opening a couple of times, and I think you simply want an honest answer. I can only answer my why. I really think the things of God are individual. He will need to be more logical to you, while dealing with my romantic heart and feelings, is how He blesses me!
 
Marcy, when have you ever been disrespectful?

Your post is welcomed and appreciated! Thank you for sharing.

I would like to touch on your closing comments. You said, "I really think the things of God are individual. He will need to be more logical to you, while dealing with my romantic heart and feelings, is how He blesses me!"

When I mention things like this, I get jumped on and belittled. WHY should God lower Himself to my level some have said. I should be the one going to Him, not the other way around. Ad nauseum. This is the switch I have talked about. God knows what it will take to convince each of us to believe in Him. All it takes is a flip of that switch. As you said, for you, it was romantic, for me, it will need to be logical.

Once more, I must say that I do not actively refute God's existence. On the contrary, I cannot believe in God without reason, and He has yet to show me any reason or evidence to believe in Him.

Until that time comes I will not, can not, in good conscience, believe in Him.
 
You once said, you were once a very good Christian.  During that time on what were you basing your lifestyle? Did you have the same questions that you have now and if not, how did you answer? Why did you believe in God?
 
Being a woman I have been admonished not to fall into the category of loving a man as I would a house, with intentions of him being a fixer-upper! Nevertheless...
Faith is believing what is simply, seemingly, too good to be true:) Marcylene
 
I was basing my lifestyle on God and the Bible.

My family raised me as a nondenominational Christian. As I grew and began to understand things, I wanted to prove WHY I believed in the things I did and not take them for granted. The church I went to enforced that. PROVE things to yourself, don't just believe in it because it came from a podium.

So that's what I did. And that's when I began seeing the cracks that eventually led to the destruction of my faith.

I believed in God because, at the time, it made sense. But there was never any proof of his existence, everything rested on Faith. When that Faith was gone, there was nothing to support the belief in a god.

I never saw anything that amounted to a miracle. The prayers that mattered were never answered.

All of this took many years, until, well, here I am
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Marcylene @ Oct. 18 2004,5:54)]Being a woman I have been admonished not to fall into the category of loving a man as I would a house, with intentions of him being a fixer-upper!
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And that is very good advice!
 
Well, the good news is DV, is that not all is lost for you.

Even doubting Thomas got his proof and he believed whole heartedly after receiving it.

Like it or not, we have rubbed off on you. Every post of yours here and every reply of ours have let a little light in your life (Jim and Mechboys too). When you do finally receive your proof, your chance to put your hands through the holes in Jesus' hands so to speak, you will still have to make a choice to accept it or not. I pray that you do.

That evidence may well not come until Jesus comes back to set up his millenial reign, maybe. Maybe it will be a dream that just touches you, or something off the wall or on the wall for that matter. Maybe for you, he will come and have a nice little chat in your living room. I don't know what it will be. God is not above coming down to our level. But it sure seems that you have been spending a lot of time ensuring that you will not be receptive to it when (if) it does come your way.

Just a thought.
 
You leave very little room for God in your understanding of why or how. Just because you understand or can logically reason something doesn't mean that that particular something is not of God.

Just because you understand how gravity works, doesn't mean that God didn't create the laws or rules by which it functions.
 
Yes, my preachers have admonished us to prove what he preaches/teaches by the Book. A preacher worth his salt will ask that of his congregation! They are in good company too, this was encouraged by my man Paul, the light to the Gentiles:)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

I have seen preachers with all sorts of books, non-Christian and they study from them. I do not think I would care to do that for several reasons. I will prove what they say by the Bible! Searching is good, yes...but what would cause you to lose your faith? How/why would anyone lose faith?
 
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