What is the most important issue facing the Church today.

What is the most important issue facing the American Church today?

  • Total voters
    31
OK, I'm gonna try something new.

Ok, so, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is:

The Bible is the Word of God, and speaks for God and Jesus.

The Bible is authoritative because it is the word of God.

You believe the Holy Spirit guides peoples' interpretations of Scripture, and that no interpretation should contradict it.

All believers are authoritative because they have the Holy Spirit in them.

You agree that many Christian denominations hold different doctrines which are contradictory to each other (even going so far as to point out sometimes even two Catholics, or even two BELIEVERS hold different doctrines).

You say an incomplete Gospel is a bad Gospel.

And you say Wesley and Calvin did not believe they had the complete gospel, just potentially correct ones (with differences regarding justification and salvation). They both believed they had "the core of the Gospel", whatever that is.

You also say Scripture does not fully explain the mechanism of salvation, and that the Gospel doesn't explain it (and probably other finer points of theology), just the "core principles".

Hmmm...

So how we are saved isn't a matter of "core" importance? Sounds pretty important to me.

It seems strange, to me, to say that the Holy Spirit guides our interpretations to be correct. Yet you also seem to say two of the greatest Protestant teachers in history did not think their interpretation to be authoritative - that is, inspired by the Holy Spirit. (The way Calvin viewed Lutheran and Catholic doctrine - for example regarding the Eucharist - seems to contradict this idea.)

It seems strange to say all believers are called to preach the Gospel, and then say they can't even agree on what the Gospel is constituted of on more than a basic level.

It seems strange to say that for the past 2000 years we haven't been able to figure out anything more than some "core principles" - and not even those, for our Mormon, JW, Oneness Pentecostal, Christian Scientist, and Swedenborgian brothers also believe in the sole placement of Scripture and that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit to unerringly interpret Scripture. Yet they cannot even agree Jesus is the Son of God.

It seems strange to say the Holy Spirit gives us certainty... yet we cannot be sure of anything, not even what the "core" of Christian doctrine is.

Something seems to be missing from this equation. Doesn't it seem?
 
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GenghisKhan44 said:
You agree that many Christian denominations hold different doctrines which are contradictory to each other (even going so far as to point out sometimes even two Catholics, or even two BELIEVERS hold different doctrines).
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Major vs. minor.

GenghisKhan44 said:
They both believed they had "the core of the Gospel", whatever that is.
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Does the Gospel include "Calvinism" or "Armenianism"? I don't explain such things to non-believers when witnessing. Why? Because it isn't essential for salvation. The essentials are the "core" of the Gospel. Those there cannot be any disagreement on. We can debate everything else (as we do here).

GenghisKhan44 said:
You also say Scripture does not fully explain the mechanism of salvation, and that the Gospel doesn't explain it (and probably other finer points of theology), just the "core principles".

Hmmm...

So how we are saved isn't a matter of "core" importance? Sounds pretty important to me.
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Okay. Explain the mechanism of salvation. I hope you know I am not talking about Christ dying for our sins and repenting and believing on Him. I am talking about the actual mechanism. Are we picked before we were born based upon God's knowledge of our choices or based upon a criteria known only to Him?

GenghisKhan44 said:
It seems strange, to me, to say that the Holy Spirit guides our interpretations to be correct. Yet you also seem to say two of the greatest Protestant teachers in history did not think their interpretation to be authoritative - that is, inspired by the Holy Spirit. (The way Calvin viewed Lutheran and Catholic doctrine - for example regarding the Eucharist - seems to contradict this idea.)
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What I am saying is that what they were arguing about didn't matter so much (I suppose some will disagree with me). One does not need to know TULIP to be saved.

GenghisKhan44 said:
It seems strange to say all believers are called to preach the Gospel, and then say they can't even agree on what the Gospel is constituted of on more than a basic level.
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Again, you have swapped doctrine and Gospel.

GenghisKhan44 said:
It seems strange to say that for the past 2000 years we haven't been able to figure out anything more than some "core principles" - and not even those, for our Mormon, JW, Oneness Pentecostal, Christian Scientist, and Swedenborgian brothers also believe in the sole placement of Scripture and that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit to unerringly interpret Scripture. Yet they cannot even agree Jesus is the Son of God.
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I do not claim brothership with those mentioned. I vehemently reject their gospel as another gospel (Galations 1).

GenghisKhan44 said:
It seems strange to say the Holy Spirit gives us certainty... yet we cannot be sure of anything, not even what the "core" of Christian doctrine is.
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Who is not sure?
 
Impossible, to read this and and be a Bible believing, follower of the one true God and not want to debate with some of the ideas I have read. But, I will resist as the orginator asked us not too.

I chose false teaching, why?
All other problems fall under this topic.
God teaches through his word, as it says. (Lamp unto my feet, light unto my path). But, people dont like his teaching because it doesnt please the flesh in which they live. This is the war that we are involved in.
Truth is a hard pill to swallow, so many look to find that which agrees with them. (denominations)
So, you can classify Christians in two catergories, 1) those that fit the Bible to their lives 2) those who fit their lives to the Bible.
You have to decide which you are, and denial doesnt change truth.
As for me, I want to know if I am wrong today. I would hate to get to judgement day and find out I was wrong and have missed a lifetime of blessings.
I see false teachings everywhere, and it makes me angry...Let me remind you of a little fact. Satan used God' word against Jesus in the wilderness after his 40/40 fast. Satan believes in God he even knows him personally. Satan knows God's word, and uses it for his purposes. So, I would suggest you get to know God personally and get to know his word throughly as well, God gave you the tools you need...use them and stop waiting for the man in the pulpit, (who in this day and time probably shouldnt be there) to tell you what to believe. Go to the source, he will never fail you.

But, I must say I agree with one poster. The cause of it all is sin...
 
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I checked "Consumerism". I think the church today (in the USA) has so much great teaching available. Churches galore, bible schools, christian gaming forums, fellowships, christian music, radio, books, and Bibles! The average American has 9 Bibles to every 0 Bible a 3rd world pastor has.

Now some of this is bad teaching, but the most part there is a TON of solid teaching available around you if you look. So why do we have so many issues today?

I feel like a good summary of our religious nation is Isaiah 29:13 or Matthew 15:8 "These people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;" The heart is choked out, useless, and not fit for work I liken the American church (and I lump myself into this) as the seed that fell on thorny soil. "Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity" Luke 8

The pleasures of life.... cares and riches.... sounds familiar.
 
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Again, lemme see if I understand you:

So you're saying whether God reaches out and grabs you first (Calvin), or whether you reach out and grab Him first (Arminius), or both, or neither, or something else, is of absolutely no import?

I disagree, because if I were told God loved me and wanted me to be with Him forever, my first question would be: "Ok. How do I do it?" Calvinism, Arminianism, and other doctrines of salvation give us the groundwork for understanding how we are saved.

If we are to be saved by God, one would at least like to know how it's going to work - whether any effort is required of me or not during any point of the process. And if so, what efforts? What will God require of me, and what will He be lenient towards? And such things.

That is why doctrine is so important. It lets you know you are doing God's will, or if you aren't, how to get back on the right track. The most important doctrine, of course, being to do all things in Love. The Greatest Commandments are to Love God and Love our neighbors. Without love, you are a noisy gong and nothing.

The rest of doctrine is just a definition of what Love is and how it is carried out. It's essential because it answers the question "What is love?".

So, then, what is salvation? How does it work? Well, we could argue all day til we are blue in the face. And if I don't stop you at the pass we probably will. We could argue every doctrine, discipline, and thought of humanity until we were long, long dead. But every single doctrine basically comes down to one question:

Why on Earth should I listen to you, or you listen to me, or anyone listen to anyone regarding doctrine, or what they define doctrine as? Prove your authority to teach me and I will follow what you say the Holy Spirit teaches you to the ends of the Earth.

And that brings us back to what I think is the sole problem with Protestantism: authority to teach. Solve that, and then we can get down to answering any other questions you have.

What I am saying is that what they were arguing about didn't matter so much (I suppose some will disagree with me). One does not need to know TULIP to be saved.
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That is your opinion, disagreed with by many staunch Calvinists. Prove you have the authority to say they are wrong, and I will believe it.

Again, you have swapped doctrine and Gospel.
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Again, who are you to say doctrine is not part of the Gospel?

Prove your authority, if you have any.

I do not claim brothership with those mentioned. I vehemently reject their gospel as another gospel (Galations 1).
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Who are you to say they are wrong? On what authority do you say they are wrong?

Anyone can say they speak for Jesus, or they speak for the Holy Spirit.

But proof. Do you have proof you speak for Him?

Let's start with history. I challenge you to show me, historically, what Christianity looked like from the time of the Apostles, through the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, to the Enlightenment and the present day. Show me what the Apostles were taught and what they taught, and show me what persisted after they died.

Show me that, Patriot. Show me history.
 
Okay - Patriot and Genghis...

/bump - back to the original poll and question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icthus
I think this might be a worth while discussion...

Vote and then tell us why.

No yelling or debating please...

- note the "no yelling or debating please" portion. Just your vote and your perspective. Those have been interesting.
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If you really want to continue the debate - go PM or start a new thread.
 
i think the biggest would be false teaching...particularly with the emphasis of the Emerging (Emergent) Church. Those doctrines are really destructive to sound teaching and what Scripture really says and it's so prevalent...the seeds of those doctrines could be affecting your church and you wouldn't even know it because it starts out so subtle.
 
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