What I think about Open RvR

coldturkey49

coldturkey49

New Member
As of last night, I finally have it. In one word, HORRIBLE.

But let me explain why...



My main is a White Lion(Ilya)(was level 31 not to long ago), and my lead alt is a lvl 20 Iron Breaker, so I can tier 3 or tier 2 with him.
Aka, I play melee classes.
In order to do anything worth while, I have to be on the front line as melee.
No sitting in the back for 'uber DPS'.

And here the problem I have with open RvR develops.
The zerg that is ORvR eats melee classes for lunch.
You die all the time. Which means you dont get jack for experience.
You charge, you die, you rez, repeat.
It is really frustrating, not mention boring and pointless.

Take a keep for Exp? Righhhtttt.
The experience for taking a keep is almost non-existent.



And as for the 'phat loot', out of all the keeps I have taken, with all my toons, I have gotten 1 green bag. Just ONE.
Gear is a joke in ORvR.
Experience is a joke in ORvR.
:mad:

Realm Pride? Laughable!
I log in the next day, and guess what?
Overnight, Destro re-took some/all the keeps. :(



I just do not understand the point of ORvR pre lvl 40 as a melee class.
You get better Exp and loot in Scenarios/PvE.

Am I the only person who struggles with this?
Does every body but me love ORvR?
 
I am not in my 30s nor am I 40, but I must say that if you "You charge, you die, you rez, repeat", then something is wrong. There's a lot more to RVR han just throwing people at your opponent.

I am not sure who the leader was or what the circumstances of the fights were, but my guess is that someone was not doing something right. I am NOT pointing fingers. Just my opinion.

Also, the outcomes will differ greatly on what kind of group you are fighting and also what your group's make-up is.

Don't give up just because you had a few bad RVR days. It will get better as everyone in the guild levels up and gets a hold on how RVR works.
 
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Open RvR that is zerg back and forth is pointless.

Last night, I ran into a group hoping to take a keep in HIgh Pass.

I joined them, then made a "Call to Arms" for all T3. We ended up taking all capture points and all but one keep in the entire game for T3. We got stuck on the northern keep in Averlorn.

Averlorn is the back and forth zerg fest for the uninformed. It can be fun for a bit, but the points and experience are so low due to the constant dying a long term effort there is some times counter productive.

Some of the best time in open RvR are when there is resistance and fighting occurs at BO's or keeps. Especially when the fights are balanced. Most keep fights are not balanced still due to some issues with pathing and glitching.

Open RvR with a group of friends and a group with good leadership can be an absolute blast. Especially for melee being used correctly.
 
Icthus said:
Some of the best time in open RvR are when there is resistance and fighting occurs at BO's or keeps. Especially when the fights are balanced. Most keep fights are not balanced still due to some issues with pathing and glitching.

Open RvR with a group of friends and a group with good leadership can be an absolute blast. Especially for melee being used correctly.
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
coldturkey49 said:
As of last night, I finally have it. In one word, HORRIBLE.

But let me explain why...



My main is a White Lion(Ilya)(was level 31 not to long ago), and my lead alt is a lvl 20 Iron Breaker, so I can tier 3 or tier 2 with him.
Aka, I play melee classes.
In order to do anything worth while, I have to be on the front line as melee.
No sitting in the back for 'uber DPS'.

And here the problem I have with open RvR develops.
The zerg that is ORvR eats melee classes for lunch.
You die all the time. Which means you dont get jack for experience.
You charge, you die, you rez, repeat.
It is really frustrating, not mention boring and pointless.

Take a keep for Exp? Righhhtttt.
The experience for taking a keep is almost non-existent.



And as for the 'phat loot', out of all the keeps I have taken, with all my toons, I have gotten 1 green bag. Just ONE.
Gear is a joke in ORvR.
Experience is a joke in ORvR.
:mad:

Realm Pride? Laughable!
I log in the next day, and guess what?
Overnight, Destro re-took some/all the keeps. :(



I just do not understand the point of ORvR pre lvl 40 as a melee class.
You get better Exp and loot in Scenarios/PvE.

Am I the only person who struggles with this?
Does every body but me love ORvR?
Click to expand...

I play a level 34 Witch Hunter (Kutluch), and I have the same problem. I've found that it's best not to charge into them, but stay near the casters as support for if their MDPS or tanks charge.

If I do charge, I can usually take out 1 caster before I go down. But that doesn't really help the team all that much if they have 5+ casters.

As for the loot rolls, don't pay any attention to them, they are horribly bugged. I got 2nd and 3rd contribution rate as a chicken, proving that it either doesn't count everything or randomly chooses for the contribution ratings.

I don't do ORVR often, but when I do I find it to be pretty fun, especially if there are 1-2 solo sorcs running around...
 
Hey,

I have observed some of the same things about oRvR and agree with many of your points. It's horrible for XP and loot bags are hardly worth the time. The only justifiable rewards that I have seen is in the renown XP when we are successful.

Imo, oRvR at tier 3 is really just a break from the same ol' and not a main focus for me even with my caster. If a keep has a decent amount of ranged dps, it is pointless for a tank without coming up with some really uber siege tactics. (which I havent witnessed yet)

However, I have a suggestion that perhaps other tanks may or may not disagree with? I had a lvl 50 mercenary in DAoC and I had really terrible experiences in RvR with it EXCEPT when I ran with other tanks and healing.

So if I could give some advice, I would say that tanks in oRvR have their niche when they work in small groups of their own with an assist chain. That takes coordination of course and you also have to choose your moments. A small group of tanks are not going to be able to rush into 50 destro. I am currently experimenting with my BW with close range AoE and sometimes can choose my moments to run into a crowd and AoE for a few seconds and then get out of there. I think a small group of tanks with a good strat could probably do much to turn the tide of battle.

If you dont have a small group of tanks, healers and/or spots to fight without getting AoEd/DDd massively, I would agree that it is going to be difficult unless you are needed to tank the keep lords or something.

I don't have a high level tank in this game but I'm seeing a lot of overlap in strategy similar to DAoC (minus DAoC 'extremely' unfair tactics).

Perhaps, Jikkle, Lan, FJ or Sam have some advice?

Zeb
 
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The best keep take i saw was melee dps and warrior priest only.

They rolled up keeps and slammed thru doors.

On a side note. If you had one or two groups of melee dps and a healer or two a flanking manuver taking out the healing in the back rocks. Secondly, blocking off supply lines from Warcamps is a tremendous idea.

I usually put, engineers, white lions and a wizard or two at the back door during keep takes. Good WB's use everyone and make everyone feel useful.
 
I am definitely NOT bashing the leaders of the ORvR from last night, but it really congealed 'me not liking ORvR as a melee class'. Just wanted to vent frustration and see if others have the same problem.

Back in my WoW days, I only enjoyed Open World PvP as a caster/long range class, but loved battlegrounds as a warrior or paladin. Seems as though I am leaning towards those same patterns in WAR.

Oh, and glad to hear I am not the only one who has the same problem :) I feel better.
 
I believe this will change as the guild and the server as a whole levels and catches up with you guys.
 
A good leader definitely makes a difference in enjoyment, even if the RvR isn't successful. I joined a warband last week where the leader was cursing at people who joined because they weren't playing perfectly and the fight wasn't going well.

The next day, another leader was politely directing people to where they would be the most useful, planning the attack out and giving members specific tasks. Made a huge difference for everyone.

I tend to RvR as a break from questing, so I don't go into it for the loot, but just as a diversion. That being said, I'm really looking forward to being able to RvR with guild members so we can get used to fighting as a team.
 
ORvR does need some work but the game is still fairly young and I do believe Mythic is working on improving the experience.

Also like Icthus said a zerg vs zerg battle is actually fairly complex which is why I always loved a good zerg on zerg battle even though I'm in the minority on that one.

One thing that is a must as a tank and I can't stress this enough is assist especially if you're playing an IB which won't put out a ton of quick DPS. With that said the focus of your target should be high DPS classes like the Sorc or Witch Elves since they go down fairly easy if you get some people assisting on them plus their high DPS causes more trouble than healers do. Than next on your list will be the healers and finally the tanks.

Also know when to run away after you charge. If it doesn't look like you're getting a very good push than get out of there to get healed up and hopefully you can get some tanks to overextend chasing you which will put pressure on their healers to keep up and spread them out which opens lanes for you to go straight to the squishies :p
 
I find scenerios a little harder to deal with because the scenerio groups tend to form lines, making it hard to perform surgical strikes on the backfield support. Where as in ORvR I can find open holes to go in, do some damage that will cause confusion in the ranks and then get out.

Unlike WoW, it seems in War, if you can't get yourself a 100% gaurantee of kill, your best bet is to do a bit of damage to cause healers to refocus attention and waste AP and then get out quickly without causing your healers the same stress. It seems more important to be strategic in War then it is in WoW.
 
I see where you are coming from in ORvR. A tactic that Jetanroth and I used in Beta was make sure you have a tank with you and shield on you. I also find that 75% of the time as an Engineer, I do not get heals. I see the same trend for White Lions. With a couple of good healer supporting that combo you are a wrecking ball. Especially if your on vent calling out targets. Focus fire anyone?

One thing I have also noticed in ORvR zergs their has been very little strategy on Order side. For instance, Avelorn. When Destro is holding the bridge, take a long swim or ride around it while our forces are holding the front. Smash into the healers/clothies in the back and you can easily decimate their forces.

Unfortunately we have had very few organized events yet. ORvR w/o guildies is not as fun as with guildies. Example is Schmee, Icthus, Deamiter, Mirakle, and our other healers are on the ball.

I know Sam has had some of the same problems though with his Ironbreaker that you are having with your White Lion, hence he breaks out his Shadow Warrior. My advice would be to make a RDPS alt. I know my next one will be a tank (KoTBS). Just for the reason of switching your playstyle. Like you I alternated between my Paladin and Mage depending on how I felt.

Either way ORvR needs a definative boost in XP. I also hate the randomness of the loot (some of teh stats are not very wel thought out or don't make sense). Participation needs to be reevaluated. I was w/ Kut on those runs and it was funny to see him clucking around, gaining top places.

Mythic seems to care about their player base and I see changes in the future.

Also....NERF BRIGHT WIZARDS AND SORCERERS! Sorry had to do it :)
 
RDPS = Rear DPS?

KoTBS = ?

What's with all the acronyms? :p

Bright Wizards and Sorcerers don't need a nerf... you need higher resists!! :D
 
Ranged Damage Per Second
Knight of the Burning Sun- Empire tank

You need more points in Intelligence. :p
 
I do my best not to do ORvR without a good group of guildies. The chaos that ensues with to many unknown factors does not make for a fun time.

btw, they can't nerf BWs. I have one :)
 
coldturkey49 said:
Take a keep for Exp? Righhhtttt.
The experience for taking a keep is almost non-existent.
Click to expand...

Small amount of love in today's patch about this. more ORvR stuff is getting buffed to provide more XP.

And I agree 100% with what GP said. I use the same tactic in most scenarios. I bust straight through the ranks and go straight for the healers/ranged dps in the back. It really changes how the enemy reacts. When Sam, Shebaely, Ambri & I were doing tier1 and tier2 scenarios, Sam & I could pretty much push a battle anywhere we wanted it because we pushed through. At that point, the healers are focused on their own survival, leaving the DPS on our side to destroy whoever they want.
 
I LOVE open RvR! I actually kind of like the Choas! You can often get to the weaker targets this way.

I play a WL and tend to skirt to the back and work on killing the healers. I DO hate open RvR when the Destro starts pulling Order people into Champions and Heroes. Then again I don't pay much attention to damage meters and think that there are better roles then straight out DPS and I am not that into PHAT loot either. My purpose in the game...FUN! If I die its ok as long as I take someone with me...hopefully 2 or 3 ;)

Sieging a keep or defending it feels like you are accomplishing something versus just winning a scenerio
 
Since this thread has served its purpose, I am going to take the liberty and hijack it.
Icthus said:
You need more points in Intelligence. :p
Click to expand...
I would also like to know why people call it ORVR instead of plain RVR. RVR will always be "open", wont it?
 
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newp. open rvr is specifically when you fight in the open fields, ie, BO and keep takes... RvR encompasses ORvR, but also includes scenarios.
 
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