What do Women/Men want in a game?

[The Mighty Gerbil]

After the "female characters in video games" thread I have become somewhat curious as to what women want in a game and what they would need to get more playing them. So what do women want, puzzles, clothing options, a sickening amount of pink ? I am also asking what do men look for in a game so I may compare. I may make a game one day (one day sigh) so say what traits you look for in a game.

For my part what I look for in a game is good character development, innovative game play, a nostalgic flare or recently multiplayer modes. For character that means a logical plot that provides an emotional motivation for character actions. With large fictional history based plots I don't like having to learn eons of backstory to grasp the plot I'm all about character. For innovation I usually skew to what creates a more realistic experience. Like interacting with so much stuff in Metal Gear or being able to pan out so far in Supreme Commander get my interest (but I have never played Supreme Commander T_T). While most of the games I own are RPGs I have played my fair share of FPS's, action/adventure games and a tiny bit of RTS's. I cannot stand sports or racing games. Puzzle games, while addictive, I find pointless and I generally avoid. My favorite game of all time is "The Monkey Island" series, but, it has little replay value. Yes as I am a man large explosions and babes in a game do catch my eye, but, it has never compelled me to buy any of them.

 

[Durruck]

My wife doesn't read all of the CGA boards, so I'll answer for her. She wants to play dress-up and doll-house with her toons. She plays with the outfits, she wants the power to change their appearance (hair color, style... skin tones, etc). You'd cringe at the number of toons she got to level 25 in wow, just to delete and re-roll because of a minor appearance issue (before the leveling speed increase)

Sure, the gameplay, backstory, and smooth storylines are important, too. But she wants stuff to do *between* major events.

 

[TheChad1215]

My wife doesn't read all of the CGA boards, so I'll answer for her. She wants to play dress-up and doll-house with her toons. She plays with the outfits, she wants the power to change their appearance (hair color, style... skin tones, etc). You'd cringe at the number of toons she got to level 25 in wow, just to delete and re-roll because of a minor appearance issue (before the leveling speed increase)

Sure, the gameplay, backstory, and smooth storylines are important, too. But she wants stuff to do *between* major events.

Unfortunately, SWG is horrible now, but otherwise, I'd say she should play that! You can talk to an "Image Designer" and change even more about yourself than you could when you first rolled.

The girls I know, first, aren't too into games, and second (and probably therefore) want something that doesn't take much to figure out. My ex-girlfriend LOVED my DS--she always played New Super Mario and (haha) Elite Beat Agents and <i>tried</i> Guild Wars, but only got as far as making a character. My present girlfriend likes Guitar Hero and cartoony driving games like Mario Kart.

As for me, the more complicated, the better, BUT! I also don't have much time, so I tend to only play one game at a time and put all my efforts there. Right now (and actually for the past couple years), it's been Guild Wars.

-Chadley

 

[vibrokatana]

They turned SWG from a chance based target and attack to some form of laggy MMOFPS where anyone can be a jedi...*shudder*

 

[moxie]

The games I've loved:

City of Heroes
Guild Wars
World of Warcraft
Anything Mario
Anything Sonic
Animal Crossing
Viva Pinata
Harvest Moon

So for me personally, it's things that are basically non-graphic in violence and that offer more than just fighting. MMOs offer socialization and multitudes of ways to customize your character, both looks-wise AND power-wise. Being able to set yourself apart from others is what makes those games addicting, but it's not just playing dress-up... it's being able to customize your powers to fit your playstyle too. Sim or sandbox-type games (although I hate The Sims) are great fun because again, I get to customize things. Mario and Sonic are classics that anybody can relate to. Puzzle games are okay, but they're not the first thing I look for.

 

[Elader Arkon]

I have specific tastes as far as the different genres go.

For RPGs, I'm looking for depth in story, character customization, and the world itself. I wanna get lost in the world and completely lose track of time when I play one.

For FPS, I look for good controls, different weapon choices/combos, balance (exception: Halo -though I would contend Halo3 was well balanced), and Multiplayer capabilities. A good storyline -or at least interesting- is merely an added bonus.

RTS (Starcraft, C&C, etc.) Balance reigns supreme. If there is one overpowered faction that pwns all, then the game is a failure (lookin' at you Yuri's Revenge). A distant second is what separates a good RTS from a great one is differences in the various factions that allow for different play styles (there's a reason Starcraft has been so popular for so long...). A good story is also merely an added bonus for me as I consider the campaign to be nothing more than getting to know the various units well before I go into multiplayer/skirmish mode for the rest of my time playing it.

For the good ol' Action/Adventure: I want Good Camera, Controls, and Characters.
Once those three have been worked out everything else falls into place.

 

[Amicus Dei of [FoG]]

Personally, I look for Link and Zelda and automatically enjoy the game.

 

[ishylynn]

To be honest Gerbil, I have an intense dislike of two the "things women want" that you listed. I hate pink and puzzles irritate me. I would say that overall women go for more social-oriented games, and there are probably a lot more women playing MMOs than the stats would infer, but a lot of women don't announce the fact because they end up getting harassed (not by this group, but in general).

My list of favorites is very similar to moxie's. I've played every major MMO, but old school SWG is by far my favorite. I like science fiction genres a lot. City of Heroes is fun and campy, but gets repetitive. I played WoW for quite some time, in different classes and characters. Never been able to keep a flame burning for Guild Wars, despite all my friends in ToJ. I don't necessarily go for "female-oriented" classes, but like warriors/tanks and heavy combat classes. I do like customization, but I know guys who are much more particular about it than I ever was.

Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing are great. I was also a longtime Starcraft player, and in college was the only girl in the Starcraft club (but there were only 5 of us all together). Strategy games like Civ have always been high on my list. Right now, I'm loving Rock Band, and have been a longtime Karaoke Revolution fan.

 

[Amicus Dei of [FoG]]

Sorry to notice a totally irrelevant bit of irony, and I don't mean to be sarcastic or derogatory (etc.), but I noticed that you said "I hate pink" and there's a little pink in your avatar :3
Just an observation; no harm meant.

I do agree that pink is an overly stereotypical association with women, though.

 

[ishylynn]

I didn't make my avatar, and didn't feel like I really had the right to change it.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

To be honest Gerbil, I have an intense dislike of two the "things women want" that you listed. I hate pink and puzzles irritate me.

That's cool I was being stereotypical and silly in my listings anyway (my Mother seeming likes puzzle games though). Stereotypes usually have basis in fact but should not apply to everyone. I think with pink you have not just the women who like it, but, you have men not wanting to be associated with the color for it's feminine ties. Therefore it becomes even more associated with women due to it's lack of male supporters.

Looking at the posts are cute or cartoony games seemingly a factor to women? Perhaps it's the ease of casual play that some of those games offer? For my part I go more for a realistic or perhaps an art stylized look in a game. I dislike cartoon like graphics in an in-depth setting like WoW.

I do like customization, but I know guys who are much more particular about it than I ever was.

Yes I am one of those guys who is pretty finicky about customization being how I relate my characters to me and being arty as well .

 

[ishylynn]

I like graphics to fit the genre. For example, one of the reasons I didn't like the original Guild Wars was the cartoonish style. I like MMOs to have realism to them, because I like feeling that I am immersed in the world. I would say that I'm probably not as art picky as a lot of people, but I'm not really artistic in that way, and it's easier for me to suspend disbelief.

Like I said, I think many women are attracted to the social component of games, in whatever form it can take. With MMOs, you actually get to play with people often. With platforms such as Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing, there is an AI social component. Karaoke Rev. and Rock Band allow you to play with family and friends. The Sims and Second Life attract perhaps as many or more women than men. One of the other reasons I think I don't like GW is that most of it is instanced, and I really like being immersed in a world where real people are walking around.

I'm definitely not a casual gamer, though. I've been a pretty dedicated gamer for at least 10 years. And stereotypes can easily be broken. My most girliest, pink-loving friend also terrifies guys when playing Halo. She's vicious.

There's a whole other reason why you might not be able to get women you know into playing games - in the church, it's probably marginally acceptable for guys to play games, but it's not acceptable at all for women to play them. I should know, having been a gamer for so long. Even among non-Christians, being a female gamer is not always acceptable, but Christian women can be very harsh about it. It's not "Proverbs 31". Some women have this idea that men need to "get out their aggression", but why would a woman ever need to do that, and that's the only reason they see for gaming.

 

[Tek7]

There's a whole other reason why you might not be able to get women you know into playing games - in the church, it's probably marginally acceptable for guys to play games, but it's not acceptable at all for women to play them.

Thinking back on my youth group days, I don't recall many, if any, of the girls joining in on the Mario Kart 64 or Starfox 64 matches. The ladies would play air hockey, but not videogames. It may be that the girls in my youth group just weren't interested in video games, but it's also possible that they were aware of a "video games are un-ladylike" stigma that I didn't notice.

I think it's awesome when girls play games, if only to keep the "guy's locker room" vibe in check. Maybe if more women are more vocal about gaming, game companies will finally listen and create more characters like Terra or Celes and fewer like Lara Croft or Nariko (from Heavenly Sword). Maybe Namco would give guys an alternative to blushing and apologizing for caricatures like Ivy and Taki when trying to convince their girlfriend, wife, or friend to give Soul Calibur II a try. Maybe Tecmo, who set gaming back 10 years with Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball, will go bankrupt.

Let's face it: The gaming industry, as a whole, is thick as a brick. They don't understand that the average gamer is twenty-something years old. They don't understand that a decent percentage of gamers are female. They don't understand that women's wants are as varied as the women themselves. Not every man wants to play God of War. Why would developers think that every girl will want to play Bratz?

It will be interesting to see if developers have the guts to develop games with the intention of appealing to both genders.

 

[Tek7]

I am also asking what do men look for in a game so I may compare. I may make a game one day (one day sigh) so say what traits you look for in a game.

What do I look for in games? Well, it's different than it used to be. It's been almost 9 years since I got involved with the Christian gaming community, 13 years since I installed Doom II for the first time, and 22 years since I first picked up a NES gamepad to play Super Mario Bros.

I'm 27 going on 30, married, and I have no intention of giving up computer or video games any time soon. I gave up MMOs last year when I retired from World of Warcraft. I never leveled a character past 48 and I have no intention of picking up a MMO again, no matter how shiny (and I admit that it crossed my mind to try out Tabula Rasa). I can't justify the $15 USD per month and I can't afford the time to run the level treadmill any more. There's a wealth of great games coming out right now and I can't see tying myself down to four nights of "Kill X number of Y creature for Z pieces of gold" a week when I could be playing Team Fortress 2, Super Mario Galaxy, Hotel Dusk, or Dragon Quest VIII instead.

What do I look for in a game? In short, I look for games that are fun. Since I don't have as much free time as I used to, I also like a short learning curve. Beyond that, it depends on the genre of game.

In RPGs, I look for characters that are engaging, endearing, and complex. I want to play as and alongside characters that could exist in real life, even if the game is set in a fantasy or sci-fi world. I want a story that is innovative, well-paced, humorous in places, tragic in places, and intelligent. The "Destined hero who saves the world with his sword and woos the princess after saving her from a dragon" meme is played out. I want to play as either a silent protagonist (e.g. Chrono Trigger) or as a character who is neither an anti-hero (e.g. Cloud) or a messiah figure. I want to play as a character with baggage, but I don't want that baggage to stomp the life out of my character (e.g. Squall). I want settings and locations that pull the player into the game; immersion is key. (As much as I rib on Final Fantasy VII's characters, the game's locations were excellent.)

In FPS games, I look for solid controls, balance, and low respawn times (no, I'm not kidding; I want to spend more than half the game spectating other players *coughCounter-Strikecough*). I want something more than aiming and firing a machine gun. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a M4A1, so I need other ways to excel. Give me a healgun, a flamethrower, or a rocket launcher and I'm good to go. I prefer team-based games, but I still dig solid deathmatch games. As with all games, I want a low learning curve. I want to be able to join a server after playing through the single-player campaign and have a shot at scoring a few frags before the round ends.

In short, Team Fortress 2 and Unreal Tournament 3, together, satisfy all my FPS needs.

For puzzle games, I want a simple ruleset, a multiplayer option, shiny graphics, great sound effects, and tight controls. I want a game that is easy to learn but hard to master. I'd prefer to have it on a portable platform (i.e. Nintendo DS), but I'll also play on consoles or computers. For Nintendo DS puzzle games, I want local wireless multiplayer and online Wi-Fi play. I want to have the choice to play casually or competitively.

How's that for an answer?

 

[MaidMirawyn]

After the "female characters in video games" thread I have become somewhat curious as to what women want in a game and what they would need to get more playing them. So what do women want, puzzles, clothing options, a sickening amount of pink ?

The pinkification of technology and gaming irritates me to no end. Many, many, many companies slap pink on their products and say, "Look! We care about the female market segment!"

If they cared about the female market segment, they would go to the trouble of actually researching what women want. Guess what? Many women don't WANT pink. My DS Lite? It's black, though I could have gotten pink far more easily. My PEBL phone? We went to the trouble to get a phone that hadn't been released in to the US market so I could get this absolutely gorgeous dark shimmery red. (As a side bonus, I can play games in Korean or English. I can't read Korean, but that's beside the point...)

But do companies (gaming and otherwise) bother to research what actual features women want? Rarely. Make it pink, and move on.

What do women want? Well, on average, women are interested in a social component to their gaming. Many women want more options to customize their characters, whether it's faces, clothing and armor, body types, whatever. But we want a game that's worth all the effort of making a customized character. (And I agree with Ishy: some guys can be even more into the customization aspect. Dredd's younger brother Prince Cor changes armor and dye colors more often than anyone I know.)

And to blow the "women don't like violence" stereotype out of the water...I love Diablo II. AND Diablo for the PS2. But I don't like FPS and I'm uninterested in pretty much any military-type game; I loved this other game that I played with a friend that was very much hack-slash. (It might have been one of the Dynasty Warriors games.) I hate melee in Guild Wars and love being a caster, except that I hate playing a healer and love being a trap or touch ranger.

And that Halo-playing woman Ishy mentioned? She adores pink and is a Hello Kitty fanatic. Same woman.

I do love puzzle games; I also love mathematical proofs, especially geometry and calculus, so go figure.

But you know what we really want? A game where we can be female without eliciting come-ons and lewd suggestions. (And last time I publicly announced I was female on Guild Wars, lewd suggestions are exactly what I got. Ask STC or Raven, or anyone else who was in HoH with me at the time.) And I will NOT join PUGs without a buffer-friend along, because I've had too many bad experiences with them. (Sadly, my husband is a poor buffer, because he never notices anything in chat...)

 

[MaidMirawyn]

Maybe if more women are more vocal about gaming, game companies will finally listen and create more characters like Terra or Celes and fewer like Lara Croft or Nariko (from Heavenly Sword). Maybe Namco would give guys an alternative to blushing and apologizing for caricatures like Ivy and Taki when trying to convince their girlfriend, wife, or friend to give Soul Calibur II a try. Maybe Tecmo, who set gaming back 10 years with Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball, will go bankrupt.

Hearing that from a guy made me very, very happy, Tek. You even said it without prompting.

 

[Tek7]

And that Halo-playing woman Ishy mentioned? She adores pink and is a Hello Kitty fanatic. Same woman.

This is a web comic waiting to happen.

I do love puzzle games; I also love mathematical proofs, especially geometry and calculus, so go figure.

There's probably a DS game for that.

Oh, wow, there is!

But you know what we really want? A game where we can be female without eliciting come-ons and lewd suggestions.

That would be fantastic. If you ever find a game where females don't have to hide their gender for fear of lewd in-game whispers, let me know. I love TF2 and UT3, but there don't seem to be many female players on our servers and it can get tiring playing with 99% male players after a while.

I've tried to create an environment here and in Tribe of Judah where female gamers feel welcome and comfortable, but I think Ishy's comment on Christian women viewing gaming as immature may explain why we see such a low percentage of active female members.

Then again, I no longer play Guild Wars or World of Warcraft, so I don't see firsthand how many female players are active in ToJ's GW and WoW guilds.

Hearing that from a guy made me very, very happy, Tek. You even said it without prompting.

/bow

I'm mostly annoyed by the lack of strong female characters in video games because I've watched anime and seen a limited number of movies (e.g. The Incredibles) with strong female characters. Now that I've seen what's possible, it gets on my last nerve to see American television and film passing off the dreadlocked amazon clad scantily in leopard print tatters or the sexy Asian assassin looking for love as a complex female character. If writers have enough time to go on strike, they can stop being lazy and start writing strong female characters.

What's sad is that the strong female characters that immediately come to mind are either animated or rendered:

• Helen Parr from The Incredibles
• The female cast of My HiME (especially Mai and Natsuki)
• The female cast of Read or Die TV (especially Nenene and Michelle)

I need to cut this post short because I need to head to bed, but I just wanted to get out some of my frustration about the lack of complex female characters in Western media.

 

[MaidMirawyn]

Tek, you and Dredd give me hope. No other guys I know go this far without prompting except my own husband.


I think the blame for this has to be shared with the general public. Men keep accepting these characterizations without speaking out; women keep buying into it and participating in the sexualization and demeaning of women. Nothing is going to change until the general public stands up and demands something better. When enough people are clamoring for a better treatment of the sexes, we will see change.

Like the woman in this Strange Horizons article, I finally decided that I wasn't going to hide that I am (gasp) female. If someone asks, I tell them. Women game; get over it. Women can be just as smart as men; get over it. It does open me up to some harassment, but I can always block anyone who gets too troublesome.

And Tek: I really appreciate the female-friendly environment here. I've only once had any issues with a guy in this community showing disdain or anything towards women, and he's not even in our group anymore, so it's a moot point.

 

[Tek7]

Tek, you and Dredd give me hope. No other guys I know go this far without prompting except my own husband.

I've been blessed with several female friends throughout my life who've helped give me a glimpse into the female perspective. During adolescence, I quickly learned that women are not illogical; women operate according to a different logic than men. Neither logic is fundamentally better or worse, but either logic tends towards strengths and weaknesses. In short, men and women view the world through different lenses.

It seems as though the gaming industry, which is managed by adults, has failed to learn lessons that I learned during my adolescence.

I think the blame for this has to be shared with the general public. Men keep accepting these characterizations without speaking out; women keep buying into it and participating in the sexualization and demeaning of women.

On the flip side, I don't think most women are looking to play as an androgynous or desexualized character.

Perhaps that's why women (in my experience) tend not to identify with the de-sexualized Samus Aran. Women may not want to play as a Barbie figure, but that doesn't mean that women are opposed to playing as a character with curves. There is something other than desexualized or hypersexualized. The gaming industry tends to offer a false dichotomy when, in reality, there are other options.

Using a character cited in my last post as an example: Helen Parr a.k.a. Elastigirl of The Incredibles maintains her femininity while confirming her emotional and physical strength. She flirts with and shows affection toward her husband, makes every effort to be a good mother, and maintains her unique identity. Her identity is not based solely on her roles as wife or mother. She is not an idealized character; she is not patterned after the "sacred feminine" so often seen in Western media. She has flaws, but she is clearly a protagonist and a genuinely good character.

Nothing is going to change until the general public stands up and demands something better. When enough people are clamoring for a better treatment of the sexes, we will see change.

I think the gaming industry is on the brink of producing RPGs aimed at more mature (literal use of the word) audiences. I haven't played Mass Effect, but the advertisement where the crew is prompted to make a difficult decision (as opposed to the classic choice, "Do we wield the broadsword of light to vanquish evil or do we wield the short sword of light to vanquish evil") did pique my interest. Unfortunately, totally inaccurate information and misrepresentations of the game spread by popular news media have hurt Mass Effect's and, by proxy, the gaming industry's image among the uninformed masses.

The blatant stupidity of Fox News and Cooper Lawrence aside, I think gamers in their late teens and beyond are ready for a deeper RPG. It's time for the gaming industry to take a chance and make truly mature games, not just games with the sensibilities of a 13-year old adolescent male watching cars explode and half-naked women strut around on late-night network television. (Yes, I'm thinking of Grand Theft Auto.)

We'll get smarter, deeper, and more complex games eventually, but I'm getting tired of waiting. (Hotel Dusk, an excellent example of exactly what I'm looking for, can only tide me over for so long.) I'd go so far as to guess that most other gamers who were raised on Mario and Sonic and are staring down the big 3-0 feel the same way.

And Tek: I really appreciate the female-friendly environment here. I've only once had any issues with a guy in this community showing disdain or anything towards women, and he's not even in our group anymore, so it's a moot point.

Thank you. It does my heart good to hear that.

And I have to say that I'm impressed with how well the majority of our male forum members treat the female members. It's rare that I need to smack any guys on the back of the head for out-of-line comments.

 

[moxie]

Looking at the posts are cute or cartoony games seemingly a factor to women? Perhaps it's the ease of casual play that some of those games offer?)

Cute/cartoony? Maybe, but not quite. I prefer to think about it as being highly stylized or fantasy-like. Realism doesn't appeal to me just because I live in the real world everyday and use games as an escape, so I like games that look, well, DIFFERENT.

As far as casual play goes, that's all relative. What is hardcore to some might be casual to another. My husband and I have a large group of real-life friends who all play WoW. I'm the only female in the group, and I scare them with the amount of theorycraft, stat knowledge, gear upgrades, and lore that I know. I'm far from truly hardcore... I still haven't seen karazhan and will probably never see the 25-man raids. But to some, I'm a hardcore WoW fanatic that should be working at Blizzard.

Casual play is too ambiguous a term. I like a game that I can play when it fits in my schedule, and that I can take a break from for a week without worrying about "getting behind". It has to be easy enough to play without knowing the in-depth things starting out, but ALSO have enough depth, customization, and intricacies to keep me interested and motivated over the long haul. If I'm going to spend a great deal of time playing a game, I want to have ultimate control over my character.

Yeeks, reading back over that, I may need psychiatric help. LOL