Wellcome to the USSA

[XionTawa]

One thing we have to remember is that even the Bible tells us that history repeats itself and every great nation eventually goes socialist/communist, then it proceeds to an empire (which some think we are already showing signs of being), and then falls... America cannot and will not last forever...and the end-times brings power back to the middle east... And I don't think the USA will be willing to hand over world power to another nation without a fight...

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

and the end-times brings power back to the middle east... And I don't think the USA will be willing to hand over world power to another nation without a fight...

A fight may not be necessary China may well sell our IOUs to the Arabs. At which point the Arabs will demand their money, we won't be able to pay, so our credit will goes bad and then no nation will lend us money to buy anything. Instant collapse without a shot fired.

 

[Logos]

One thing we have to remember is that even the Bible tells us that history repeats itself and every great nation eventually goes socialist/communist, then it proceeds to an empire (which some think we are already showing signs of being), and then falls... America cannot and will not last forever...and the end-times brings power back to the middle east... And I don't think the USA will be willing to hand over world power to another nation without a fight...

Ok I am going to just throw a monkey wrench into the discussion here...what if you believe in a different "end-times" scenerio

Just to note: I am not saying where I stand on this...I am simply bringing up a point that X made. Although, if you read Daniel and Revelation you can not help but come to some conclusions on the matter. Also John MacArthur did an amazing series a year or so ago that really was good.

 

[Bowser]

A fight may not be necessary China may well sell our IOUs to the Arabs. At which point the Arabs will demand their money, we won't be able to pay, so our credit will goes bad and then no nation will lend us money to buy anything. Instant collapse without a shot fired.

Why would China give the debt to the Arabs? Also, which Arabic country would willingly accept?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Why would China give the debt to the Arabs? Also, which Arabic country would willingly accept?

China has been working to separate itself from the US-China economic interdependence. At which point they could dump the treasury bonds next time we do something they don't like (as they have already threatened to do before). As far as the Arabs I probably should have said they would just not buy them up at all if they wanted to bankrupt us but they have been buying them so far as a percentage of the bonds already belong to "oil producing countries". I assume they buy them becuase we buy their oil and if our economy collapses there goes their customer. However if they wanted to get something over us to ruin us at a moments notice (the minute we can no longer give them money) rather than the aforementioned fight buying the bonds seems a more prudent course. You are probably right though if China dumped all their bonds Arab Oil countries wouldn't/couldn't buy them all and prolong our economy. The interpretations of prophecy I've heard don't seem to include the US at all much less in the middle east and economic collapse could explain that.

Both China and the Arab oil countries are already working to become independent of the Dollar switching to the Euro to do their business.

 

[Bowser]

Both China and the Arab oil countries are already working to become independent of the Dollar switching to the Euro to do their business.

This is true, but I think those gulf countries realize that a (gosh, I can't think of the word, so I'll just use "united") currency will not work, just as many economists believe the Euro will be failing soon. I can't remember the reasons, so please forgive me, but the Euro just isn't as robust as the dollar is. Granted, the Euro and other currencies are still worth more (if I remember correctly), but the dollar is supposedly more stable in the long term. Last I read, China is still looking to be independent, but those Arab states, I think, realize that a regional currency would not work for them. For one, there's not a single Arab gulf state that really gets along with another. The Saudis look down on the Bahrainis, UAE is a tourist center that relies on Europe, Asia, and the States for its income. There are even arguments among the states if you expand the geopolitical boundaries, such as with Syria and Lebanon, Iraq and Kuwait, etc. So I don't think it would work, or work to their benefit, if they rely on their own currency.

Also, keep in mind, it's wise for other countries to not rely on the dollar, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that they're trying to become more economically independent.

I can't think of a single Arab country that would even want and could afford the U.S. debt except for maybe Saudi Arabia, and if that were the case that would actually work in both states' favor.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Last I read, China is still looking to be independent, but those Arab states, I think, realize that a regional currency would not work for them.

What about the "Gulfo"? Don't think it will happen? (note web page is a random search find to show people what it is I don't vouch for it).

Also, keep in mind, it's wise for other countries to not rely on the dollar, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that they're trying to become more economically independent.

Yeah it's great for them but for us deeply in debt and unfortunately depending on them bailing us out not so much . Of course on a moral level, and for our future, we should work for economic self sufficiency and not be selling more bonds we can't pay.

I can't think of a single Arab country that would even want and could afford the U.S. debt except for maybe Saudi Arabia, and if that were the case that would actually work in both states' favor.

Yeah you are right I think I spoke to soon on my original post. Now I have seen some stuff that suggests the Arab/oil states buy US bonds when others haven't but I don't see them buying the ones China's has. Really my only point was I don't think we will end up fighting in the middle east at the end we won't be around or at least not as the USA we know.

 

[Hescominsoon]

The difference is that the government makes sure everything gets shared fairly! Which would you rather have, a dictatorship run by a smart, friendly, wonderful chap or a democracy run by a pack of fools, comrade?

you actually believe the gov't does it equally? maybe you should look at chine, the former ussr, cuba..etc etc etc. I would rather have our republic.. centralized gov't only threatens it's citizens..it most assuredly doesn't help them

 

[Patriot]

you actually believe the gov't does it equally? maybe you should look at chine, the former ussr, cuba..etc etc etc. I would rather have our republic.. centralized gov't only threatens it's citizens..it most assuredly doesn't help them

Not to defend the great evils that such governments have perpetrated but:

• Governments only rise and fall by the will of God
• Even evil governments provide some basic protection (prosecution of generic low-level evil-doers) because if they let crime run rampant they cannot maintain control.
• As Christians we are called to submit to the authorities placed over us.

(Romans 13:1-7 & 1 Peter 2:13-17)

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

As Christians we are called to submit to the authorities placed over us.

Ooooh that could open a whole slew of discussion about revolutionary wars, their justification or lack thereof but we still have recourse within our system. I mean we can still vote and the big health care thing doesn't take effect until 2015? (was it 2015?) so it can be repealed. A last ditch effort can pay off if we pray and work hard to spread the truth right?

 

[Patriot]

Ooooh that could open a whole slew of discussion about revolutionary wars, their justification or lack thereof but we still have recourse within our system. I mean we can still vote and the big health care thing doesn't take effect until 2015? (was it 2015?) so it can be repealed. A last ditch effort can pay off if we pray and work hard to spread the truth right?

Sure, we can vote and work within the law to change the system (or keep it).

 

[Odale]

The difference is that the government makes sure everything gets shared fairly! Which would you rather have, a dictatorship run by a smart, friendly, wonderful chap or a democracy run by a pack of fools, comrade?

you actually believe the gov't does it equally? maybe you should look at chine, the former ussr, cuba..etc etc etc. I would rather have our republic.. centralized gov't only threatens it's citizens..it most assuredly doesn't help them

The only difference between those countries and ours is that they are/were actual, real communist states.

No matter how you want to look at it, we are not a communist state and in reality we will not be a communist state for quite some time, if ever.

One of the key differences is that we can vote for who we want to lead us that none of the citizens in those states could do that.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Stc95]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Both are fruit

 

[Lazarus]

you actually believe the gov't does it equally? maybe you should look at chine, the former ussr, cuba..etc etc etc. I would rather have our republic.. centralized gov't only threatens it's citizens..it most assuredly doesn't help them

Mm... good point. I hereby renounce all of my previous and foolish political views.

Btw, how many Iraqi civilians have we slaughtered so far?

 

[Patriot]

Btw, how many Iraqi civilians have we slaughtered so far?

How many have we saved?

 

[OrryW]

The only difference between those countries and ours is that they are/were actual, real communist states.

All of his examples are socialist states actually, there is a difference.

 

[Hescominsoon]

How many have we saved?

that's irrelevant due to the fact we've killed many more than is reported...not to mention the fact this action is not constitutional..i don't recall the us congress ever making a declaration of war..that's the only legal way the executive branch can then prosecute a war.

 

[Elader Arkon]

that's irrelevant due to the fact we've killed many more than is reported...not to mention the fact this action is not constitutional..i don't recall the us congress ever making a declaration of war..that's the only legal way the executive branch can then prosecute a war.

Original Authorization for Use of the United States Armed Forces. This was the declaration of war for the Persian Gulf in 1991. The Persian Gulf war ended in a cease fire which is NOT the same thing as an actual end to the war. This is the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 which was passed by Congress to end the cease fire and once again authorize the use of armed forces in Iraq.

 

[Stc95]

that's irrelevant due to the fact we've killed many more than is reported...

That can be said for his argument as well, and your statement is true for every violent conflict in human history.

not to mention the fact this action is not constitutional..i don't recall the us congress ever making a declaration of war..that's the only legal way the executive branch can then prosecute a war.

The War Powers Act of 1973 says otherwise. The United States hasn't declared war on a country since WWII, yet US troops have gone into Vietnam, Korea, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But just because we don't have a declaration of war, doesn't mean the use of force is illegal. Under the War Powers Resolution the President may send troops and notify Congress within 48 hours. He then has 60 days to get his job done and 30 days to withdraw unless Congress grants more time. And, in the case of Iraq, Congress has granted more time in the Iraq Resolution passed in Oct. 2002.

EDIT: Gah.. Elader beat me..

 

[Odale]

All of his examples are socialist states actually, there is a difference.

Care to define that difference?

When people complain that we are turning into a socialist state I automatically equate the socialist we are allegedly becoming to a communist state.

I understand that certain aspects of our nation are very socialized (Medicare, Medicaid, SSI etc.), I don't think that makes us commies though...