USA National Election: The night before

[C4K3]

God is in control. He puts those in power according to his will, and He reigns in the affairs of men. He rewards the righteous, and moreover, all things work together to the good of those who love Him.

I am not incredibly well versed with this elected, I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Trump: Pro:
Pro-Israel Candidate
Pro-Life Party
Business Experience
Experience as President
Strong Military Candidate
Other personal favor

Trump: Con:
Felonies, lots of felonies
Turned away many around him, including Pence
Chauvinist instances in past

Harris: Pro
Political Experience
Healthcare Party
Union Party

Harris: Con
Higher Taxes Party
Pro-Choice Party


I guess by reading it's not too difficult to determine I'm voting for, but, anyway, it is my expectation and relief of mind that whoever is elected, checks and balances will significantly crop the sides of the picture of insanity that one may bring to such a position at such a time. Peace! ~C4K3

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

God is in control. He puts those in power according to his will, and He reigns in the affairs of men. He rewards the righteous, and moreover, all things work together to the good of those who love Him.

I am not incredibly well versed with this elected, I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Trump: Pro:
Pro-Israel Candidate
Pro-Life Party
Business Experience
Experience as President
Strong Military Candidate
Other personal favor

Trump: Con:
Felonies, lots of felonies
Turned away many around him, including Pence
Chauvinist instances in past

Harris: Pro
Political Experience
Healthcare Party
Union Party

Harris: Con
Higher Taxes Party
Pro-Choice Party


I guess by reading it's not too difficult to determine I'm voting for, but, anyway, it is my expectation and relief of mind that whoever is elected, checks and balances will significantly crop the sides of the picture of insanity that one may bring to such a position at such a time. Peace! ~C4K3

This election I had neither the time or energy to post about it but props /hugs for not hiding your light under a bush like too many lukewarm Christians do. No one wins a defensive war and unless Christians start being bold in proclaiming the truth in Christ this country, nay the world, has no hope.

I will add very quickly...

1. Don't worry about the Trump court cases they are basically political driven shams (the timing on these things is not coincidental) . I mean the sexual abuse conviction comes from a sex columnist that talked about, both before and after the alleged event, how rape was a turn on and how she wanted money. I put as much stock in it as the clown show that was the Kavanaugh hearings.

2. Harris/Biden are as anti-Israel as current politics allow. They have been calling for a cease fire with Hamas which is what Hamas wanted from the beginning. Biden also withheld weapons Israel needs with Harris on record for approving. She also snubbed meeting Netanyahu to go meet with a frat ( I mean Obama was outright hostile to Netanyahu so it's nothing new). Comparatively they've used Zelensky to stump for them. They want the Hamas supporters in Dearborn, Michigan, the Queers for Palestine, and the college students illegally occupying college buildings to vote for them but those are not demographics any politician should be courting.

3. Harris's political "experience" began with dating the then married Willie Brown (until his Voodoo priestess wife put her foot down) to get cushy jobs where she did nothing but collect money. Then she became an incompetent AG who among other things decided not to do her job and defend the law that Californians passed only recognizing marriage between a man and a woman. Aside from the immorality... flatly she's dumb C4K3. I don't mean that as a pejorative but anytime she goes off teleprompter she's got nothing but catch phrases and rambles about the significance of the passage of time. She is "unburdened" by intellect to use her vernacular. Trump is not a genius, he is a man of average intelligence (with an ego that gets him in trouble), but he can hold a normal conversation and answer questions, she cannot.

Anyway I try to follow this stuff on a regular basis so I could go on and on because there is a a ton of lies and misdirection but because there is so much I've not the time to post on it all. Regardless happy to talk on anything with you C4K3. Again much love for you for posting about it you've more guts that most I know.

 

[Tek7]

This election I had neither the time or energy to post about it but props /hugs for not hiding your light under a bush like too many lukewarm Christians do. No one wins a defensive war and unless Christians start being bold in proclaiming the truth in Christ this country, nay the world, has no hope.

I will add very quickly...

1. Don't worry about the Trump court cases they are basically political driven shams (the timing on these things is not coincidental) . I mean the sexual abuse conviction comes from a sex columnist that talked about, both before and after the alleged event, how rape was a turn on and how she wanted money. I put as much stock in it as the clown show that was the Kavanaugh hearings.

Phrasing is important here and it's worth noting that E. Jean Carroll's exact words in a June 24, 2019 interview with CNN were, "I think most people think of rape as being sexy." (I would typically link the article that includes the quote but the article also features explicit details of sexual assault, so I'm not doing that this time.) Context is key.

Putting aside that a jury found Trump guilty of 34 counts of felony charges related to falsifying business records and that the claim that all five criminal and civil cases against Trump were politically motivated is difficult to believe (and requires a faith in the ability and coordination of myriad parties that I don't think humans are capable of), I would argue that publicly assuming that a woman's claims of sexual abuse were financially motivated, especially after a jury found Trump liable of sexual abuse, is not helpful when we're seeking to proclaim the truth in Christ and bring Him glory. (Though I will concede that joking with MSNBC host Rachel Maddow about using part of the $83 million in damages to go on a shopping spree is bad optics.)

I agree wholeheartedly that Christians should be bold in proclaiming the Gospel, but I can't agree with the position of "Don't worry about the Trump court cases," especially when the federal election case and classified documents case are (or were, since the election is now over) especially relevant to voters deciding if Trump is fit to serve as President.

I admit I wish both political parties had put forth stronger candidates for an election that would have better represented the interests of the American people, but both parties, in my opinion, failed on multiple fronts, including Biden not pledging to serve only one term (which he considered in 2019 and would have allowed a proper Democratic primary leading up to the 2024 general election), Democrats dismissing valid concerns about Biden's cognitive decline, and key Republican figures failing to follow through on strong rhetoric after January 6, 2021.

Returning to the topic of making Christ our first priority, I share this quote from C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, which imagines an older demon writing to a younger demon working to turn a young man away from the Christian faith:

Whichever he adopts, your main task will be the same. Let him begin by treating the Patriotism or the Pacifism as a part of his religion. Then let him, under the influence of partisan spirit, come to regard it as the most important part. Then quietly and gradually nurse him on to the stage at which the religion becomes merely part of the ‘cause’, in which Christianity is valued chiefly because of the excellent arguments it can produce in favour of the British war-effort or of Pacifism. The attitude which you want to guard against is that in which temporal affairs are treated primarily as material for obedience. Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours – and the more ‘religious’ (on those terms) the more securely ours. I could show you a pretty cageful down here.

Source: Reflections: When Faith Becomes A Means

Ultimately, we agree on the identity and preeminence of Christ and we should be investing our time, energy, and talents first and foremost to advancing His Kingdom. Now that the election is over, I'm ready to take my own advice and focus more on Christ and His Church. This election cycle has been exhausting.

 

[MonstroMarthias777]

This election I had neither the time or energy to post about it but props /hugs for not hiding your light under a bush like too many lukewarm Christians do. No one wins a defensive war and unless Christians start being bold in proclaiming the truth in Christ this country, nay the world, has no hope.

I will add very quickly...

1. Don't worry about the Trump court cases they are basically political driven shams (the timing on these things is not coincidental) . I mean the sexual abuse conviction comes from a sex columnist that talked about, both before and after the alleged event, how rape was a turn on and how she wanted money. I put as much stock in it as the clown show that was the Kavanaugh hearings.

2. Harris/Biden are as anti-Israel as current politics allow. They have been calling for a cease fire with Hamas which is what Hamas wanted from the beginning. Biden also withheld weapons Israel needs with Harris on record for approving. She also snubbed meeting Netanyahu to go meet with a frat ( I mean Obama was outright hostile to Netanyahu so it's nothing new). Comparatively they've used Zelensky to stump for them. They want the Hamas supporters in Dearborn, Michigan, the Queers for Palestine, and the college students illegally occupying college buildings to vote for them but those are not demographics any politician should be courting.

3. Harris's political "experience" began with dating the then married Willie Brown (until his Voodoo priestess wife put her foot down) to get cushy jobs where she did nothing but collect money. Then she became an incompetent AG who among other things decided not to do her job and defend the law that Californians passed only recognizing marriage between a man and a woman. Aside from the immorality... flatly she's dumb C4K3. I don't mean that as a pejorative but anytime she goes off teleprompter she's got nothing but catch phrases and rambles about the significance of the passage of time. She is "unburdened" by intellect to use her vernacular. Trump is not a genius, he is a man of average intelligence (with an ego that gets him in trouble), but he can hold a normal conversation and answer questions, she cannot.

Anyway I try to follow this stuff on a regular basis so I could go on and on because there is a a ton of lies and misdirection but because there is so much I've not the time to post on it all. Regardless happy to talk on anything with you C4K3. Again much love for you for posting about it you've more guts that most I know.

I was aware that those "felonies" Trump did were nothing but political garbage and lies by the Main Stream Media and how they tried to make up tons of excuses and stuff to destroy Donald. Also, I could say from a good understanding that Kamala is a real jerk who doesn't care about Christ after being told by two boy students "Christ is King" and "Jesus is Lord" and what did she say? "You're at the wrong rally" or something like "You're looking for the rally down the road/street" like she's saying that God is not welcome in her rallies like she doesn't even care. People straight up laughed and cheered her on and one rallygoer tried to assault one of the boys. I heard about this before and saw a video about it by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. Have you heard of him? Kamala and Biden are arrogant also and didn't even do anything to help us, right?

 

[Tek7]

I was aware that those "felonies" Trump did were nothing but political garbage and lies by the Main Stream Media and how they tried to make up tons of excuses and stuff to destroy Donald. Also, I could say from a good understanding that Kamala is a real jerk who doesn't care about Christ after being told by two boy students "Christ is King" and "Jesus is Lord" and what did she say? "You're at the wrong rally" or something like "You're looking for the rally down the road/street" like she's saying that God is not welcome in her rallies like she doesn't even care. People straight up laughed and cheered her on and one rallygoer tried to assault one of the boys. I heard about this before and saw a video about it by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. Have you heard of him? Kamala and Biden are arrogant also and didn't even do anything to help us, right?

There's a lot to unpack here.

> those "felonies" Trump did were nothing but political garbage and lies by the Main Stream Media and how they tried to make up tons of excuses and stuff to destroy Donald

The case in which Trump was convicted on 34 felony counts was decided by a jury. Trump was accused by the Manhattan District Attorney, Alvin Bragg. If you'd like see a scan of the indictment dated March 31, 2023, you can view it here.

It's worth noting that Bragg's predecessor, "Cyrus Vance Jr issued a subpoena for the Trump Organization in order to acquire Trump's tax returns. Proceedings against Trump by Vance began in August 2019, and would continue until the end of his tenure."

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/did-alvin-...secution-hush-money-guilty-conviction-1906705

Claiming that all civil or criminal cases brought against Trump were "political garbage and lies" demands a level of faith in the intelligence, malice, and coordination of so many individuals, groups, and institutions that I would argue that it's far more plausible that a man convicted by a jury of breaking the law actually broke the law.

Our forums do not have any rules against political discussion and people are free to share their opinions (within reason, of course), but don't be surprised if someone responds with a counterargument.

> Also, I could say from a good understanding that Kamala is a real jerk who doesn't care about Christ after being told by two boy students "Christ is King" and "Jesus is Lord" and what did she say? "You're at the wrong rally" or something like "You're looking for the rally down the road/street" like she's saying that God is not welcome in her rallies like she doesn't even care.

The exact phrase was "Oh you guys are at the wrong rally. I think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street."

There are counter-claims that Harris was responding to a protester shouting, "Lies. Lies. That's a lie." Snopes has an in-depth article on the subject if you're up for a bit of light reading.

 

[Krissa Lox]

Just speaking about society in general, not directed toward anyone in particular nor interested in getting caught up in any lengthy discussion here because I have more pressing responsibilities elsewhere to be able to devote much time to online conversations these days, but I think that aside from some niche demographics like single-issue voters, people involved in national security, and people who are basically shut-ins and disproportionately dependent on virtual information ecosystems due to disabilities or caretaker duties that local churches have grown negligent in reaching out to, I think most Americans are pretty united in wanting to vote for the real "god" of this country - the economy - and then just searching out and cherry-picking whatever logic, news events, historical interpretations, Bible verses, etc, to justify their choice instead of being honest with themselves or others about the idolatry it is.

That doesn't mean I think American Christians don't really care about Christ, but I think we suffer from a lot more cognitive dissonance than non-Christians do from this state of affairs because on the one hand many pray sincerely and fervently for revival in this country, but on the other hand the idol that most needs to be cast down to achieve this is probably the one thing we are not yet emotionally mature enough to willingly put on the sacrificial altar.

To be honest, I was actually pretty surprised at the election results because by any objective, easily researchable measure there was a clear superior option for economic health and prosperity. Not necessary a good option, but a significantly less bad and damaging option than the alternative. While I would like to give people the benefit of the doubt that their votes in the opposite direction were made with a clear-eyed understanding and acceptance that they were purposely choosing a path of hardship and diminishment for the sake of something they perceived to be of higher moral principle to uphold, I'm guessing that that wasn't really the case and more likely people just ended up being victims of their own excessive cherry-picking and filtered out a lot of key information that should have alerted them that they wouldn't really be getting what they thought they were voting for with the candidate they chose.

However, elections determine that people will get what they actually vote for, not what they just think they are voting for. So for people who were really willing to make material sacrifices for perceived spiritual gains, they shouldn't be too unhappy with this result and God will know and be thoughtful of their hearts. But people who voted for personal greed rather than genuine principle and were just paying lip service to spiritual concerns without sincerity, God also knows their hearts too, and they're probably going to have a hard time when they end up with a much different outcome than expected.

But by whatever means we have gotten here, for better or worse the country has made its decision for the direction it wants to take for the next four years, and maybe God might take it as an opportunity to finally cast down that idol that we are so scared to let go of, to give us a new and better future in its place. Or maybe He'll just leave us to deal with the consequences of our own mistakes as an opportunity to learn and grow and mature. Or maybe He's not really much into American politics at all and has other ways He prefers to work in the world instead.

In any case, while choices and actions - whether well-reasoned and informed or not - all have consequences, God is still ultimately the one who is really in control over any institution of man, and Romans 8:28 still remains just as active in effect as it ever has been throughout all the sordid chaos of human history.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

For a person who once asked me why I feel the need to fight you. Why do you feel the need to fight me Tek? I guess we are doing this though, goodbye sleep.

Putting aside that a jury found Trump guilty of 34 counts of felony charges related to falsifying business records and that the claim that all five criminal and civil cases against Trump were politically motivated is difficult to believe (and requires a faith in the ability and coordination of myriad parties that I don't think humans are capable of)...

I never said coordination Tek, I said timing as in after becoming a Republican president, mobs do not need coordination, they just need to see others getting away with it and join in. It happens in news media, politics, assassination attempts, all it takes is mutual hate. Stop using something I never said. Perhaps you simply misunderstood as I had to type it out hastily but you of all people should have known what I was talking about because I specifically talked to you about this on the Discord before. Prior to becoming a Republican President Democrats loved Trump, he hung out with Muhammad Ali, Al Sharpton, supported Hillary Clinton, was on the View, SNL, the Emmys, etc.. After being elected Jimmy Fallon wrote a piece in the New Yorker apologizing for having him on his show, the View excommunicated him, he had become orange Hitler according to leftist media and Democrats. They did the same exact thing to Elon Musk, he was the environmental golden boy, in Iron Man, they loved him... then he spoke up for free speech, and the center leftist became a far right boogeyman. When Democrats repeatedly and regularly call Trump Hitler, when there have been two assassination attempts, the idea that no Democrat would ever use lawfare to attack him is silly. Trump makes it easy by not shutting his mouth but they've been attacking every word, every winsome fart, from him from the day he became a Republican president.

I agree wholeheartedly that Christians should be bold in proclaiming the Gospel, but I can't agree with the position of "Don't worry about the Trump court cases," especially when the federal election case and classified documents case are (or were, since the election is now over) especially relevant to voters deciding if Trump is fit to serve as President.

I didn't want to have to write this all out Tek but now I have too lest I look like a fool -_- . It was a right before game night (note the time on my first post Tek 8:29), I had only seen the post a few minutes before and it was the only chance I had to reply to a post before the election was over. I do not see the sin in essentially saying "trust me", especially to a person I personally know, when facing a deadline. I've explicitly made it a point to follow politics, even though I hate it, for years, I am not talking out of my hat. Shapiro, law degree, has talked about these cases back when they broke. It's why I watch him because he will go into the facts.

The cases fall into two categories absurdities and/or Democrats have done the same thing, or worse, and were not convicted of anything. Law only works if it is applied equally.

Spoiler: Case 1 Sexual Assault

Phrasing is important here and it's worth noting that E. Jean Carroll's exact words in a June 24, 2019 interview with CNN were, "I think most people think of rape as being sexy." (I would typically link the article that includes the quote but the article also features explicit details of sexual assault, so I'm not doing that this time.) Context is key.

I've seen the video before (nothing explicit in that clip) her affect was not believable and she was correcting Cooper when she said it which was weird (also weird how some media feel the need to edit it out. I saw the shopping spree comments as well). I've also seen Trump's disgusting Access Hollywood video. Adulterer, womanizer, and at that time Hilary Clinton supporter, rapist I'm not seeing the evidence. In Carroll's own words she stupidly went into a dressing room with a man she hardly knew to have him model lingerie. She also praised the Apprentice and then claimed to have a panic attack watching it. The jury themselves lowered the charge from rape to sexual assault even though her own writings contradicted that. She's also accused another unrelated man who also denied it. Sex columnist who wrote about not needing men, for Playboy as well, and about women needing to speak out on abuse while not doing it herself. Again timing, this was supposed to have happened late 1995 or early 1996 and she only wrote about it in 2019 . Fear of Trump's power restrains you for two decades and then suddenly you feel the need to write an article about it 3 years into a Trump presidency at the height of his power (right after the Kavanaugh hearings hmmm), then you have a defamation suit for millions but only because Trump said mean things about you and the other denier didn't, and only then do you prosecute (guilty or innocent of the rape the idea that "defamation" is saying things against your accuser is functionally insane). The only evidence for the story is a friend who said she told her about it at that time but never mentioned it since.

For context I also don't believe the man who accused Obama of having gay sex hookups with him. Biden has accusers as well, Tara Reade, etc. (and there are multiple videos of him smelling women/girl's hair). Have power, have money, get accused, doesn't mean innocence or guilt only that Trump is not special in this. If Trump's character and behavior is valid evidence so is hers. If we are supposed to care about Trump's legal cases for voting purposes you are going to have to have an opinion on her.

Tek women are neither better nor worse than men. Their sin simply manifests in a different manner. I do not "believe all women" anymore than I "believe all men". It's hypocritical and misandry to be questioning of Trump's character and not be able to do the same to those accusing him. The "Believe all women" movement was absurd and quite frankly evil. An accusation should require evidence whether it's rape or turning over the 2016 election. Side note it's weird having you essentially defend a woman when you opposed me shaming men that beat women up in sports.

I can still remember a man on trial for sexual harassment (which he paid out for), said he never had sex in the White House under oath, then Monica Lewinsky was like um, then he said it didn't count because it was a different sex act, everybody was like isn't that perjury, a failed impeachment and a couple decades later nobody cared when Hilary ran. Then she hypocritically jumped on the #metoo bandwagon without a word against Bill.

Spoiler: Case 2 Falsifying business documents

In order to get the "hush money" felony convictions for concealing a crime the judge had to tie them to an actual crime which did not exist, campaign finance violation.

As a standalone crime, falsifying business documents is normally a misdemeanor in New York, but prosecutors in Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office elevated it to a felony on grounds that Trump was concealing an illegal campaign contribution.

Trump was investigated for the NDA being an illegal campaign contribution but they declined to even charge him much less convict. NDA's themselves are not illegal, he paid Micheal Cohen out of his own money for Stormy Daniels silence, not illegal. Nor was this the his first time paying for silence so it's hard to tie to his campaign specifically since you could say he would have done it anyway. Had he paid Stormy Daniels out of campaign funds Democrats could then charge it wasn't related to the campaign meaning there is no functional way for him to do what is normally legal. Also Obama simply paid $300,000 in fines for campaign finance violations and no what it was for does not matter. If you can pay a fine for one why not for the other? Hypocritical dual standards are a theme with Democrat allegations. Again to have hidden a crime and make this a felony there first had to be a crime. The judge reportedly gave the jury multiple choice options saying Trump could have done any of these things to get these convictions. IIRC Alvin Bragg became DA on the promise of specifically getting Trump.

Spoiler: Case 3 Civil Fraud Case

About the absurd fraud case against Trump overvaluing his properties. There were no allegations of loss by the banks, no standing, which one is supposed to have for cases like this. Trump was in business for 50 years with his brand known for being gaudy and boasting. Why is this issue coming up now? Because he wasn't a Republican President then, again timing.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Spoiler: Case 4 Georgia Election Interference

About Trumps phone call to the Georgia Governor looking for more votes, under supervision by his lawyers. There were no threats so I don't see a world that equates to election interference. It was brought to court by one Fani Willis who who hired her lover to prosecute, when he had no experience in prosecuting such cases, and paid large amounts of government money to him. I saw her take the stand, can't quite remember it, but it was not flattering to her case. It also uses RICO which is usual to say the least.

Spoiler: Case 5 Classified Documents

About the classified documents case which under normal stances may have had merit except the special counsel found Biden to have classified information and declined to prosecute explicitly because a jury would find him too old (which Biden then objected to so is he saying he is guilty?). Pence did it as well. Apparently the careless handling of classified documents is not an issue unique to Trump. Furthermore as President Trump had unilateral power to declassify anything and there is no formal process for doing so. Basically he can just lie (and we all know he would never do that /eye roll) and say he declassified them while vice presidents cannot. Also under Obama the National Archives appointed someone to go through his files prior to leaving, with Trump they just didn't. Last I looked, which was a long while back, it's unclear how many of the Documents are secret and how many are personal keepsakes the National Archives are being jerks about (Clinton took everything when he left). Finally Trump was reported to have said "can't I just do what Hilary did?" which is a actually a good question considering she was ordered to turn over the hard drive and instead wiped it and had it destroyed in a parking lot.

Spoiler: Case 6 Federal Election Interference

About the Federal election Interference Case. You can lie in an election it's kinda a thing Democrats do regularly. Senator Harry Reid lied about Mitt Romney's taxes, in Congress, and proudly admitted to it changing the election saying "well it worked didn't it?". It didn't put him in prison. Telling people to protest peacefully is not illegal. Republicans didn't follow up on Jan 6th "strong rhetoric" because Trump said bad, untrue, things but nothing illegal. Calling on people to fight metaphorically is not incitement to violence. Nancy Pelosi "We've got to fight like hell and get in their faces". Kamala's concession speech where she just called on people to "fight" a half dozen times. Also some of those conspiracy theories have come out true, they did let people into the capitol to quote "de-escalate", they did admit to having FBI elements in the crowd (thought they still won't admit to how many), and they did delete data at the Democrat's Jan 6th hearing against procedure. Sending alternate electors is also not illegal as it was done in Hayes/Tiden with no one criminally charged or put in jail. Pushing specious and dumb political arguments is also not illegal otherwise Democrats would be in jail as they do it on days ending in y (Obama with DACA which he himself repeatedly said he could not do, Obama making appointments without Congressional approval while congress was in session (Overturned), or Biden trying to use OSHA to pass vaccine mandates (Overturned)).

Finally some pundits have said that Trump knew he lost the 2020 election and that somehow makes it "willful" election interference. I don't think Trump was lying in the 2020 election he believed it and probably still does as Stacey Abrams thought she was Georgia's rightful governor (and she had zero evidence of voter suppression). Trump failed to produce evidence in court which mattered for the 2016 election but for proving him believing it there is ample cause. First there is always voter fraud/manipulation. From memory a man voted numerous times for both Bush/Gore, 2016 articles in the New York times talked about how the voting machines were vulnerable, 2020 Pennsylvania violated it's constitution to keep voting open longer, 2020 the film 20,000 mules tracked phones showing suspicious activity at voting places, 2020 Democrats were claiming the routine removal of mailboxes was manipulation, 2020 the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop, 2020 Tim Pool got a ballot he didn't request at an address he no longer lived at, 2020 the government implemented widespread mail in voting with no regard for ballet harvesting, 2024 Republicans were taking illegal immigrants off the voter rolls (and Democrats complained they were taking off legal voters), 2024 the census "miscount" which just happened to give the Democrats 7 more electoral votes. There are also issues of Democrats opposing voter ID, asking if you are a citizen on the census, and the circumspect bias sending illegal aliens to red areas. Lastly I have never seen a candidate more reviled by the media and Democrats, justly or not, than Trump. If Democrats were going to cheat it would have been against him. I do not believe Trump won the 2016 election but to say there was no voter fraud or reason to doubt the 2016 election is absurd.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Bonus ducks. The problems of a Left biased legal system go far and beyond Trump or these cases. Biden pressures Ukraine to fire the man investigating Hunter, brags about it on tape, Trump calls them to re-instigate the investigation, Trump impeached, not Biden, Trump. Elon Musk refuses to hire non-citizens to work on rockets because it's considered weapons technology and illegal by OUR government, gets sued by the US Department of Justice. Kyle Rittenhouse, Derek Chauvin, Let's go Brandon, earnest errors are not enough to cover the waves of perfidy and lies of omission. It is not a conspiracy, it's a a sinful ideology, that the ends justify the means, that when you are fighting the devil you are justified in anything you do.

Forget specific legal cases, I've long opined the Democrat pushed concept of a "Living Constitution" as being a direct and blatant violation of the separation of powers. Law must be interpreted by the intent of the ones who passed it, Originalism, not by a Judge divining current popular opinion (you are supposed to vote for that with the other two branches). A "Living Constitution" brought us Roe V Wade, it brought us Obergfeld, as people read things into the Constitution, in violation of the tenth Amendment, which were clearly not there. It is one of the greatest threats to our Judicial system, government, the very concept of law, it's been right out in the open for decades, and this lawlessness comes from Democrats.

Tek If you believe things simply because a jury decided them I point to another conversation with you where I mentioned BLM still believed George Zimmerman to be guilty regardless of the jury finding him innocent. I believe your response was something on the lines of "we don't know what really happened". Unless you are prepared to say BLM is wrong, and in so doing oppose a jury verdict, I too will simply say "we don't know what really happened" with the Trump cases.

Tek according to Biden, Kamala, and much of the Democratic party Trump is extremely pro-life and pro-traditional marriage. They've said it over and over and over again. In his speech in front of Independence Hall Biden inferred that if you are pro-life and Traditional marriage you are Maga. I admit I take some amusement that according to Biden you are Maga Tek. My point here is either Democrats are lying, or, Trump is the best thing ever for Pro-lifers and Pro-traditional marriage people. So which will you do, accuse the Democrats of lying or praise Trump for being Pro-life and Pro-traditional marriage?

Democrats lie regularly. They lied about Bush with the Chemical weapons in Iraq, Desantis banning books omitting it was porn and Marxist garbage in schools, they lied about the Florida COVID death count by not adjusting for age, Disney's special district status, they lied about Biden's cognitive abilities, they lied about Israel targeting civilians, they lied about the economy. Again Harry Reid lied about Mitt Romney's taxes and when confronted with it he not only admitted it he was proud of it saying "It worked, didn’t it". When they couldn't find something against Pence they accused him of hiding something by following the Billy Graham rule and talked about the fly on his head. When you have no logical, truthful, basis to argue for what you want what you do is use emotion and lie. Biden just got through saying half of America was garbage and then, without precedent, had the transcript edited. These same people who lie continually are the same ones in charge of prosecuting people (Kamala both a DA and AG) why would one think they wouldn't lie to prosecute people?

Tek if these cases now disappear because Trump is elected, he pardons himself in the one, or they are overturned on appeal, how are you going to reconcile that with a view that these cases must have merit by number? If you believe it strains believably that the cases were politically motivated you can't then believe that dropping the cases was political. Which will you do then? Agree with me the cases were specious because the legal system let him go or will you agree with me the legal system is messed up?

Finally Tek I looked at the Snopes videos it's clear in the Mark Meredith video she responded immediately after "Christ is King","Jesus is Lord", and "Jesus loves you" and yet she was only supposed to have heard the one "lies" line. She says guy"s" plural so clearly she knew there was more than one. The guy says in the article she waved directly at him and he was 20-30 yards away. We have had innumerable trolls pretend to be Christians on TF2. I have never and would never respond to "Christ is King" with "you are at the wrong place" and I would hope neither would you. Regardless of what she heard or didn't the need for you to defend her as she was specifically speaking for abortion is, once again, indirectly contrary to the very views that you claim to hold. Unless pushed you are incapable of saying anything negative about pro-choice, pro-LGBT people, if not protective of them, while claiming to oppose those views. Wrong or not these people confronting her directly, not being silent, likely effected this election. If you only push Leftist topics, and not Pro-life, Pro-Traditional marriage ones, people will vote against them because of you.

I hope you are happy with Trump Tek because you also stopped me from pushing for DeSantis who would have been far better. If you think the next four years are going to be less exhausting Leftist media and Democrats haven't learned a thing and I doubt Trump has learned to keep his mouth shut either. My cat is ill, I've no more time for replies, it took a week for this one.

 

[Tek7]

For a person who once asked me why I feel the need to fight you. Why do you feel the need to fight me Tek? I guess we are doing this though, goodbye sleep.

As I posted in reply to MonstroMarthias777 last week, "Our forums do not have any rules against political discussion and people are free to share their opinions (within reason, of course), but don't be surprised if someone responds with a counterargument."

I'll add that no one is forcing you or anyone else to participate in this discussion. You're welcome to, of course, but if other responsibilities or circumstances preclude writing lengthy replies (or you just don't want to), I and others will understand. I suspect most Christians are exhausted with the political news cycle of the last 4 years and prior.

Lastly, I'll reiterate that writing posts that are critical of the leader of one party is not equivalent to endorsing the other. Both parties have flaws because they are, as is the larger government, comprised of humans.

I still, of course, stand by the CGA statement of belief and desire to point people to Christ as Savior, Redeemer, and Lord. I've invested more time and energy than I care to admit reading and thinking over the news. I intend to reduce my news intake now that the election is over, though I plan to still read enough to at least have an overview of current events. I've said on numerous occasions that anger and fear drive ad revenue for traditional media and social media and maybe it's time I give them both less space in my life and redirect that time and energy toward other pursuits.

 

[Tek7]

I think most Americans are pretty united in wanting to vote for the real "god" of this country - the economy - and then just searching out and cherry-picking whatever logic, news events, historical interpretations, Bible verses, etc, to justify their choice instead of being honest with themselves or others about the idolatry it is.

I think you've cut to the heart of the matter. To quote James Carville, "It's the economy, stupid" (and to be abundantly clear, I'm not calling anyone "stupid," that's the quote).

I think it's clear to differentiate between the wealthy idolizing wealth (the rich want to get even richer regardless of the methods or consequences) and the poor seeking to survive; however, regardless of our financial position as Christians, our trust should be in Christ and we should seek His Kingdom first. Wealth can still be an idol to the poor.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

As I posted in reply to MonstroMarthias777 last week, "Our forums do not have any rules against political discussion and people are free to share their opinions (within reason, of course), but don't be surprised if someone responds with a counterargument."

YOU said it Tek, YOU are the one who asked "why I felt the need to fight you", as it was a reference to when you said it, why were YOU surprised. Say the above to yourself.

Lastly, I'll reiterate that writing posts that are critical of the leader of one party is not equivalent to endorsing the other. Both parties have flaws because they are, as is the larger government, comprised of humans.

I wholly agree with the second statement that as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God so are the parties flawed, and I have openly criticized both sides, however the first statement has problems. As you said in this very discussion "CONTEXT" is key.

If you have two choices and you ask a person you trust which they would take and they only say "I hate choice number 1" just how do you think that would influence them?

As an example of the concept how much do people go on about American slavery when the Arabic slave trade was worse, or that fighting against slavery was something wholly unique to the western world. Americans killed their own to end slavery. The British spurred by the enlightenment and Christianity spent their own blood and treasure eradicating slavery in the world and yet all we hear about is the evils of colonialism. As of now India's cast system still exists and British Hong Kong has been re-consumed by a decidedly worse communist China. This is why one of the Right's talking points is "stop teaching our children to hate their country". 100% teach about slavery but in context (and certainly not the revisionist 1619 project). In this manner have we ended up with college graduates indoctrinated into replacing the best governments with the worst ones.

Your behavior isn't just Trump derangement syndrome, it isn't just a specific leader of a party, it has to do with moral values. In a value system one thing is more important than another. If your house is on fire one does not save the TV over your family. I joined in 2006, of yourself you have never posted anything pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, or right leaning, without being prodded. Not on the forums, not on the Discord, and I ghosted in the admin channel for a year specifically trying to determine the values of the people there. You have posted leftist things. Bear in mind due to time I have never demanded you post anything at all. Family, job, or you may not know about an issue, I get it, but if one is going to spend time and effort one would think a person would be doing so on the things they cared about. Is determining what Kamala heard or didn't hear, and giving her an out, anywhere as important than speaking against her as she actively advocates abortion? No it's not, you can do both, but if you only ever do one what do you think the result of that would be? What do you think people will think of your values?

False prophets are to be determined by their fruits Matthew 7:15-23 .

 

[Krissa Lox]

Umm... I don't want to get in the middle of personal discussion between other members, especially for a conversation topic I have no interest in posting about publicly for personal safety reasons, because I don't think any of you are going to come to my house to help defend me if something attracts the attention of someone trawling online spaces looking for opponents to harm in the real world.

However, I do feel like maybe something to consider is that there seems to be some misunderstanding of the differences in social norms between online and in-person communities happening here, and maybe if there was some pulling back to hash out the differences in social expectations and how they might be better accommodated or reconciled, maybe better communication could result with less frustration.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Umm... I don't want to get in the middle of personal discussion between other members, especially for a conversation topic I have no interest in posting about publicly for personal safety reasons, because I don't think any of you are going to come to my house to help defend me if something attracts the attention of someone trawling online spaces looking for opponents to harm in the real world.

However, I do feel like maybe something to consider is that there seems to be some misunderstanding of the differences in social norms between online and in-person communities happening here, and maybe if there was some pulling back to hash out the differences in social expectations and how they might be better accommodated or reconciled, maybe better communication could result with less frustration.

Unfortunately I already tried to do this privately as per Matthew 18:15-17. I actually had to do the equivalent of threatening Tek to get him to have a voice conversation with me which ended up being 99% me talking, him listening, and hoping he would understand, I still don't think he does. Told him if he wants to yell at me as much as he wants I don't care (he didn't). For whatever reason he doesn't want to engage with me where we can go back and forth and have intonation. He would even likely have the advantage because I am an uneducated extreme introvert. 18 years knowing each other and we can't have a normal conversation, there is something deeply wrong there.

With people that have different opinions or beliefs contrary to the Bible I've only ever felt pity and concern for. There are some on our Discord I know. The problem with Tek is we supposedly do agree on things like pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, fiscal responsibility, and yet he is not only incapable of pushing those things he has shut those topics down, while pushing leftist things that work indirectly against them. It's not one big incident but after 18 years a pattern forms. It's very much like the problem with our media, schools, and politicians it's not so much they lie directly (they do) but that they commit lies of omission.

 

[Tek7]

Unfortunately I already tried to do this privately as per Matthew 18:15-17. I actually had to do the equivalent of threatening Tek to get him to have a voice conversation with me which ended up being 99% me talking, him listening, and hoping he would understand, I still don't think he does. Told him if he wants to yell at me as much as he wants I don't care (he didn't). For whatever reason he doesn't want to engage with me where we can go back and forth and have intonation. He would even likely have the advantage because I am an uneducated extreme introvert. 18 years knowing each other and we can't have a normal conversation, there is something deeply wrong there.

While the method of conversation was strange (Gerbil voiced his concerns during a Discord call and I took approximately a week to gather my thoughts and write a lengthy reply which I then sent by forums DM), I did listen and I took time to think over and respond to your concerns. Considering it took two weeks to arrange the Discord call, it's worth highlighting how difficult it can be for a father of three to schedule uninterrupted time beyond a few minutes in a busy household. That's why I originally recommended asynchronous communication, but I understand all too well how time-consuming it can be to write long-form responses.

I debated sharing the following excerpt from my reply but ultimately decided in favor of doing so because it's my sincere and passionate hope that this explanation will clarify my perspective and, more importantly, make a wide array of Christians feel welcomed and valued in our community and inspire them to engage in civil, good faith (if you'll pardon the pun) conversation.

The CGA is an online community. It is not a local church. While it is a digital space where we should practice our faith and seek to encourage one another, we do not meet together in person regularly to worship and teach the Word of God. As the leader of the CGA, I am not a spiritual leader. (The pastor of a local church is a spiritual leader.) I have not been called to teach the Bible in a formal capacity. The CGA is not a replacement for attending or serving in a local church. It is, as it always has been, a supplemental ministry intended to connect Christian gamers and foster healthy fellowship. As such, we have a broader statement of Christian belief that welcomes Protestants, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox. Community members can and should discuss various topics with the understanding that we agree on essential Christian doctrines, but may disagree on non-essentials, which includes politics and ethics. Because I am not a pastor and because the CGA is not a church, I am less likely to publicly take hard stances on non-essential positions in my capacity as the leader of the CGA. This does not mean I do not have my own understanding of Scripture or subjects about which I'm passionate, but rather, the CGA is not the primary place for me to explain and justify that understanding.

I considered locking this topic at this point because we've veered so far from the original topic, but I don't like locking topics and tend to avoid it where reasonable.

At the risk of ending the message abruptly, I'll close here because I need to get to bed. :3

 

[Krissa Lox]

Well, while I can understand and sympathize with a lot of pain and frustration being caused by the ever-increasing collateral damage of local churches failing to meet the needs of their local neighborhoods, Tek is actually right that in most cases digital services aren't qualified or capable for making up for their loss, and holding him personally accountable for the failures of much larger and better resourced institutions isn't very fair or going to change the reality that he's neither equipped for or called to take on that kind of role and responsibility here.

He's literally not biblically qualified to provide what you're asking for, and as much as he cares about you and wants to be considerate of your views, he can't place your wishes above God's will. While the gamut of individual or corporately-sponsored Christian "influencers" may be growing in their popularity as advances in technology make it easier to reach large numbers of people with less cost and effort and with pretty big payback if they can get people to choose them as a recipient for their tithing budget, they also come with less training, responsibility, and commitment than church-sponsored services, plus they further drain resources and relationships from local communities as people can more comfortably stay home to satisfy themselves instead of doing the hard but important and biblically-mandated work of interacting with their neighbors, in exchange for sending their money (if they even do that rather than just expecting spiritual services for free) to other - likely richer - economies elsewhere instead of supporting and investing in their own.

At the very least, if there are really are no local institutions someone can in conscience support and fellowship with, then the next recommendable step is to look for options of remote services offered by churches elsewhere, since they'll have more vetting and accountability and spiritual foundation than just any random person who can set up a broadcasting platform on the internet. And maybe something the CGA can do, while it's not a church in itself to be a qualified dispenser of spiritual advice directly, maybe we could host a thread of links to official church-sponsored resources elsewhere to help aid people in finding things they need that are beyond our scope to provide.

 

[Kendrik]

Comin' out of the woodwork on this one to voice an opinion on topics like these, their trends, and their utility or lack thereof.

Posting about politics on Christian forums or talking about them in Christian Discords is, at best, an opportunity to get "hear hear!" responses from those who agree. More commonly, its divisive, causing fractures within groups over things that may matter but are a distant second to what should be uniting those present: Faith in Jesus and the call to participate in His mission of reconciliation. At worst, it creates echo chambers of self-righteous condemnation of a world already condemned with no mention or concern for the Savior Who Has Already Come or the sharing of hope. People who might come to this place open to the Gospel of peace will be turned away by modern Pharisaical posturing before they even hear that Christ loves them because all they hear is Christians hating them and the world they would be called out of. By extension, those who would use this place to engage in mission move on, realizing that the shouting from soapboxes drowns out the call of the Gospel.

The Gospel is offensive. We shouldn't be.