Too all of you discouraged brothers and sisters

jokitaylor

Banned
I see from prayer requests and from talking to people in game that some of you are truly discouraged, tired, and just plain worn out.

Phlippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

One thing that is clear from that verse is that God knew we would be anxious. He gives us the answer: Put our prayers and petitions before Him. He is ready to receive our burdens.

We are not dysfunctional because we struggle, we are sinners saved by grace, and that grace is poured out into our lives through Jesus Christ. May the God of peace, joy and comfort be with you this day, He knows your burdens and He cares for you!
 
Amen. What a beautiful reminder too, thank you Pneuma. God is attentive to our needs and He actually wants us to give our burdens to Him. What an amazing love God has for His children! We are truly blessed beyond comprehension!!
 
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What if you just believe that your sins were not paid for on the cross?

I've been in this bog of doubt for months and nothing helps.
 
What if you just believe that your sins were not paid for on the cross?

I've been in this bog of doubt for months and nothing helps.

Praying for you man. Fight the fight of faith. Our pride wants nothing more than to elevate ourselves to a position that says falsely that our sins are bigger than God can handle. Inversely the devil wants us to believe falsely we are not chosen and God condemns us.

1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2For the law of(A) the Spirit of life(B) has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3For(C) God has done what the law,(D) weakened by the flesh,(E) could not do.(F) By sending his own Son(G) in the likeness of sinful flesh and(H) for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that(I) the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,(J) who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. - Romans 8:1-5
 
What if you just believe that your sins were not paid for on the cross?

I've been in this bog of doubt for months and nothing helps.

I'm going to take a crack at this since I think for the most part I understand where you are coming from.

The only solution is not logic from man's perspective but rather Scriptural truth.

There are always two perspectives in salvation - God's and ours.

God's perspective is perfect and obviously He does not struggle with the issue of election since His ways are perfect.

Our perspective is marred by our sinful state. We are not capable of fully grasping and understanding why God does what He does in salvation.

In God's perspective He knows exactly who will be saved and knows who will be the beneficiary of His atoning sacrifice. This knowledge is not something that we have.

In our perspective we are not given complete revelation or knowledge regarding who will be saved. It is much like we do not know when Christ will return - only that it is imminent. The point of Christ's return is to be ready. The point of the Gospel is to respond or obey the Gospel as Thessalonians says.

So for us the issue is never really - am I one of the elect, the issue is - did I obey the Gospel?

The Bible says very clearly that we are to obey the Gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Jesus says in John 11:25 - He who believes in me will live even though He dies. Of course John 3:16 is not inappropriate either as it says whosoever believes. Romans 10:9 tells us that if we believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will be saved.

So the criteria for us is obedience. That obedience is marked by belief. Here is the thing about belief: Ephesians 2:5 tells us that we were made alive in Christ while we were dead in our sins and trespasses. Our regeneration precedes belief. A dead man cannot respond. Faith is a gift from God.

So here is the bottom line - if we take the Scripture at face value, it says our belief in Christ (which does not mean that we only believe that He existed, but that we are sinners, that we repent, and believe that Christ died and rose again) is what saves us. So if we believe, then we are born again.

So the question to ask yourself is have you repented of your sins, and do you believe that Jesus died and rose again? If so you are not satanically deceived, you have obeyed the Gospel.

I hope this helps you.
 
That is good, and I have been down that road with many people and I agree fully with what you wrote.
But (you knew that was coming), the verse that I think pleages me the most is "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." (NASB, James 2:19) Then you do a word study on the word believe and is is the same that is used in all the verses you brought up about salvation. So, where is the difference? Because the demons are not saved, so how do we know? Obediance or work as James calls it, if we believe and are save and your sins paid for you will obey and do the work of God.... correct?

So if that is true I would want to server God and there in lies the issue... I don't want to, sure I try to follow the commandmant, but it feels more out of moral need and personal desire that a longing to server my God. I go to church and all I do is question the teaching the songs and the fact that it seems all silly the way we do church, it doesn't feel like worship. It feels like a lot of people playing church and wanting to feel better about themselves. I go feel crappy about my self and leave in a worse state than when I went.

Don't get me wrong, some days I feel charged, but then Sunday comes and I get all crappy again.

And this is all the base line stuff, it goes deeper.
 
I am a firm believer in not giving people false assurance of salvation, so I won't patronize you with that kind of nonsense.

I believe that verses like Philippians 2:12 - which call us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (and of course the context is never suggesting a works based salvation), are there because they demand that we don't take our salvation lightly but that we soberly and honestly look before God as to where we stand.

Before I go any further down the road of James 2:19 - I ask this question, did every righteous saint of God in Scripture, always display passion and zeal to obey the Lord?

Of course we are not making excuses to sin or to do whatever we want, because that is an abomination to the new birth. But in all seriousness I am not sure the criteria of evaluation is merely our passion or desire.

This is juxtaposed with the reality that a good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree does not. So I understand the difficulty you find yourself in, but in summary can you really say that passion and desire at all times marked the saints in Scripture?
 
True... One of the things that I do hold true to, that no matter what, heaven or hell, I'm where God wants me, doing what God wants, furthering his Kingdom... and that is a good thing, not matter where I end up.
 
That is good, and I have been down that road with many people and I agree fully with what you wrote.
But (you knew that was coming), the verse that I think pleages me the most is "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." (NASB, James 2:19) Then you do a word study on the word believe and is is the same that is used in all the verses you brought up about salvation. So, where is the difference? Because the demons are not saved, so how do we know? Obediance or work as James calls it, if we believe and are save and your sins paid for you will obey and do the work of God.... correct?

So if that is true I would want to server God and there in lies the issue... I don't want to, sure I try to follow the commandmant, but it feels more out of moral need and personal desire that a longing to server my God. I go to church and all I do is question the teaching the songs and the fact that it seems all silly the way we do church, it doesn't feel like worship. It feels like a lot of people playing church and wanting to feel better about themselves. I go feel crappy about my self and leave in a worse state than when I went.

Don't get me wrong, some days I feel charged, but then Sunday comes and I get all crappy again.

And this is all the base line stuff, it goes deeper.

I hear you, Mordos. How well I understand the truth that the Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I so relate to Paul's struggles in Romans 6-8.

I think key to keeping ourselves grounded and properly oriented to God, though, is the ability to separate our emotions from the equation. Our feelings are subjective and fickle. They change based on our health, our circumstances, our surroundings, the people we are around, what we had for breakfast, how the latest raid went in game... Suffice it to say that sometimes our feelings reflect reality and often they don't. This is why it's so important that we ground our relationship with God on something that isn't subjective, isn't flighty, and doesn't change. His truth, and His word.

I don't always feel 'in love with God'. Then again, I don't always feel 'in love' with my wife. How I feel about her at any given moment doesn't change the fact that she is still my wife. Sometimes I revel in that fact. (*She* chose *me*? Really?? What was she thinking?!? I just hope she doesn't figure out what a knucklehead I really am.) Sometimes I'm annoyed with her or angry with her. Sometimes I just feel like I need my space for a little while. And I know that she goes through the same range of emotions. It's part of life in a fallen world.

The butterflies I felt when my wife and I were first dating went away long ago, but what replaced them is MUCH more substantial and important. Just as marriage is a picture of our relationship with God, I think there's a similar parallel there. I am giddy that the God who holds the universe in the span of His hands even knows who I am, let alone reached out in pursuit of an intimate relationship with me. Yet I don't always 'feel it'. I'm a sinner. I'm human. I'm frail. That's why I need His strength and the assurance that He gives me in His Word.

You mention that you should want to serve Him. I think there is truth in that statement, but I think there's also a snare. God gives us His law to be a blessing to us, not a burden. God's heart is for us to willingly choose to follow Him and respond out of the fullness of our hearts in gratitude for what has already been done for us. His intent isn't to burden us, shame us, and browbeat us into doing 'God stuff' in fear of getting zapped. (Not implying this is your mindset...just using a bit of hyperbole.) The pictures He gives us in scripture are what we should be aiming for...our goal. Getting there is the process. We're not instantly brought into that state when we submit our lives to God. I don't even believe that we can completely arrive there on this side of eternity. But this is what we are to be moving towards. Sometimes I want to. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I think God is OK with me struggling with it, and sometimes I hear him saying, "OK, it's time to suck it up and deal with life right now. I have things I want to do in and through you, and you need to put aside your program and get with Mine."

I'm reminded of David's plea in Psalm 51. "Restore to me the joy of Your salvation." David's plea was in response to his sin, but I think we all find ourselves here from time to time. We can get so caught up in the details that we lose sight of the big picture. We get so busy doing, working, striving, comparing and measuring ourselves against God's perfection that we lose the joy of simply being. Being in His presence, being His children, His heirs, His beloved. Simply sitting back and enjoying intimacy with Him.

Yes, our sin robs us of our joy far too often. And we need to take our sinfulness seriously. Yes, it matters. But - He has overcome our sin. He has borne the burden and given us forgiveness and restoration. He has taken our sin and cast it as far as the east is from the west. His goodness is infinitely greater than our cruddiness.

I think one key to this struggle is our basic concept of who God is. We all see Him in our own unique way, and I think that image we each have of him impacts so much of our spiritual life. If we see Him primarily as a judge, interested in catching us and calling us out when we fail, then we're going to be motivated by not making God mad, doing the minimum needed so as not to 'get yelled at' by God, and the concept of a truly intimate relationship with Him will probably be pretty hard to imagine.

If, on the other hand, we see God primarily as a loving father, the 'Abba Father' (i.e. 'Daddy') that Jesus spoke of, we're going to approach Him very differently. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a very healthy relationship with my earthly dad. He knows my good points and my bad, and loves me through it all. I can be real with him and know that I'm safe in that. This makes it pretty easy for me to transfer these concepts to God, realizing how much more faithful and trustworthy He is them my own dad, who is, after all, fallen and sinful. Looking at God this way, I don't feel a need to perform or measure up to a standard in order for Him to accept me. Rather, I feel a desire to obey Him out of gratitude and a sense of amazement that He wants to use a knucklehead like me to accomplish His purposes in this world.

I don't know how much this speaks into your current circumstances, Mordos, but the wall of text just seemed to take over there, and I guess I'm thinking 'out loud' here. Once you start channeling Gilga, it's hard to stop. =)

I do feel your burden, though, and will be praying that God refreshes your heart and mind, and brings anew the joy of simply being His.
 
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