LionOfJudah
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uhh right lets play to a virgin who we think is god.....
The Serpent in the Garden
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You should read the Bible sometime. Remember when the disciples were fighting over who would be first in heaven, and Jesus told them that the first would be last and the last would be first, and that the one who served the the most would be the most exalted. Now, what does this tell us? It tells us that Somebody will be in charge. It tells us that our expectations will be inverted. And it tells us that whoever gets the job will deserve it because of his OR HER hard work.[b said:
Christ also says he will send a Comforter -- one who will console us. He does not say he will comfort us Himself. It would be another person.
Then we have the incident at the Crucifixion where Christ tells John, the Disciple He loved, that Mary would be His Mother, and that John would be Her Son. What happened there? Well, John was the only Apostle who wasn't hiding like a coward. His Love conquered his fear. So, Christ gave His Mother to Those who would Really Love Him, and He gave them to His Mother.
What? You didn't know this already. Why don't little prickidodas like you ever REALLY read your Bibles.
I shouldn't be too hard on you though... most Prots insist on taking Mary's Virginity away with coarse insulting accusations, choosing to ignore everything She has claimed for Herself over the last two thousand years of active Revelation. They impune Her virtue, Her purity, and then call Her a liar. Maybe you just forgot. Are you sure you don't want to insult the Mother of Jesus just so you can be like everybody else? Go ahead, be one of the gang. There will be the sheep and the goats. You wouldn't want to be mistaken for a sheep, would you.
CCGR
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we didn't take her virginity away, Joseph did. Jesus in a sense had half brothers, one of them being Jude.
mrpopdrinker
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Assuming that is not a misquote or very close to what the Bible says as I cannot find it myself I say this. Yeshua served the most and he shall be the ruler of heaven. And yes Joseph took away her virginity I wasent born yet. The comforter is the Holy Spirit or Paraclete or Ruach HaKodesh. Whatever you wish to call him it is the Spirit of God. Yeshua just wanted somone to take care of his mother I believe.[b said:
LionOfJudah
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he sent the Holy Spirit Read Acts, to be our comforter
Ultima Avatar
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Actually, I think Leo Volont, you have caught yourself in a Catch-22. Peter supervised at least one of the gospels accounts (Matthew) and it is in Matthew 1 (the first, of all places), that it specifically states "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she hd brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS."
Firstborn implies there shall be more. To not know her is to not know her sexually, so unless Joseph and Mary were into tools and avoiding the normal way, Mary most certainly did not remain a virgin all of her life. Tough luck, I know, but hey, not all mothers of God are perfect.
Firstborn implies there shall be more. To not know her is to not know her sexually, so unless Joseph and Mary were into tools and avoiding the normal way, Mary most certainly did not remain a virgin all of her life. Tough luck, I know, but hey, not all mothers of God are perfect.
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Who are you going to believe -- a dusty reference material that does not distinguish between the word "brother" and "cousin" -- the same word in Aramaic... or Our Lady the Blessed Virgin who has appeared over a dozen times and stressed the point that She is indeed ever Virgin.[b said:
You will not get into Heaven calling Our Lady a liar.
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Hi Ultima,[b said:
"Firstborn" is a legal title. This means that this is the child who will inheret. Besides, a First Born child is firstborn whether there is a second or not. So, against Our Lady's repeated word you have only some vague inference to go on.
Also, in the old testament we find the same gramatical construction using the word "til" -- "the man did not eat till he was dead". When it is written that Joseph did not have relations up to the time of Christ's birth -- that is what it means. But it does not say that he started fornicating immediately afterwards. Just as the Dead Man did not begin to eat after he died.
You have only the inference of possibility on your side when you are calling The Mother of God a liar. I would think you would want stronger proof to justify the pain you will suffer when you go to Hell for such insults.
mrpopdrinker
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Actually when I get to heaven I believe I will be comended for having a discerning spirit. This women who appeared was not Mary but a demon. Matthew 1:20 "and after he has considered this an angel appeared to him in a dream and said. Joseph son of David do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife because what has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." That verse clearly implies that Joseph is or will or is about to become her husband. I assure you if they where in the right mind they would have "done somthing" after the birth of Yeshua Messiah.[b said:
CCGR
Member
well I'm certainly not going to believe a bunch of guys making up theology and calling it a vatican counsel.[b said:
these are not general brothers of Christ but offspring of Mary and Joseph but hey maybe she was artifically inseminated. Believe what you want but the Bible says this
Jesus had brothers and sisters
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
Matthew 1:25
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Matthew 13:55
And it was told him [by certain] which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
Luke 8:20
But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Galatians 1:19
I mean no disrespect to Mary, she was very blessed but is not a goddess.
mrpopdrinker
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Well said but let me go a bit further on this. Mary was blessed yup. Soloman was blessed. Avraham was blessed. John was blessed. Elijah was blessed. I am blessed. CCGR is blessed. Many people are blessed. But that does not meen you make big statues to them and pray to them. Nor adore them in any way. Worship and adoration is God's no one else is deserving.[b said:
Ultima Avatar
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That's a fairly interesting point...but to be fair, your point is not actually so backed-up. Your use of the word "fornicating" is misplaced, b/c that would be in the terms of unmarried sexual relations. THAT is fornication. Adultery is sexual relations with another when married. And...blessed is the regular 'twixt the couple.
Now I have this question (Mary never claimed to be a virgin for life...so how am I calling her a liar? Matter of fact, Mary is a very minor character in the New Testament, aside from birthing the Christ): WHY is it so important that Mary be a virgin for the Catholic Church? Is it because if she's not, then the Catholic Church has been deceived and has been deceiving countless others for some two millennia? Is it so important that Holy-Mary-Mother-of-God remain a virgin all of her mortal life? WHY? Why not do what God programmed the human body to do: screw like mad? I do not understand this programming of the Catholic Church (via Mary?), so if you would...answer my questions, por favor.
Now I have this question (Mary never claimed to be a virgin for life...so how am I calling her a liar? Matter of fact, Mary is a very minor character in the New Testament, aside from birthing the Christ): WHY is it so important that Mary be a virgin for the Catholic Church? Is it because if she's not, then the Catholic Church has been deceived and has been deceiving countless others for some two millennia? Is it so important that Holy-Mary-Mother-of-God remain a virgin all of her mortal life? WHY? Why not do what God programmed the human body to do: screw like mad? I do not understand this programming of the Catholic Church (via Mary?), so if you would...answer my questions, por favor.
CCGR
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my definition of adultery is sex outside of marriage which would include fornication. to lazy to look it up on dictionary.com for official definition
Adultry = sex with someone who is married (outside marriage, natch).[b said:Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 14 2003,9:29)]my definition of adultery is sex outside of marriage which would include fornication. to lazy to look it up on dictionary.com for official definition
I'm single, I do a married woman, it is adultry.
Otherwise, it's fornication. Oh, and...the "f" word is not an acronym involving "fornication"
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Not a Goddess? In what sense? The Greeks defined their 'gods' (god with a little 'g') as simply those who had attained to or were 'immortal'. Mary is certainly an 'immortal' (the angels say that She will be called "blessed" forever). And She is a Spirit. She has all the Spiritual attributes -- She can be in more than one place at the same time, go through walls -- all that neet stuff.[b said:
Besides, If Christ will not honor his own Mother who served Him everyday of his life, and then supported His Church instintingly for its first 15 years, then who, exactly will he honor? It is like everybody thinks they can make themselves greater in Heaven by making Our Lady less -- they want to climb up by walking over Her. I don't think it works like that.
mrpopdrinker
New Member
Actually all men have fallen short of the glory of God and he is no respecter of persons. So mary is a god because she is spirit and imoortal? Well I guess we are all gods as we all have a spirit and all are immortal in the sense that only the body can die. Even so we will all both believers and non believers be given a new body that cannot die. Mary is not better then me Mary is no better then anyone who is blessed. Mary is not a virgen matthew 1:24-25 says that after Yeshua was born they "got it on". Mary is not sinless Luke 1:46-47 "and Mary said. My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my saviour". In Luke 11:27-28 a women shouted blesse is Mary who gave you birth and Yeshua said blessed are those rather that keep the Word of God and obey it.
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Dear Ultima,[b said:
She claimed in her last zillion Apparitions to be a Virgin.
You might have noticed that there was not a book in the Bible dedicated to Mary.
What you need to do is find an Encyclopedia Britannica and then hold a Bible next to it. Pretty small, huh. At the end of one Gospel it says that no number of books could contain all of the Gospel truths. Mary's perpetual virginity is one of the things that fell through this rather large crack. When it is said that the Gospels contain all knowledge, it is to contradict the Gospels themselves.
Now, why should be beleive a Miraculous Apparition that comes with prophecy and performs miracles? Well, if we did not believe that, there would be no reason to believe any of the Bible -- it is all based on Divine Revelation, and, nowadays, Mary is Our Prophet -- the One who brings us the Word of God. What!? We are not as good as the ancient Jews? With so much Error, we need the Guidance of Heaven. This comes from Mary.
And it goes beyond her own words. The Angels introduce Her as such. "Behold! The Virgin". and everyone always knows who they're talking about.
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For all the lipservice the Catholic Church gives to the sanctity of Marriage, all the Initiated (the monks and nuns) know that even in marriage the sex act can't pass without raising some carnal stink. You must clip your angelic wings in order to thrust about like some animal. Only those at the bottom cannot go to the top. And if you are still an actively sexual animal, you are at the bottom.[b said:Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 15 2003,4:11)]Adultry = sex with someone who is married (outside marriage, natch).[b said:Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 14 2003,9:29)]my definition of adultery is sex outside of marriage which would include fornication. to lazy to look it up on dictionary.com for official definition
I'm single, I do a married woman, it is adultry.
Otherwise, it's fornication. Oh, and...the "f" word is not an acronym involving "fornication"(it is derived from Germanic) (totally OT, but interesting none the less)
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You need to realize that Heaven is not an egalitarian Society. There are ranks. Jesus spoke of a heavenly hierarchy -- who would be highest and lowest.[b said:
In this sense, that you will be ranked, it would be ridiculous to suppose you would be equal to Mary. For instance. Have you ever had sex? Yes. Well, you fell off of one complete wrung right there. Ever been disobedient? Arrogant? Any sin will knock you further down away from Mary. And don't quote Paul saying that everyone has sinned and so he must have been specifically thinking of Mary. If any philosopher in history can be shown to be a master of the incomplete thought, it is Paul. In 14 books he never said one word about the Blessed Virgin -- but he can't go a page without glorifying himself.
mrpopdrinker
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So you cant argue against the scriptures so you go against Paul? I am sorry but Mary is no different then I. I gave you versus in which Mary herself said she was a sinner. I gave you a verse that says Mary is no different. I gave you a verse that said she did not die a virgen. You cannot refute this because you cannot prove your claims because they are false and do not go with the Word.