The ps3 is now a.... Wii????

[Joshinator]

Hey, have any of you guys seen the latest ps3 motion controller development? It is called playstation move, and its almost the same thing as the wii controller. Even the people reviewing it say it feels like a wii controller.... Have fun with your hybrid consoles now

 

[Tek7]

Troll post is troll?

The Playstation Move, from what I've seen, is more technologically advanced than the Wii Remote or even MotionPlus (which delivers 1:1 motion controls on the Wii).

If/when I get a Playstation 3, I'll be watching for games specifically designed for the Move controller. Wii Sports Resort was a blast to play and I've been disappointed that there haven't been more titles that make proper use of the Wii's MotionPlus accessory.

Regardless of whether the Move controller bombs or not, it's clear that Nintendo's gamble (focusing on the controller hardware instead of the console hardware) has inspired competition from both Microsoft and Sony.

 

[Keero]

Hey, I'd rather have a wand then waving my hands and feet around to talk to a virtual boy.

 

[RyanB]

I'll feed the troll.

No, it's not a Wii. It has a hard drive (just installed a 320gb to replace my 60), high def graphics, online play that isn't terrible, bluetooth, blueray, voice chat, trophies, media capabilities, but most importantly....
good games that I can play for more than a week. The Wii doesn't suffer from having some decent games, I love my Marios and Zeldas. It's the replayability that stinks.

Anyway, yeah, as said...troll post is troll, and yes, this is an obvious rip-off, but I would like to point out a few important things:
* The motion control looks perfect with zero lag. I'll hold my judgement until I have it in my hands, but it seems they are doing it right the first time.
* Because the PS3 is not 10 year old hardware, it can install game updates. So, even though it might seem like they're "late" to the game, bear in mind that any shooter, party, or whatever game can come out with a motion control patch. I'm not saying many will (devs tend to stop supporting a game after a certain point), but they can.

I've owned my Wii since launch and have yet to be given the opportunity to play an adventure RPG using the Wiimote as a sword. DQ swords was half there but just didn't deliver. All that said - I expect PS3 devs to deliver a much better motion control experience very soon than I've experienced on the Wii. I'm not a "fanboy", just a very disappointed customer who is not alone.

Nintendo has become the Apple of the game consoles - cheaply made hardware with gouging accessories, sales are few and far between, they tell the gamer how they're "supposed" to game, rather than listening to their customers, and they will do something (poorly, mind you) that is 10 years old and scream how innovative they are. Motion control was "new" to consoles when Nintendo did it, but it was far from new.

 

[Tek7]

I'll feed the troll.

No, it's not a Wii. It has a hard drive (just installed a 320gb to replace my 60), high def graphics, online play that isn't terrible, bluetooth, blueray, voice chat, trophies, media capabilities, but most importantly....
good games that I can play for more than a week. The Wii doesn't suffer from having some decent games, I love my Marios and Zeldas. It's the replayability that stinks.

Anyway, yeah, as said...troll post is troll, and yes, this is an obvious rip-off, but I would like to point out a few important things:
* The motion control looks perfect with zero lag. I'll hold my judgement until I have it in my hands, but it seems they are doing it right the first time.
* Because the PS3 is not 10 year old hardware, it can install game updates. So, even though it might seem like they're "late" to the game, bear in mind that any shooter, party, or whatever game can come out with a motion control patch. I'm not saying many will (devs tend to stop supporting a game after a certain point), but they can.

I've owned my Wii since launch and have yet to be given the opportunity to play an adventure RPG using the Wiimote as a sword. DQ swords was half there but just didn't deliver. All that said - I expect PS3 devs to deliver a much better motion control experience very soon than I've experienced on the Wii. I'm not a "fanboy", just a very disappointed customer who is not alone.

Nintendo has become the Apple of the game consoles - cheaply made hardware with gouging accessories, sales are few and far between, they tell the gamer how they're "supposed" to game, rather than listening to their customers, and they will do something (poorly, mind you) that is 10 years old and scream how innovative they are. Motion control was "new" to consoles when Nintendo did it, but it was far from new.

DNFTT.

 

[RyanB]

/Drops some breadcrumbs as he crosses Joshinator's bridge

There we go. Hey, nothing wrong with speaking the truth!

 

[Joshinator]

Sorry not meant to be troll... Just probably came off wrong up there. It was meant to be informative

 

[Keero]

I think this sums it all up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0puP8nrIU8&feature=player_embedded

Funny ad about the Move and pokes fun at the Wii and Natal. xD

 

[Tek7]

Hey, nothing wrong with speaking my opinion!

Fixed.

No, it's not a Wii. It has a hard drive (just installed a 320gb to replace my 60), high def graphics, online play that isn't terrible, bluetooth, blueray, voice chat, trophies, media capabilities, but most importantly....

Wii Remotes use Bluetooth to function.

Voice chat is available through the WiiSpeak peripheral.

And if, by "high def graphics," you mean 720p or 1080p, then no, the Wii doesn't offer those resolutions. It does offer 480p, though.

I'll concede that online multiplayer for the Wii is weak, based solely on personal experience. Few games include online multiplayer. Some do a fair job with it, though you have to get past the Friends Codes rot. Other games, like Super Smash Bros. Brawl, lag so badly that it effectively eliminates the purpose of including online multiplayer in the first place.

good games that I can play for more than a week. The Wii doesn't suffer from having some decent games, I love my Marios and Zeldas. It's the replayability that stinks.

There's a long list of fantastic games for the Wii, many of them with serious replayability. When you've played every released game in this (incomplete) list and decided you didn't like any or only a small portion of them, then you can say the Wii has nothing to offer you.

Anyway, yeah, as said...troll post is troll, and yes, this is an obvious rip-off, but I would like to point out a few important things:
* The motion control looks perfect with zero lag. I'll hold my judgement until I have it in my hands, but it seems they are doing it right the first time.

I have not read a single post that implies or states that the Move controllers offers a zero-lag experience. The lag may be insignificant, but it's not nil. (Is that a double negative?)

* Because the PS3 is not 10 year old hardware, it can install game updates. So, even though it might seem like they're "late" to the game, bear in mind that any shooter, party, or whatever game can come out with a motion control patch. I'm not saying many will (devs tend to stop supporting a game after a certain point), but they can.

I have to wonder what would be involved in "patching" motion controls into a game released 1-3 years ago would involve. I imagine it would be more involved than one would first think.

I've owned my Wii since launch and have yet to be given the opportunity to play an adventure RPG using the Wiimote as a sword.

There aren't any adventure RPGs that meet that criteria yet, but there are reports that indicate the next Zelda Wii game will support MotionPlus.

If you're itching for some surprisingly fun virtual swordplay, I'd highly recommend Wii Sports Resort's Swordplay games. It was, for me, the highlight of the full WSR package.

DQ swords was half there but just didn't deliver. All that said - I expect PS3 devs to deliver a much better motion control experience very soon than I've experienced on the Wii. I'm not a "fanboy", just a very disappointed customer who is not alone.

I would hope they'd deliver a much better motion control experience. They've had three more years to work on theirs.

Nintendo has become the Apple of the game consoles - cheaply made hardware with gouging accessories, sales are few and far between, they tell the gamer how they're "supposed" to game, rather than listening to their customers, and they will do something (poorly, mind you) that is 10 years old and scream how innovative they are. Motion control was "new" to consoles when Nintendo did it, but it was far from new.

"Cheaply made." Do you mean "inexpensively" or "with shoddy materials"? Yes, the Wii console and Wii Remote are inexpensive to produce, but both components feel solid and have held up well after 3 years of frequent use.

"Gouging accessories." Are the accessories you mention first-party or third-party? You can blame Nintendo for selling the Zapper (which is essentially a plastic shell for a Remote and Nunchuk) for $20 USD. I don't know how much the Wii Wheel (again, a plastic shell for an existing controller) costs on its own, but it was packaged with Mario Kart Wii for no additional cost (i.e. the game still cost $50 USD at launch).

"They tell the gamer how they're 'supposed' to game." Huh? What does that even mean? I can't make sense of that line.

If you're talking about Friends Codes, I'll admit that their approach to Friends lists is flawed.

"Listening to their customers." Oh, you mean the droves upon droves that purchased a Gamecube? </sarcasm>

Seriously, though, every Nintendo console since the SNES sold less than the previous system. Nintendo tried a different business approach with the Wii and it paid off.

They've introduced a multitude of people who wouldn't otherwise take a second glance at a video game console to the joy of video games with titles like Wii Sports, Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario Kart Wii.

"Do something (and poorly, mind you)." I'll admit that the base Wii Remote doesn't live up to expectations when the average person imagines motion controls, but the first generation of any mass market technology never does. It's also worth nothing that the MotionPlus significantly improves on the original model and only a few years later.

Keep in mind that developing and mass producing controllers capable of true 1:1 motion controls while still small enough to fit in the average player's hand--and do it all while turning a profit on the hardware instead of taking a loss and recouping the money on software licensing--was an impressive accomplishment. There were a number of challenges--form factor, parts pricing, usability, and hardware failure rates. I think Nintendo did a great job for being the first to bring home console video game motion controls to a larger audience.

As for motion controls being "10 years old," what are you basing this on? If you mean prototypes, then maybe so. But again, we're not talking about prototypes. We're talking about hardware realized on a massive scale. Again, Nintendo tried something different--focus on controls rather than graphic processing power--and it paid off.

As for Nintendo adding new features through new system files, well, you got me there.

There are a number of other points I could bring up: Price comparison of launch consoles (Wii's $250 price tag as opposed to the PS3's $500 and $600 options), a list of very promising Wii titles due out before Q3 2010, the fact that the Wii wasn't designed to compete directly against the 360 or PS3, people blaming Nintendo for third parties churning out lazy ports and shovelware and stubbornly refusing to adapt to a new design concept, and so on.

Aye, the Wii has its flaws. I wouldn't expect any "core" gamer to play the Wii exclusively (which is why I still play PC and PS2 games regularly). Most third party developers treat motion controls like a gimmick rather than a concept that's here to stay (a shift that, ironically, Microsoft and Sony proved by their decision to incorporate motion controls in their current-gen consoles). Nintendo could stand to show talented third-party developers some more love. (Publishing Dragon Quest IX in the US is a good start). Nintendo needs to respond to consumer demands more quickly. (Did it really take that long to come up with the SD Card Channel?)

Perhaps most importantly: Nintendo and third party Wii developers alike need to advertise their Wii games. How many times have I recommended a game like Muramasa and had people have no idea what I'm talking about?

I could go on, but I'll close with this: I played Mario Kart Wii with my parents. I used the Wii Remote + Nunchuk control style. My mom opted for the Wii Wheel control. My dad also chose the Wheel. And we all had fun.

And, ultimately, that's what it boils down to. There are plenty of fun games on the Wii, if you're willing to dig a little.

</offtopic>

Yes, I do plan on getting a Playstation 3 eventually. When I do, I anticipate buying a Move controller as well. And if third party developers are lazy and just tack on waggle to PS3 games as a gimmick, I'll yell at them just like I yell at lazy third-party Wii game developers.

 

[Zazzy]

Don't know how to follow up that novel above, other than just a quick statement of my own humble opinion.

I'm not excited about motion controls. I have a Wii. It's not really my thing. I like my dual joystick control. The sixaxis is cool. But I don't want a "stick" for a controller.

 

[Hescominsoon]

move is limited to two players.

 

[blackgravity]

it's also limited to a working ps3

which mine isn't, at the moment :-(

 

[RyanB]

What happened to "DNFTT"?

Fixed.

Nah, not fixed. I truthfully reported my opinion. Most of that was fact, though, which I'll cover more below.

Wii Remotes use Bluetooth to function.

Voice chat is available through the WiiSpeak peripheral.

And if, by "high def graphics," you mean 720p or 1080p, then no, the Wii doesn't offer those resolutions. It does offer 480p, though.

I'll concede that online multiplayer for the Wii is weak, based solely on personal experience. Few games include online multiplayer. Some do a fair job with it, though you have to get past the Friends Codes rot. Other games, like Super Smash Bros. Brawl, lag so badly that it effectively eliminates the purpose of including online multiplayer in the first place.

Yes, Wiimotes use bluetooth to transfer information, which amounts to basically nothing. Do we really spend much time 30 feet from our TVs on the Wii? Good luck finding your pointer. Bluetooth on the Wii provides virtually no use to the customer.

Here's what I meant by bluetooth: my bluetooth keyboard and mouse work with my PS3. So does my headset. None of them are Sony products, and any bluetooth device that meets the bluetooth profile will work. My 320GB hard drive cost me only $49.99. Again, I did not buy a "Sony" hard drive. Nintendo could have done this but didn't, which is one of the reasons I liken them to Apple. They keep tight control (except for the shovelware) at the cost of the consumer. If they do ever grace their customers with voice chat and a hard drive, odds are it will be for expensive Nintendo-only devices. Opinion? Yes, but it would be silly to believe otherwise.

I honestly do not like Sony as a company (I'm looking at YOU SecuROM and everything having to do with record labels/movie labels). Like 'em or hate 'em the hardware and software on the PS3 is much more open than the competitors...leading to a better value in the end.

As for hi-def...I'm a huge proponent of "gameplay over graphics". Also, many games look fine in 480...primarily cartoony or cell-shaded games. Okami was beautiful. Most everything else can certainly benefit from 720, which is honestly what most games are at. You know I'm looking forward to 3D Dot Heroes.

There's a long list of fantastic games for the Wii, many of them with serious replayability. When you've played every released game in this (incomplete) list and decided you didn't like any or only a small portion of them, then you can say the Wii has nothing to offer you.

Obviously everyone's mileage will vary by game, so there is some opinion involved, but there was more behind me saying that replayability is an issue on the Wii. As for me, I own and have played most of the games on your list, and they were fantastic. I read all the time about people talking about how their Wii collects dust, and thought, "Yup, me too!". But I own plenty of good Wii games...and so does everyone else. Nintendo is obviously not having a problem selling games. That's what led me to replayability.

I realized that the reason I personally do not play my Wii is because games on the Wii lack a few key nuggets that make a game "replayable" for most people:
* Good online play
* Ever-dangling virtual carrots.

World of Warcraft is king at these two things. Wii games are not. I love a great single player game, and I thought SM Galaxy/Twilight Princess were superb games, but they do not have "high" replayability. Maybe bust through them again every now and then and collect all the hearts/stars, but that's about it. Saying WoW can be a time sink isn't an "opinion", we have a lot of evidence to back that up. I think the same goes for the amount of time people spend with their Wiis. Mileage may vary, of course.

PS3 and 360 games have trophies/achievements (carrots) if that's your thing, great online play in many games, etc. Games on the Wii that take much time to "complete" everything are few and far between. It's ironic that while the Wii rules the party games...the system "built for multiplayer" has such a bad online experience.

I have not read a single post that implies or states that the Move controllers offers a zero-lag experience. The lag may be insignificant, but it's not nil. (Is that a double negative?)

Here is my understanding of how the Sony wand works. Again, I'll of course reserve judgment until it is in my living room:
Information is processed inside the controllers and sent to the playstation eye at the speed of light. The information is then transferred on down to the PS3 via USB. Translation? It's as fast as it could possibly be, only limited by the speed of the PS3 processor (which is arguably faster than what the Wii is running). I believe the Wii actually uses infrared to pass motion info, but don't quote me on that.

Now, while I don't have the Move in my hand, here's the prototype demo from last year:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-mB5eOAmpE
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC4t4_c8cQE

Looks pretty convincing to me.

I have to wonder what would be involved in "patching" motion controls into a game released 1-3 years ago would involve. I imagine it would be more involved than one would first think.

Programming? Super simple.
Putting the patch out? Super simple. (although publishers do pay for bandwidth on PSN)
QA to test every aspect, make sure the game isn't too hard/easy, etc? Getting feedback to programmers to make adjustments and making/testing those adjustments? This is where the time (money) is.

I do not expect a large portion of old games to be patched backwards patched. That said, I know that Sony has been very up front about putting effort into supporting this peripheral, so we'll see how that plays out...especially with first-party games. I'd love to swap in motion control for Resistance 2.

There aren't any adventure RPGs that meet that criteria yet, but there are reports that indicate the next Zelda Wii game will support MotionPlus.

If you're itching for some surprisingly fun virtual swordplay, I'd highly recommend Wii Sports Resort's Swordplay games. It was, for me, the highlight of the full WSR package.

I had forgot to mention the next Zelda (TP was really a GC game), and thought about going back and editing, but just didn't. I agree and do expect the next Zelda to be everything I'm hoping for. I also have high hopes for Dragon Quest 10. I do own Sports Plus, and it's a very fun tech demo. I would really have loved if they added more "meat" to the sports titles...like maybe a "season" mode for most of the sports or something.

I would hope they'd deliver a much better motion control experience. They've had three more years to work on theirs.

I agree with you here on the hardware and I think MotionPlus is a good step up, but I wasn't referring to the hardware. I was referring to the software, and Nintendo is the one with the huge head start there. And so far there just haven't been very many good uses of motion control on the Wii. Sure, it's an opinion, but I'm expecting better from Sony. At least the demo above is using a sword, lol.

Also, 3rd party support is much better outside of Nintendo consoles. I expect to see a lot of party games on the PSN that would be full $50 games on the Wii.

"Cheaply made." Do you mean "inexpensively" or "with shoddy materials"? Yes, the Wii console and Wii Remote are inexpensive to produce, but both components feel solid and have held up well after 3 years of frequent use.

They've held up pretty well. Don't forget that Nintendo ended up issuing those rubber harnesses and new wrist straps because the old wrist straps. I do typically differentiate between "cheap" and "inexpensive", but in this instance I would use them interchangeably, since while they are inexpensive to manufacture, they certainly aren't to buy.

"Gouging accessories." Are the accessories you mention first-party or third-party? You can blame Nintendo for selling the Zapper (which is essentially a plastic shell for a Remote and Nunchuk) for $20 USD. I don't know how much the Wii Wheel (again, a plastic shell for an existing controller) costs on its own, but it was packaged with Mario Kart Wii for no additional cost (i.e. the game still cost $50 USD at launch).

$70 for a WiiMote with motion plus & nunchuck. If you really want to use it as a "party system" with four controllers, you're looking at over $500 bucks. $80 per wiimote/nunchuck if you owned the controller already and bought attachment. $80 for the balance board (which most people barely used). $200 for the system which is basically gamecube hardware. Nintendo is the current king of the nickel and dime...and people are buying up games and components they don't even use. It's like mind control, lol. I want to get Fit+ and I barely played the first Fit...and I don't even know why! Oh, and don't forget $20 for classic controllers that you have to plug into the Wiimote.

I don't know about $20 for the zapper is a good deal, but I have actually heard the Link "game" with it is very fun and makes it works the money.

Really, it just offends the sensibilities paying the same price for 10 year old hardware as you could pay for a 360 or PS3.

This also goes for the software, though. How often do you see Wii game prices drop? Sure there are exceptions. I recently ordered DQ: Swords for $10, and A Boy and his Blob for $13. But take a look at Nintendo-published games...Super Paper Mario and Twilight Princess came out 3 years ago, and are still $49.99. I can't even bring myself to look in the "bargain" bins anymore, there's nothing but shovelware. New 360/PS3 games are $59.99 MSRP, but considering they often drop to $39.99 in a month and $20-30 soon after. So, the irony is that with my gaming/buying habits...my "paystation" has had a lower cost of ownership per game...and I have a $600 60GB model. Maybe they don't have sales because they don't need to, but I really don't care. I only care about how it hits the wallet to get each game.

Also, I'm not sure if you've done a comparison on what it would cost to buy every game in the Virtual Console that you get in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection...but it's silly.

"They tell the gamer how they're 'supposed' to game." Huh? What does that even mean? I can't make sense of that line.

Mostly what you mentioned...it comes down to leaving things out and telling people they don't need them. Everything that the Wii isn't because Nintendo can't do it, it's because they choose not to.

I don't blame them for the weak hardware specs by themselves. I'm very glad they did something different there and it had mass appeal. Their initial success is well-deserved. I think that while the Wii is not my favorite console, it has probably done more for gaming than the other two this generation. We just haven't received the benefits yet.

As for motion controls being "10 years old," what are you basing this on? If you mean prototypes, then maybe so. But again, we're not talking about prototypes. We're talking about hardware realized on a massive scale. Again, Nintendo tried something different--focus on controls rather than graphic processing power--and it paid off.

Sorry, I stand corrected. 25 year old hardware, at least in the gaming world.
http://classicgames.about.com/od/consoleandhandheldgames/p/LeStickProfile.htm

Did it take off? No...you've probably never even heard of it. Nintendo did it at the right time and made it work, which is great. But when I hear people and Nintendo scream "innovation", it reminds me of a certain other group of technology fans.

There are a number of other points I could bring up: Price comparison of launch consoles (Wii's $250 price tag as opposed to the PS3's $500 and $600 options), a list of very promising Wii titles due out before Q3 2010, the fact that the Wii wasn't designed to compete directly against the 360 or PS3, people blaming Nintendo for third parties churning out lazy ports and shovelware and stubbornly refusing to adapt to a new design concept, and so on.

I agree these are large factors in the Wii's success (and the PS3's lack there of). I believe that for most gamers, the $300 PS3 Slim has a lower cost of ownership (although very close) than a $200 Wii if you look at it "per game". If you factor in gametime, this will tip even more in favor of a PS3 (or 360). Obviously the 360 is much more expensive for most people.

And since people are slow to catch on, they still think of the PS3 as the most expensive.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't mean to add another novel, but I suppose I will add that as I said above, I agree completely that the Wii has been great for gaming. You playing Mario Kart with the parents is great. I know old people at work who play Wii sports. This is effectively expanding the number of people interested in my favorite hobby.

Sony (and MS if Natal works as advertised) are expanding on that. It's not just "having" motion control. Did you watch the PS Move demo that just came out? It looks exactly like a Wii commercial, and it's clear they are gunning for that audience. If I were a betting man, I would bet that ModNation Racers will include motion control...and they'll be following suit with a lot more.

Competition is (almost) always good for the consumer. As you stated, Nintendo hasn't had any up to this point. Now the gloves are coming off. So, I think that the move will be good for PS3 and Wii owners, alike.

Bah, curse you Joshinator! Clever troll!

 

[RyanB]

move is limited to two players.

Well, yes and no. It's limited to four devices, so two people with controller/sub-controller, or four controllers. A lot of people seem think think it has to do with bluetooth addressing, I'd guess the limitation is in the eye.

Seeing as how Sony has confirmed this before launch, though, I wouldn't expect the limitation to go away anytime soon.

 

[Tek7]

I agree completely that the Wii has been great for gaming. You playing Mario Kart with the parents is great. I know old people at work who play Wii sports. This is effectively expanding the number of people interested in my favorite hobby.

Something we can agree on.

Every console this generation has its advantages and disadvantages.

I'll leave it at that, if only because I'm a tad embarrassed that I spent 30-45 minutes typing out a novel of a post when I previously implied that I would leave the thread alone.

 

[Keero]

Oh yeah?

Dreamcast has mind-blowing graphics, never before seen online functions, a unique library and it has Sonic in THREE DEE.

/thread

 

[RyanB]

Something we can agree on.

Every console this generation has its advantages and disadvantages.

I'll leave it at that, if only because I'm a tad embarrassed that I spent 30-45 minutes typing out a novel of a post when I previously implied that I would leave the thread alone.

You and me both, buddy. :: hangs head in shame ::

Oh yeah?

Dreamcast has mind-blowing graphics, never before seen online functions, a unique library and it has Sonic in THREE DEE.

/thread

QFT! Sega CD too!