The Perfection of Mary

[mrpopdrinker]

No I did not slap her face. Do you think she wants us to make a idol out of her?! No she doesent. It is her son who saves me and asks of my service not Mary.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,6:20)]

Quote[/b] ]the Prots are in a double bind.  By renouncing the Catholic Saints and Divine Revelation -- which was most inconvenient to their own doctrines

Well yes we have renounced those. As we are all saints. However we never renounce nor will we renounce divine revelation. Kenneth Hagin himself said he had visions. Not that it is his visions that make me believe.  

Quote[/b] ]It presents Paul as a murderous and contemptible liar.  Paul's letters are a confession to the same.  the trick is to forget for a moment that Paul is Worshipped as a Deity.

No Paul is not worshipped as deity. Yes Paul was at first a murderer. But then he was converted and his name changed from Saul to Paul.

To say that you are all saints is probably the insult against the Holy Spirit. The True Saints of the Catholic Church were Christ Like paragons of Spirituality -- they're Miracles not so much equaled those of Christ but excelled them. And you have the Pride to say that you are their equal.

Not only were they on the par of Christ in their Miracles, but also in their penances. Christ fasted once for 40 days. Saint Joseph of Copertino would do seven 40 days fasts each year -- he spent more days not eating then eating. 100 Catholic Saints have born the Stigmata -- the Five Wounds of Christ -- open bleeding wounds -- for years. And since Christ did not eat or drink on the cross -- these Stigmatics would go without food or drink, miraculously, since they would not eat or drink for years on end. And you claim you are equal to that.

Well, get real. Hold yourself up next to any Atheist and tell me what exactly the Holy Spirit has given you that the Atheist also doesn't have. The Atheist will look both ways before crossing the street. The Atheist will love his or her baby. The Atheist will have some natural morality -- and perhaps more than you, since the Atheist wasn't instructed by Paul to think that Morality would be only a boastful insult against God, and Good Works be held as a debt against him. In short, if a Protestant is a Saint, then who, really, isn't? No, we know what a Saint is. A Saint has all the Powers of Christ and the Graces bestowed by Our Lady. No Protestant is a Saint, or ever will be.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

I have no faith in your saints Leo. Jacinta was a little girl who was possesed by a demon, so how can I have faith in the others? I am redeemed and anointed just like any believer is. There is no point in arguing this point as you hate Paul.

Quote[/b] ]Not only were they on the par of Christ in their Miracles, but also in their penances

Thats one of my points. Your penence which is really masochism is not of God. Yeshua paid the penalty for our sins we do not need to nor can we save ourselves. Hey Kenneth Hagin received devine revelation why dont you convert? Or was it a demon he seen because he wasent catholic? Leo you should look at this link. http://christsbride-min.org/Cbm%20-%20what%20is%20truth-marianism.htm

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,9:12)]No I did not slap her face. Do you think she wants us to make a idol out of her?! No she doesent. It is her son who saves me and asks of my service not Mary.

She is Queen of Heaven! She expects your obedience.

Protestants are conditioned to believing that nothing is expected of them. This is simply not true.

Read your Bible. Rev 12. Our Lady is to conduct a Campaign against Satan in the End Times. She needs our Prayers and our penances to be concecrated to Her so that She may have the Spiritual Capital to succeed.

Also, read John. Christ gave THE DISCIPLE HE LOVED the care of His Mother, and He Gave him to the care of His Mother. It is a narrow and bigoted interpretation to suppose that your only relationship to the Mother of God can be one of idolatry. Christ giving you His Mother, makes you His Brother. Is the Mother Son Relationship really idolatry? Do you have to put an evil spin on everything? Well, yes, that is what Protestants do -- that is what makes them Satanic. As Our Catholic Seers say -- the only consolation that comes to Protestants is from Satan. The only time you Protestants get a warm and fuzzy feeling is when you insult or despise something truely Sacred. So, yeah, didn't you feel just great when you told Jesus he could shove his offer and that his mother could take care of herself. His mother may be good as far as mothers go, but you certainly wouldn't want to be suspected of idoltry on her account. And then Satan patted you on the head and gave you a good congratulating slap on the back -- "good demon, my boy!"

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]She is Queen of Heaven! She expects your obedience.

Still waiting on scripture for that one. Sorry but Yeshua is King of kings and Lord of lords I think I will obey him.

Quote[/b] ]Protestants are conditioned to believing that nothing is expected of them. This is simply not true.

Hey look you corrected yourself! Correct we know things are expected of us.

Quote[/b] ]Read your Bible. Rev 12. Our Lady is to conduct a Campaign against Satan in the End Times. She needs our Prayers and our penances to be concecrated to Her so that She may have the Spiritual Capital to succeed.

That was about Yeshua's birth and has already happend.

Quote[/b] ]It is a narrow and bigoted interpretation to suppose that your only relationship to the Mother of God can be one of idolatry

She is my sister the is my relationship with her.

Quote[/b] ]Do you have to put an evil spin on everything? Well, yes, that is what Protestants do -- that is what makes them Satanic.

More false accuisations.

Quote[/b] ]So, yeah, didn't you feel just great when you told Jesus he could shove his offer and that his mother could take care of herself.

I have accepted his offer. Do you not know that his mother is in the third heaven and does not need our care?

Quote[/b] ]And then Satan patted you on the head and gave you a good congratulating slap on the back -- "good demon, my boy!"

Satan is not in me or near me. Again stop with the false accuisations.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (4t0p @ Nov. 08 2003,6:27)]

Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Nov. 07 2003,11:16)]Honesty!  Are you really going along with this ploy of the Bishops to pretend that they are Infallible too?  It was ridiculous enough for a Pope to claim infallibility, but for the council of fat cats, infiltrated to the brim with Free Masons, for them to claim the Necessary Inspiration of the Holy Spirit -- that would be the 'insult against the Holy Spirit' if ever there was one.

Look at where such arguments lead.  First the Pope claims infallibility through the Holy Spirit.  Then the Bishops.  What stops the rest of us?  But ask yourself, WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Research your Church papal infallibility has only been invoked twice in nearly 2000 years ... (1) Jesus being the only Son of God was both Human and divine and being One with the Holy Spirit and God the Father devises the Holy Trinity ~ (2) I don't remember two off the top of my head but I'll try to find it at some point this weekend


Find a Christian who will argue against #1 Leo, infallibility is not an on going thing, everything that the Bishop of Rome says is NOT neccesarily the Word of God given to us through men, that is not what the infallibility doctrine states, kthnx ;D

Dear 4top,

Yes, I know that infallibility is supposed to be used in a limited manner. But I recently read a "How to be a Catholic book" for a correspondance course, written by some American Priest. He actually comes out and says that it is 'the opinion' of the Bishops that the Doctrine of Infallibility also covers Episcopal Councils. I'm not kidding. They actually want to suppose that their political cavils -- their pedophile coverups -- should be covered by Infallibility. What audacity! It is not so much a question of whether they would ever be wrong, but of whether they would ever be right. It has only been the ever recurrent Apparitions of Our Lady which has kept the Laity and the Confraternities of the Catholic Church on track. But what have the Bishops done. They gave recognition to the separate Gentile Church of the Antichrist Paul, and then at Nicea canonized the Scriptures of the Antichrist. Great job! Fat Cats! Then we have the History of the Episcopal Seats being bought and sold. It was the Worldliness of Bishops which provoked nearly every Anti-Catholic Heresy -- when have Bishops not been a more of a liability to the Church than anything else. Look at the Pedophile Scandals -- what roles did the Bishops play except to make everything worse?

As I said before -- Our Lady is ever requesting the Laity to pray for the Clergy and never the other way around. This says alot. The Laity is okay -- its the Clergy that has the problem.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,9:39)]

Quote[/b] ]She is Queen of Heaven!  She expects your obedience.

Still waiting on scripture for that one. Sorry but Yeshua is King of kings and Lord of lords I think I will obey him.

Quote[/b] ]Protestants are conditioned to believing that nothing is expected of them.  This is simply not true.

Hey look you corrected yourself! Correct we know things are expected of us.  

Quote[/b] ]Read your Bible.  Rev 12.  Our Lady is to conduct a Campaign against Satan in the End Times.  She needs our Prayers and our penances to be concecrated to Her so that She may have the Spiritual Capital to succeed.

That was about Yeshua's birth and has already happend.

Quote[/b] ]It is a narrow and bigoted interpretation to suppose that your only relationship to the Mother of God can be one of idolatry

She is my sister the is my relationship with her.

Quote[/b] ]Do you have to put an evil spin on everything?  Well, yes, that is what Protestants do -- that is what makes them Satanic.

More false accuisations.

Quote[/b] ]So, yeah, didn't you feel just great when you told Jesus he could shove his offer and that his mother could take care of herself.

I have accepted his offer. Do you not know that his mother is in the third heaven and does not need our care?

Quote[/b] ]And then Satan patted you on the head and gave you a good congratulating slap on the back -- "good demon, my boy!"

Satan is not in me or near me. Again stop with the false accuisations.

No, that is a game you Prots play with each other.

The Word of God is The Teachings of the Church. You accepted the Bible which the Catholic Church published in the third Century, but you somehow reject The Teaching that was also current in the Third Century. The Printing Press was not to be invented for another 1200 years. All the Important Stuff was orally transmitted. The Bible, if you will notice, was slammed shut before even the first generation of Apostles had entirely died. There is only one book of some 20 pages which discusses the Early Christian Church -- and you think that is somehow enough. The Reason Satan has you demand Biblical Verses for everything, is that Satan smuggly knows that they do not exist.

but the Church Teachings do, and on the Day of Judgement you will not be able to tell Christ that you were willing to live by the Catholic Written Word, but to insult and defy the Catholic Spoken Word. You will be asked to explain why one was THE WORD OF GOD and not the other. You will not be able to.... at least not now that the difficulty has been carefully explained to you. You can no longer plead ignorance. Now your only excuse would be a sad lack of capacity.

 

[Guest]

Messeur,

What is it with you Prots. Your Satanic pride knows no limits. It must be true that Satan give you a feeling of conterfeit spiritual consolation whenever you show contempt for the truely Holy. You say that Mary is your Sister. You even have Gospel Scripture which tells you that She is assigned by Christ to be your Mother. This makes the Commandment binding which says that you must Honor your Mother. But you just blow that off and say that The Mother of God -- THE MOTHER OF GOD -- is not good enough to be YOUR mother. Just your sister.

Now, how are you going to explain this overweening Pride to Christ on the Day of Judgment -- that His Mother wasn't good enough for you. you honestly don't expect a chance do you? It is like you people are actually doing your best and utmost to qualify for Hell.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]The Printing Press was not to be invented for another 1200 years.  All the Important Stuff was orally transmitted.  

Now I see! The things that dident matter were spoken. With the things that dident matter written in the Bible. Very smart you catholics are!

Quote[/b] ]The Word of God is The Teachings of the Church

I never really cared for man made doctrine. I will not serve God if he believes what you believe anyway. He let the Jews sacrifice lambs. But after the saviour came and sacrificed himself we have to slowly kill and masocate ourselves? No thank you thats not the way it works. So the son goes through all this pain and agony only for his mother to be worshipped and obeyed. No I dont think it works like that either. If it does then God is truly a fool however it does not work like that. I am curious about of somthing though. It is ok for 4top to follow false bishops knowingly because he does so out of obeidience. But we cannot walk in accordence with what is written in the Bible out of obeidience and still be counted on in heaven? I think you have a little bit of favoritism for catholics both vatical 1 and 2. Leo I am open to correction. If I am wrong correct me with the Bible and I will accept it. If it says she is my spiritual mother then she is. However I see no such passage.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,10:07)]

Quote[/b] ]The Printing Press was not to be invented for another 1200 years.  All the Important Stuff was orally transmitted.  

Now I see! The things that dident matter were spoken. With the things that dident matter written in the Bible. Very smart you catholics are!

Quote[/b] ]The Word of God is The Teachings of the Church

I never really cared for man made doctrine. I will not serve God if he believes what you believe anyway. He let the Jews sacrifice lambs. But after the saviour came and sacrificed himself we have to slowly kill and masocate ourselves? No thank you thats not the way it works. So the son goes through all this pain and agony only for his mother to be worshipped and obeyed. No I dont think it works like that either. If it does then God is truly a fool however it does not work like that. I am curious about of somthing though. It is ok for 4top to follow false bishops knowingly because he does so out of obeidience. But we cannot walk in accordence with what is written in the Bible out of obeidience and still be counted on in heaven? I think you have a little bit of favoritism for catholics both vatical 1 and 2. Leo I am open to correction. If I am wrong correct me with the Bible and I will accept it. If it says she is my spiritual mother then she is. However I see no such passage.

Messeur,

Try to have some good will and listen to an argument that makes sense. You think you can suppose that everything important was written down and that only the unimportant things were passed in Oral Transmission. That is a Modern Assumption. The Apostles and Disciples did not teach with Printed Handouts -- everything IMPORTANT would necessarily be spoken. The written stuff would be items used so infrequently that if they were not written they would have been forgotten. this stands your intuition on ist head.

Again, let me repeat. The only book the Scripture has of the Early Church is only twenty some pages, and half of it discusses Paul's campaign to divide the Early Church. There are newspaper articles bigger then that. it should be obvious that absolutely no attempt was made to detail all the important teachings and doctrines. Look at the Book of Acts -- it is anecdotal and details only events -- not teachings. The existence letters of the Real Apostles -- John, Peter and James -- were short letters which addressed only one doctrinal point (they were actually written to defend the Christian Doctrine of Righteousness against the Paulian Doctrines of Faith Alone). No Catalog of Teachings was ever written down. But from the letters of the Early Church Fathers, we know what the Church Teachings were.

Again, you recognize the Written Word of the Catholic Church, but not the Spoken Word. Satan will understand on the Day of Judgment, and LAUGH like you just told another funny joke. But Christ will suppose that you found it very convenient to ignore the greater part of your duty simply because you could find an excuse.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

I hate to sound like a atheist but I have no proof of oral words nor do I have proof of this 20 page letter. In the end I must rely on God for descernment. Now where does the gospel say Mary is my mother?

Quote[/b] ]I am curious about of somthing though. It is ok for 4top to follow false bishops knowingly because he does so out of obeidience. But we cannot walk in accordence with what is written in the Bible out of obeidience and still be counted on in heaven? I think you have a little bit of favoritism for catholics both vatican 1 and 2.

I still want a reply to this. I do understand what you meen now why the unimportant stuff was written. Although I find it hard to believe. I am pretty sure the message of Yeshua and his sinless death was preached very heavily.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,10:07)]

Quote[/b] ]The Printing Press was not to be invented for another 1200 years.  All the Important Stuff was orally transmitted.  

Now I see! The things that dident matter were spoken. With the things that dident matter written in the Bible. Very smart you catholics are!

Quote[/b] ]The Word of God is The Teachings of the Church

I never really cared for man made doctrine. I will not serve God if he believes what you believe anyway. He let the Jews sacrifice lambs. But after the saviour came and sacrificed himself we have to slowly kill and masocate ourselves? No thank you thats not the way it works. So the son goes through all this pain and agony only for his mother to be worshipped and obeyed. No I dont think it works like that either. If it does then God is truly a fool however it does not work like that. I am curious about of somthing though. It is ok for 4top to follow false bishops knowingly because he does so out of obeidience. But we cannot walk in accordence with what is written in the Bible out of obeidience and still be counted on in heaven? I think you have a little bit of favoritism for catholics both vatical 1 and 2. Leo I am open to correction. If I am wrong correct me with the Bible and I will accept it. If it says she is my spiritual mother then she is. However I see no such passage.

Messeur,

Look at your second paragraph. You think Christ died on the Cross so that He could upstage His Mother. You think Christ would resent His own Mother.

You even Judge God. You pick and choose what you will believe entirely on a willful and personal aesthetic criteria.

I should wait and see if you can summon your energies and say anything sincere, and well thought out. I can no longer believe that you are quite in earnest. What you say is simply unnatural. It assigns a vindictive pettiness to Our Lord, and you pretend that you yourself are above God, let alone Our Lady. Obviously you are rambling on without even listening to yourself. Be more careful in what you say, and we'll talk somemore.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,10:32)]I hate to sound like a atheist but I have no proof of oral words nor do I have proof of this 20 page letter. In the end I must rely on God for descernment. Now where does the gospel say Mary is my mother?

Quote[/b] ]I am curious about of somthing though. It is ok for 4top to follow false bishops knowingly because he does so out of obeidience. But we cannot walk in accordence with what is written in the Bible out of obeidience and still be counted on in heaven? I think you have a little bit of favoritism for catholics both vatican 1 and 2.

I still want a reply to this. I do understand what you meen now why the unimportant stuff was written. Although I find it hard to believe. I am pretty sure the message of Yeshua and his sinless death was preached very heavily.

Messeur,

You do have proof of the "Twenty Page Letter" -- it is the Book of Acts. It comes right after Luke and before the letter of Paul in the New Testament.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]You think Christ died on the Cross so that He could upstage His Mother.

So you really do think Mary is the Messiah then? So it wasent that her son was the messiah it was that she gave birth while a virgen. Now I believe I see were you are coming from. Of course what I say is unnatural. I operate in the spirit.

Quote[/b] ]You think Christ would resent His own Mother

More lies.

Quote[/b] ]You even Judge God.  You pick and choose what you will believe entirely on a willful and personal aesthetic criteria.  

Again more lies.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]You do have proof of the "Twenty Page Letter" -- it is the Book of Acts. It comes right after Luke and before the letter of Paul in the New Testament.

Please give me the verses that speak of this. In the begining of the Book he was a murderer. But then her converted.

 

[Avesther]

Why do you insist on calling Mary, Queen of Heaven?  I also find it interesting that you sub-titled this thread, yes it is worship.

Interesting article.

Seems, Queen of Heaven is a very old term, used by Pagans.  Especially in reference to a Goddess:  The great goddess of Babylonia, Virgin Mother of Babylon.

Searching further, I find numerous references to a Goddess named Mary, with the title Queen of Heaven, in Pagan circles.

I've also found many new world movements cite worshiping the Goddess Mary, Queen of Heaven.

There seems to be a massive dose of paganism in this worshiping of Mary.

So, is it that Paganism borrowed from the Catholics?  Or is it the Catholics that borrowed from Pagans?

 

[LionOfJudah]

Leo for hating paul so much you sure use his own termology alot, Jesus the New adam. that is in romans....

 

[Big J]

Thanks to everybody who answered my questions.
Leo, the discourse on Freemasonry was very interesting. Thanks.
and...4top...I misstated something...the question should have been "perpetual virgin." You answered anyway, so...heh.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,10:32)]I hate to sound like a atheist but I have no proof of oral words nor do I have proof of this 20 page letter.

20 pp leter = Acts.

 

[Guest]

Interesting to see what the Spritually defeated do when they could not educate me in a single thing AND PROVE THE KNOW WHAT OF THEY SPEAK.
i suppose they might have been profited more so by leaving together for a time an going FISHING. AMEN
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN