The New Question and Answer Thread

Ok heres how this work. If You Have AQuestion About the Bible Then Post it and i will answer it(if i know the answer) and if i dont then i will find some onewho does and search the word for one. no question is to dumb or complex so post them and ill anwser them as i can
God Bless,
Cam
 

David's Sling

New Member
We'll start with a hard one (you can handle it)

"Can you reject your salvation?"

I have found evidence in the scriptures (the epistles, mostly) that supports both sides.

IMPORTANT: you CANNOT "lose" your salvation. It is not dependent on works, and nothing you or anyone else does will cause your salvation to be lost. You cannot go around thinking you are saved (having accepted Jesus' sacrifice for your sins, and inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart) and then find out after you die that you messed up and lost it somewhere along the way. (The assurance of one's salvation is very clear in the scriptures)

The question here is, by conscious action and consent, can you reject salvation after you have already accepted it. Essentially, can you turn your back on God and "kick out" the Holy Spirit after you have invited him in, or will God drag you into heaven anyway?

Fire away!
 

KajiSama

New Member
If I can be so bold to answer from my understanding, I would say simply no.

Since salvation is a gift and only occurs by the grace and power of God renewing us to right relationship with him, it cannot be resisted or renounced (if it was truly received). While the gospel call or message can be rejected, the Effectual Call to salvation cannot. Without the effectual call toward salvation none would be able to accept Christ.

In other words, the Effectual Call is an act of God (“the Father” , “in large measure the Holy Spirit’s work of illumination” ; “by the Word and Spirit” ), speaking through the human proclamation of the gospel, in which He summons people to Himself in such a way that they do indeed (and irresistibly) respond (but willingly) in saving faith.

Efficacious or Special Grace is Irresistible and Instantaneous; it operates by working upon the “heart” (the intellect, emotions and will of a person) in such a way that “it makes a man perfectly willing (and able) to accept Jesus Christ unto salvation and (willing and able) to yield obedience to the will of God.” In other words, it is “a work of God empowering the human will and inclining the human heart to faith in Christ.”

Biblical Basis: Note: ( ) indicates the need for effectual calling and efficacious grace.
John 6:44 (John 6:44)
Acts 2:39
Romans 1:1, 6-7; (8:7); 8:28-30
1 Corinthians 1:1-2, 9; 22-24, 26; (2:14); 7:15
Galatians 1: 15; 5:13
Ephesians 1:18; (2:1-2); 4:1, 4
Colossians 3:15
1 Thessalonians 2:12; 4:7
1 Timothy 6:12
2 Timothy 1:9
1 Peter 2:9-10, 20-21; 3:9; 5:10
2 Peter 1:3

You may be asking your self: "Where does the presentation of the Gospel message come into this picture?" That is, that if salvation comes only by the power of God, then what is the need for the preaching of the Gospel to the unsaved? The answer is that the Effectual call to salvation uses His ordained “means,” namely, preaching His Word to accomplish this task (Romans 10:10+17).

It is also important to note that the Effectual Call is not an overriding of the mind, the inclinations of the heart or the motions of the will but an opening of the mind, a re-inclining of the heart, and a “wooing” of the will (John 6:44; 1 John 4:19).

To review, it is not possible for you to genuinely reject salvation after you have been truly saved. This is not to say that you will not experience times of hardship, sin or frustration, but that Salvation is a work of God and is maintained by God. You have been set free from the bondage of sin and a sinful life but as we all can attest to, Christians still sin.

I think I got a little side tracked here, but what I want to point out is that your question is slightly paradoxical. If your heart has been renewed (not by your own power but by God), you would not want to or be able to reject the truth which you now know and love.

I hope that helped at least a bit. ^_^
 

David's Sling

New Member
It does, in part. Thank you.

This was mostly a question about some of my friends who have turned away. I find it very hard to simply think that they were never saved. I have seen them strive for the glory of God, speaking of His power. THey truly had a heart for God. Through varying circumstances, however, they seem to have lost that desire. This leads me to wonder, are the still saved? Are they still "Christians", even though they seem to have no desire for God anymore?

An interesting thing that a pastor brought to my attention was that the Holy Spirit indwells our hearts, and in many ways it is similar to demon possession. They can only come by invitation, though the invitation may not be a conscious one. Even though a person might not say, "Evil spirit, come live inside me," their choices or sinful lifestyles might be like an invitation to it. Likewise, person with no knowledge of the indwelling that takes place can still accept what Christ did for him, and the Spirit will come into the new christian all the same. This analogy troubles me slightly, as demons can be cast out of their hosts. Does this mean that the Holy Spirit can be "thrown out" of a person's heart if they consciously reject it? I do not know for sure, but what you have said does bring me some comfort.

I will also begin reading through Hebrews, as a friend of mine told me i might find some clues there.
 

KajiSama

New Member
I don't know if I completely understand what your pastor was saying. Was it that the Holy Spirit indwells believers in the same manner that demons can posses a person? Salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit go hand in hand with a conscious understanding of the gospel message and acceptance of it. You cannot really trust Christ for Salvation if you do not know what you are trusting in.

But along the lines of what you were saying about the people you knew to be believers who have turned away, I would comfort you with the assurance that believers have of salvation. That is a Divinely given confidence of the believer that he/she is truly saved.

This is an internal sense, given by God, that we are truly saved; based upon certain convictions and beliefs in combination with evidences and our own perseverance leading us to the conviction that we are saved.

Explanation:
1.The Witness of the Spirit, Romans 8:16; Galatians 4:6.

2.The Signs if New life:

a. fellowship with God and His people 1 John 1:3
b. obedience 1 John 2:3
c. doing righteousness 1 John 2:29
d. love for God’s people 1 John 3:14
e. confessing Christ 1 John 4:15

It is possible for believers to sin, but it is a continual life style of sin without conscience that reveals someones true character. That is not to say that God may not have planned to still save your friends, but that as of now it doesn't sound like they are exhibiting the characteristics of one who has truly been redeemed.

Matt 7:15-23 is a good example of what may have taken place with your friends, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."

Even though it seems people were able to perform miracles or show some fruit in their actions, they were not truly redeemed.

The best advice I have for you is to keep praying for them, and talk to them about where you see their life going. Even if they push you away, keep praying. Its hard. I know. I have experienced this with my own family.
 
so since kajisama decided to answer my question..... he was some wat right but then again no. u can lose you salvation but not cause god takes it form u. u give it up for something else. ie no sin in heaven in other words if u get saved and sin u have to repent or else hell. i dont have time to get in to scripture but if u want me to go to more detail i can later but. as i said u gots any other questions post and i will answer.
however u can lose it and when u sin u need to ask for forgiveness, that is the facts.

God Bless,
Cam
 

KajiSama

New Member
Sorry about answering ahead of you. I wasn't sure of the rules involved. But since you have posted and in a position opposed to what I have thought to be true, maybe you could explain and support when you get a chance. ^_^

Something that kinda scares me about the idea of condemnation due to unrepentant sin (even after trusting in Christ and regeneration) is the thought that I may think a lustful or covetous thought in my last moments just before I die and not be able to repent of it (say I get hit by a car). Would I then go to hell? Even if I had trusted in Christ for salvation and repented and turned from any sin before?

From what I understand salvation is a gift and a work of God, not that we could take away from or undo what he has done.

BTW, thanks for genuinely caring for the spiritual growth and wellbeing of the guild. And taking the time and energy to help people grow. ^_~
 
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Kyrel Ruth

New Member
We'll start with a hard one (you can handle it)

"Can you reject your salvation?"

I have found evidence in the scriptures (the epistles, mostly) that supports both sides.

IMPORTANT: you CANNOT "lose" your salvation. It is not dependent on works, and nothing you or anyone else does will cause your salvation to be lost. You cannot go around thinking you are saved (having accepted Jesus' sacrifice for your sins, and inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart) and then find out after you die that you messed up and lost it somewhere along the way. (The assurance of one's salvation is very clear in the scriptures)

The question here is, by conscious action and consent, can you reject salvation after you have already accepted it. Essentially, can you turn your back on God and "kick out" the Holy Spirit after you have invited him in, or will God drag you into heaven anyway?

Fire away!
I found a good answer to your question :)

And I quote in it's entirety:

Can the Regenerate Be Erased from the Book of Life?
Meditation on Revelation 3:5
Download:

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By John Piper December 22, 2006


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Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

The end of the year is at hand. Endings cause us to ponder endurance. We made it to another new year (almost). Will we make it to another? More important: Will we endure, as Jesus says, to the end and so be saved (Mark 13:13)? Perseverance is a precious promise and gift. It is not without struggle. But we struggle as victors. So I would like to encourage you here at year's end to fight the good fight again, and to be deeply confident that God will not erase your name from the book of life.

* * *

The precious Biblical truth that the saints will persevere in faith to the end and be saved is relentlessly opposed, generation after generation. Nevertheless the truth endures, resting firmly on the sovereign faithfulness of God to complete the salvation of his elect. He planned it in eternity, purchased it in Christ's death on the cross, and is applying it through the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:30 says, "[Those] whom he justified, these he also glorified." In other words, between the event of justification by faith at the beginning of our Christian life, and the event of glorification at the resurrection of our bodies (Philippians 3:21), there will be no dropouts, bailouts or pushouts. "Those whom he justified, he also glorified" – all of them. God will keep and sanctify those whom he has justified and make sure they keep the faith and endure to the end and are saved.

1 John 2:19 describes how we should understand the apparent dropouts: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out,in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." In other words, the failure to persevere is not a sign that you can be truly born again and justified and then be lost. Rather the failure to persevere is a sign that you were never truly part of the regenerate people of God. That's the explicit point of 1 John 2:19.

Nevertheless, there are texts that have persuaded some to reject this teaching. The one I consider here is Revelation 3:5 where the Lord Jesus says, "He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."

Some say this is a fool-proof text against the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. They assume that when Revelation 3:5 says God will not erase a person's name from the book of life, it implies that he does erase some from the book of life, and that these are people who were once justified and then later were condemned. But is that a true assumption?

The promise "I will not erase his name from the book of life," does not necessarily imply that some do have their names erased. It simply says to the one who is in the book and who conquers in faith: I will never wipe out your name. In other words, being erased is a fearful prospect which I will not allow to happen. I will keep you safe in the book. That is one of the promises made to those who persevere and conquer. It does not say that those who fail to conquer and fall away from Christ were written in the book and got erased.

In fact, there are two other verses in Revelation that seem to teach that to have your name written in the book means that you will most definitely persevere and conquer. Consider Revelation 13:8. "And all who dwell on the earth will worship [the beast], everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain." This verse implies that those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from the foundation of the world" definitely will not worship the beast. In other words, having our name in the book of life from the foundation of the world seems to mean that God will keep you from falling and grant you to persevere in allegiance to God. Being in the book means you will not apostatize.

Similarly consider Revelation 17:8, "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel, when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come." Again having one's name written in the book of life from the foundation of the world appears to secure one from "marveling" at the beast. Those whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel. If your name is written there, you will not marvel at the beast.

The teaching here is that having one's name written in the book is effectual. That is, it has a defining effect on one's responses. To have your name written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world guarantees that you will not worship or marvel at the beast. John does not say, "If you worship the beast, your name is erased." He says, "If your name is written, you will not worship the beast."

This fits with Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes . . . I will not erase his name from the book of life." The triumph required in 3:5 is guaranteed in 13:8 and 17:8. This is not a contradiction any more than for Paul to say, "Work out your salvation . . . for God is at work in you to will and to do his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). It is not nonsense to state the condition: if you conquer, God will not erase your name (3:5); and to state the assurance: if your name is written, you will conquer (13:8 and 17:8). God's "written-down-ones" really must conquer, and really will conquer. One side highlights our responsibility; the other highlights God's sovereignty.

The practical impact of this truth is not that we be cavalier about faith and love and holiness. There is necessary vigilance (Hebrews 3:12) and striving (Luke 13:24) and pursuit (Hebrews 12:14) in the Christian life. Rather, the impact is that we rest in the assurance that we are not left to ourselves in this "fight of faith." The God who called you is faithful to "confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:8). "Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring [your sanctification] to pass" (1 Thessalonians 5:24). He will complete the salvation he began (Philippians 1:6). We are kept by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5). Fight we must, for only those who persevere will be saved (Mark 13:13). And fight we will, because God is at work in us to will and to do his good pleasure (Hebrews 13:21).

(This article was originally written in 1997 and is published in Taste and See.)


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WooT!!!!

~Diana
 
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