He is, but the deal is different now. BEfore we would be judged by the law, but every last human besides Jesus if judged by the law would be found guilty. So, instead he made a new deal which was Belive that you are a sinner and belive that only through Jesus you can enter eternal life and if you belive God will reveal himself to and live inside of you. He is the same but he is operating differently so we have a chance at least now.
The nature of good and evil
- Thread starter Mr.Bill
- Start date
Dark Virtue
New Member
So everyone under the old law was pretty much screwed huh?
How many of them will be in Hell?
How many of them will be in Hell?
Alright, back to constructiveness.
Some of you believe that god created morallity. Thus, you believe that, were god out of the picture, nothing would be good or evil. Or in other terms, those things which god condones are 'good' and those which he does not are 'evil.'
But consider the following hypothetical situation. What if you, say, devote your entire life to feeding the hungry; relieving their suffering. And at the age of 70, you walk into the street and get hit by a truck. You die, and then you feel things begin to get hot. You start to hear moans of people crying out in agony. You awaken into a realm of torture and misery, and look around you and are confused, for this is not what you expected. You were a devout christian, you did good works throughout your life, so why has god forsaken you to hell? But then you see a large man sitting on a throne high up in sky, wearing a huge red cloak, and he looks down at you and says, "Behold, I am God." You are even more confused when you see that up there with him are Hitler and Stalin and a few serial killers, etc. You ask him why he has done this to you, as you have done what he asked. He replies that "No you haven't, I like suffering. You spent your whole life relieving suffering. When I said 'Blessed are the poor' I was just being sarcastic, and you were supposed to understand that."
Now, admitedly this circumstance is ridiculously far fetched, but my purpose in this is the following: Would you, in this position, change your opinion on what good and evil were, or would you say to god that he was the evil one. I think the former would be true, which proves that god cannot be the basis of good and evil; it is something else that decides what these are, independent of god or anyone else's opinion. Hence, my arguement for objective morallity comes into play..
Give it some thought; believe me, this is complicated.
Some of you believe that god created morallity. Thus, you believe that, were god out of the picture, nothing would be good or evil. Or in other terms, those things which god condones are 'good' and those which he does not are 'evil.'
But consider the following hypothetical situation. What if you, say, devote your entire life to feeding the hungry; relieving their suffering. And at the age of 70, you walk into the street and get hit by a truck. You die, and then you feel things begin to get hot. You start to hear moans of people crying out in agony. You awaken into a realm of torture and misery, and look around you and are confused, for this is not what you expected. You were a devout christian, you did good works throughout your life, so why has god forsaken you to hell? But then you see a large man sitting on a throne high up in sky, wearing a huge red cloak, and he looks down at you and says, "Behold, I am God." You are even more confused when you see that up there with him are Hitler and Stalin and a few serial killers, etc. You ask him why he has done this to you, as you have done what he asked. He replies that "No you haven't, I like suffering. You spent your whole life relieving suffering. When I said 'Blessed are the poor' I was just being sarcastic, and you were supposed to understand that."
Now, admitedly this circumstance is ridiculously far fetched, but my purpose in this is the following: Would you, in this position, change your opinion on what good and evil were, or would you say to god that he was the evil one. I think the former would be true, which proves that god cannot be the basis of good and evil; it is something else that decides what these are, independent of god or anyone else's opinion. Hence, my arguement for objective morallity comes into play..
Give it some thought; believe me, this is complicated.
I would probobly fight him and his morals... Maybe think of this situation. God is Good as we know him to be and all he wants is love and Justice, but one day He becomes as you have described and kills and destroys and all of that. Dont you think his Angels would all rebel against him? I think they will. I know I would... I guess If I never desired good I wouldnt care but like the Angels I desire love and peace.... So I would probobly If that happened to me presently, I would probobly rebel, and the Angels would probobly rebel as well. Of course we would all be destroyed but there is no way I would be OK with a God of suffering.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
angels dont really have much of a choice they where created to serve. You can bring up lucifer and his angels but that could be that the angels where ordered to follow him and he was given the choice to serve God or himself and he choose himself. we dont know that is another topic though.
As far as the people under the law Romans answers that, Christ death atoned for all sin, past present and future. it was not the law that saved man, but rather his heart condition. some even now still rejoice in the law and serve it gladly. God looks at the heart, not the outward jestures.
As far as the people under the law Romans answers that, Christ death atoned for all sin, past present and future. it was not the law that saved man, but rather his heart condition. some even now still rejoice in the law and serve it gladly. God looks at the heart, not the outward jestures.
I rather think the angels were created by God for Good... I wonder though. Did God give satan his own personal Angels? If not then they couldnt have been created only to serve, because if God created them to serve him then they couldnt have rebeled...
So Its either, God Created angels specifically to listen to Satan OR the ANgels are created with a strong desire to do good but also have a smal amount of free will allowing them to rebel... which is it?
So Its either, God Created angels specifically to listen to Satan OR the ANgels are created with a strong desire to do good but also have a smal amount of free will allowing them to rebel... which is it?
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
show me where angels have a choice.
you can take any animal that has a hiegharchy of leadership, you can divert one of the higher-ups (like some ants and bee's) and they will follow the leader. same thing with sheep. they will follow whatever leads them.
God is the shepard and is leading His "shee"(angels), when one of the ones near the front decides it sees greener pastures and walks that way, now the majority will continue to follow the shephard, but some will follow that one lone sheep.
you can take any animal that has a hiegharchy of leadership, you can divert one of the higher-ups (like some ants and bee's) and they will follow the leader. same thing with sheep. they will follow whatever leads them.
God is the shepard and is leading His "shee"(angels), when one of the ones near the front decides it sees greener pastures and walks that way, now the majority will continue to follow the shephard, but some will follow that one lone sheep.
Show you where the angels have a choice.... Did you not read what I said? Iw ill say it once again, READ it this time.
So Its either, God Created angels specifically to listen to Satan OR the ANgels are created with a strong desire to do good but also have a smal amount of free will allowing them to rebel... which is it?
WHich one!!!! PICK ONE!!!
So Its either, God Created angels specifically to listen to Satan OR the ANgels are created with a strong desire to do good but also have a smal amount of free will allowing them to rebel... which is it?
WHich one!!!! PICK ONE!!!
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
i pick neither, because neither is right. try actually doing some studing and then try to refute it.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
so angels have free will? but Man was the only creation with free will that was created..... nice circle you have Byblos
I dint say Angels have free will I was asking you! READ READ READ.
I asked!!! Do angels have free will and strong desire to do Good...
OR!!! NOTICE THE OR!!!!
DId God create ANgels to serve Satan!!!
IT has to be one or the other because if Angels have NO free will and were created only to server Gods then they couldnt have defied him!!
READ!!!
I asked!!! Do angels have free will and strong desire to do Good...
OR!!! NOTICE THE OR!!!!
DId God create ANgels to serve Satan!!!
IT has to be one or the other because if Angels have NO free will and were created only to server Gods then they couldnt have defied him!!
READ!!!
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
God created the angels.
He did not create them to serve satan. like the sheep they where following orders and went the wrong way.
He did not create them to serve satan. like the sheep they where following orders and went the wrong way.
Jim
New Member
If this is going to develop into a discussion (or argument) on the implications of freewill, I have started a new thread for it. I think Mr Bill is getting peeved at his thread going off at tangents.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
Let me do what I do best and make it MORE complicated
I have asserted that Morality is flexible, fluid, but this is in contrast to God's view of morality. God after all, is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Or is He? There are many instances of God changing His mind in the Bible. God ruled with a heavy hand in the OT yet is virtually non existent in the NT. Does God's definition of morality change? Do you think it changed during the course of the Bible?