The nature of good and evil

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It all comes down to one thing. Faith. If any of these subjects could be proven either way then we wouldnt argue, its would be like arguing if Fire is hot, of course it is! But there is no solid proof for or against any of these things, Its Faith. And Faitth turns into knowing. If you belive these things to be true God will make sure you know they are true, but if you continue like you are arguing everything we say and sreaching for proofs of things that cannot be proven then God will stay unkown to you. Its your choice, Known the truth or keep bothering people because they cannot prove it to you.
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You are trying to create a logical argument based on everything BUT logic.

Faith is not a logic proof for anything. Faith is devoid of reason and evidence. You can't use Faith as the logical basis for your reasoning.
 
Admitting that bibles are legal in china has nothing to do with this topic. Everything I say has a basis, its called faith and is something you may never understand simply because you choose not to.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 27 2004,1:30)]Admitting that bibles are legal in china has nothing to do with this topic. Everything I say has a basis, its called faith and is something you may never understand simply because you choose not to.
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It has everything to do with you as a poster, because you are living under delusions.

You believed that Bibles were illegal in China and I have proven to you that you were incorrect.

If everything you say has a basis, then what was your basis for claiming that bibles in China were illegal?
 
dark virtue, these millions have the same belifs as I. And you are accusing US as being delisional. Because NONE of us can prove these things to you because its based on FAITH.
 
That is a topic for another day Byblos. As I have stated REPEATEDLY, I am pointing my finger directly at YOU.

I can't state my point any different.

Now, are you going to continue on this tirade or are you actually going to participate in the topic?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 27 2004,1:31)]Faith is devoid of reason or evidence. And truth is devoid of reason and evidence. And that is how it is.
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But how do you go about acertaining what 'truth' is? What you are implying is a paradox, for faith is your vehicle for defining what truth is, and yet some logic has to go into that decision. How do you decide what to believe in?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 27 2004,12:41)]MR Bill there is only one God and one truth and one day you will meet him one way or the other.

A link? A link to what? EMail the chinese chapels and see what they say.
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I believe that there is one truth, but I don't think it comes from a god. My question is a very good one Byblos, and I think you should answer it. How is it that you are so sure you are right?
 
Alright, to get this thread kindof back on track and away from Chinese nonsense...

DV, you said that you believe that morallity is subjective/relative, that it depends on the person or on the culture. But if this is true, then isn't morallity merely a fabrication? If morallity is subjective, then do good and evil really exist? I am now leaning toward an objective morallity, but that is not to say that I disagree with you. I think we are in a sense saying the same thing, but for different reasons. People can believe different things, but I propose that that is merely because they have different interperetations for the same set of morals.
 
I think that an objective morality is the illusion. We can't achieve an objective reality because as I have said before our society and its moral compass is fluid, it changes.

Your question about good and evil is a good one, but I have to use my same answer. Good and evil are also subjectives. What one society/civilization thinks is good or evil may not be the same as another. Our concepts of good and evil also change and evolve with society. There are examples of this throughout history within different civilizations.

I don't think there is a baseline value for good and evil for humanity. There may be goals that we set for ourselves, but this is the objective illusion that I mentioned. It's not real because it isn't obtainable.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Genesis1315 @ Sep. 27 2004,9:01)]Then where does this set of morals come from that everyone interprets differently?
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Originally?

I believe this came about from the "golden rule". What better marker is there? Treat me the way you want to be treated. From there it grows and evolves within society.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Sep. 27 2004,9:04)]I think that an objective morality is the illusion.  We can't achieve an objective reality because as I have said before our society and its moral compass is fluid, it changes.  

Your question about good and evil is a good one, but I have to use my same answer.  Good and evil are also subjectives.  What one society/civilization thinks is good or evil may not be the same as another.  Our concepts of good and evil also change and evolve with society.  There are examples of this throughout history within different civilizations.  

I don't think there is a baseline value for good and evil for humanity.  There may be goals that we set for ourselves, but this is the objective illusion that I mentioned.  It's not real because it isn't obtainable.
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So good and evil are purely of humanity's fabrication? I do not abandon that idea, for it could be right. Maybe morallity is one big illusion, merely a set of social rules set up by societies. But I feel that there is something more. For instance, even nihilists have morals. I am not equiped to do an all-out defense of this belief yet..but it intrigues me greatly.

Just because we may never obtain it doesn't mean it isn't true, yes?
 
Correct. Maybe I didn't word it correctly, so let me try again.

The objective view of good/evil and as a moral standard is not reachable. By referring to it as an illusion I meant that it cannot be reached. It is a lofty goal, something to set our sights on.

I don't think we can refer to is as true or false though, it is simply an ideal.

Society can not exist without a sense of morality or without a sense of right or wrong. Without some form of order society would crumble into chaos. Good and evil create the foundation for order.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]So good and evil are purely of humanity's fabrication? I do not abandon that idea, for it could be right. Maybe morallity is one big illusion, merely a set of social rules set up by societies. But I feel that there is something more. For instance, even nihilists have morals. I am not equiped to do an all-out defense of this belief yet..but it intrigues me greatly.
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But I do not think this is the case. I would suggest that just as we were created so was good and evil.
 
I do not yet know which way I am on this... It could be that morallity is humanity's invention...then again it could be an intrinsic aspect of ourselves. The jury is still out on this one.
 
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