The "former" Christian is...

[Stc95]

Matthew 8:21
"Not all people who sounds religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is is whether they obey my Father in heaven."
I just noticed that it says 'Lord, [COMMA]' as in letter, or adressing...i'll have to check other versions to see if it was a typo

KJV Says "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father whichi s in heaven."

 

[ChickenSoup]

Matthew 8:21
"Not all people who sounds religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is is whether they obey my Father in heaven."
I just noticed that it says 'Lord, [COMMA]' as in letter, or adressing...i'll have to check other versions to see if it was a typo

It's separating two independent clauses, I believe.

Not all people who sounds religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

"They may refer to me as Lord. They still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Or,

"They may refer to me as Lord, but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

[Stc95]

Ya, what C$ said is probably right. or maybe God is using some fancy puncuation that we will learn in heaven?

 

[mist_01]

Ya, what C$ said is probably right. or maybe God is using some fancy puncuation that we will learn in heaven?

Pretty sure it wasn't written in English, however, I am sure our translators knew their grammar.

 

[Durruck]

Not sure why this thread showed up on the "new" list, but hey, it made for a good read that I missed before.

In reference to the double... ...Lord, Lord... here, I'd have to look back at my notes, but I'm almost certain that it was intentionally written twice to show emphasis. If you think about the phrase "Lord of lords" it shows that God is above our earthly "lords" (the landholders, essentially)... same thing here - Jesus makes it clear through his words that he's not talking about any old land-owner; he's talking about The Owner.

 

[Stc95]

That makes sense.. i think i could live with that answer.

if no one minds me stealing this thread for now.. what does it mean when God is the God of gods. Does that mean that there is in fact more than one "god" and that He is the main one. or is just saying that He is the true god and above everyone else' false gods.

 

[Durruck]

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry:
1god
Pronunciation:
\ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
Date:
before 12th century

1capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3: a person or thing of supreme value
4: a powerful ruler

There's a few different lines you could easily look at...

First, definition 2: Someone with more than normal abilities. Writers may look at Homer, Chaucer, or Shakespeare as "gods" of writing. Also contained in this definition would probably be the Greek & Roman gods (Zeus, et al), Baal, Asherah, et al of the Bible.

Definition 3: Person or thing of supreme value. People let money, fame, and all sorts of other stuff be the thing that they prize more than all else, and their only focus in life is to get more of it. If my only goal in life is to collect the most paperclips, I've potentially let paperclips become the "god of my life".

Definition 4: A powerful ruler. Caesar, Hitler... great military leaders often let success and power go to their heads. They think that they are the thing that deserves worship.

So what does it mean that our God is the God of gods? Our God made everything and is in control of it all. So regardless of which definition or use of god you choose here - He rules over them all.

 

[TheChad1215]

That makes sense.. i think i could live with that answer.

if no one minds me stealing this thread for now.. what does it mean when God is the God of gods. Does that mean that there is in fact more than one "god" and that He is the main one. or is just saying that He is the true god and above everyone else' false gods.

I also would have to go back to some old notes (freshman year old), but I do remember my Religion prof down here at Baylor (and I know he's not the only one who thinks this) said something about the ancient Hebrews being monotheistic in the sense that the only God they worshiped was Yahweh, but that they didn't entirely count out the existence of other people's gods. The point to them was that out God was THE God of gods, the most powerful, omniscient and the only one deserving of their devotion. This is played out in the scene in Egypt where it was virtually the gods of the Egyptians (Ra, Mut, Nut, etc) against the God of the Hebrews, and of course, everyone knows how our snake ate their snake.

Anyway, I wish I had my notes to see exactly how that theory was developed cause I can't remember if it actually holds any basis besides just kinda fitting in with the story. Doesn't really have much to do with our faith because we all know there's only one God.

-Chadley

 

[Durruck]

n the sense that the only God they worshiped was Yahweh, but that they didn't entirely count out the existence of other people's gods.

Correct, in fact, there are a few places in the Bible where people from other nations acknowledge our God. From what I've read, it seems like it was a matter of courtesy, not true belief in other gods.

 

[David's Sling]

There is only one true God as we define the word, but there are spiritual beings out there who would wish us to see them as gods. These are most likely the more powerful of the demons that followed after Satan. There is an occurence of an angel ( Gabriel, I believe) fighting one such being, the demon Baal, when trying to deliver a message to one of God's people. This demon was worshiped as a God in pagan societies. the term "Baal worship" should be familiar to a few here. He had appatently used his spiritual nature to deceive people into thinking he was a god to be worshipped. In modern culture, spirit worship has fallen from favor (though it looks to be coming back slowly). Instead, objects like money, toys, cars, stocks, etc. can become our gods if we are not careful.

That seems a fairly clear presentation of my views on this issue. Please corrent any minor mistakes as to names, etc., as I was only quoting from memory.

[edit:for clarity and spelling]

 

[Stc95]

wow.. i forgot i hijacked this thread..

I think I understand now.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[Zeena]

I believe that in order to answer this question we look at the root, rather than the fruit

The root being;

What is a 'Christian'?

A 'Christian' is someone who has recieved the very Life of God in Christ Jesus by believing on His Holy Name, amen?

Can anyone change who they are?

 

[ewoksrule]

Amen!

 

[Zeena]

E. Both/Either

A "former Christian" cold be saved or could never have been saved. There are some who go through the motions, never having believed, and others who are prodigal sons.

I originally thought one could lose one's salvation. Years later, I came to understand that one cannot; it is sealed. I honestly could not explain either argument right now.

You don't have to explain, as there really are no words sufficient to extol the praises of our God! :XD

Romans 5:6-10
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[David's Sling]

Very compelling arguments on both sides. A Christian can be defined quite simply: a person in whom dwells the Holy Spirit. This is the (albeit physically invisible) mark of a believer in Christ. After we accept Christ's work and submit to Him, the comforter comes into our hearts to guide us. Christ has dies for all men, but only those who accept Him as Lord and follow Him will be saved. We must confess and believe. Then, Christ's blood covers them, cleanses their sin in the eyes of God, and they receive the indwelling of the Holy spirit. Now, once one has obtained this, can they throw it away?

edit: in action, this is a dangerous question. It tends to act as a excuse for wrong living, in the case of never losing your salvation, or a case for works salvation, in the case of being able to lose it.

In practice, i say to live as though you could lose it, but love and hope in Him as if you couldn't. In the end the Lord will take care of His own.