The Antichrist will be popular

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Protestants come out with a new tract every few years naming their latest Geo-Political Threat as being the ‘Army of the Antichrist’.

Political convenience aside, shouldn’t the Protestants ever consider the possibility that there might actually be something to Revelations, besides an exploitable avenue for current hate propaganda? Now, I won’t get into the small details and intricate symbolisms in Revelations – I admit that it is way past my ability to make sense of the apocalyptic minutia. But the larger issues deserve reflection.

The Antichrist is to be in command of the Popular Movements of His Time. The Protestants may have been on to something when they were pointing a finger at the Communists, when the Reds were on their upward ascendant. But even then, the Communists were utterly materialistic and shunned the Religiosity that St. John would attribute to the Antichrist and his Movement. The Antichrist will make a big show of being Religious, no?

Now, since 911, the Muslims are Protestantism’s new darlings to be the Army of the Antichrist. But really – the Islamic Struggle is merely a rear-guard action. They aren’t attacking… they’re defending, and they are defending against a Popular Western Culture that is eradicating their identity, and a Protestant Ethic of Greed that is evicting them out of their own economies, and a Zionist/Protestant Militarism that is committing genocide against them. If one were to forget who is ‘us’ and who is ‘them’ for a minute and just think in terms of Revelation’s sense of justice and the Vision that a Greedy Overwhelming Culture of an Antichrist will surround and attack a beleaguered minority of oppressed True Religionists – then it would be easier to see Protestant Western Culture as the Army of the Antichrist.

“But we are on the side of Jesus”. Well, are you? Your doctrines come from Paul and Paul rejects Righteousness as a ‘boast’ and a ‘debt’. Honesty, though, what True Religion would reject Righteousness? Now, a Religion of an Antichrist would certainly reject Righteousness. Wouldn’t that be how one could define the Religion of the Antichrist? Your Easy Salvation may seem personally desirable, as going to Heaven is better than going to Hell, but you can’t call it Religion. You can’t reject Religious Law and still call yourself Religious… oh wait, but you do.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now, since 911, the Muslims are Protestantism’s new darlings to be the Army of the Antichrist.
How many times must I say that the antichrist will come out of the EU. He will come from the nation that destroyed the temple and the was the Roman empire. The EU is the revived Roman empire.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Honesty, though, what True Religion would reject Righteousness?
I dont know. I dont have a religeon I have a relationship.
 
Hello Leo,

You claim Paul is of the antichrist. I will sincerely pray and ask the Holy Spirit to show you your error. To claim Paul's epistles are not Scripture is denying the inerrancy of Scripture which I referred to in another post. Please take the time to read and respond to my post under "Catholic Miracles" as it brings to light the inspiration, thus inerrancy of Scripture.

Peter believed Pauls writings were inspired.

"and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures (2 Peter 3:15,16).

Again, Jesus made important predictions on the preservation and interpretation of the facts that are connected with Him and His mission. Before the ascension, Christ told His disciples that the Holy Spirit would make them competent teachers of the Truth. Jesus said the Spirit would do this by coming to them, teaching them all things, by bringing to their remembrance all that He has said to them, by guiding them into all truth, and by showing them things to come (John 14:26; 16:13).

Here, Jesus guarantees inerrancy and infallibility of the Scripture. And above Peter uses Paul’s epistles as support for his teaching through the "inpiration" of the Holy Spirit. To deny Paul is to deny the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the authority of Jesus Christ and the infallibility of the Word of God.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 18 2003,7:43)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now, since 911, the Muslims are Protestantism’s new darlings to be the Army of the Antichrist.
How many times must I say that the antichrist will come out of the EU. He will come from the nation that destroyed the temple and the was the Roman empire. The EU is the revived Roman empire.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Honesty, though, what True Religion would reject Righteousness?
I dont know. I dont have a religeon I have a relationship.
You can not prove you have a relationship.

Look at your Bible. Christ gave a clear enough criteria for recognizing Faith -- in a number of places. One with Faith should be able to walk on water. Should be able to heal. Cast out Demons. With even a little faith you should be able to command mountains to move and trees to uproot themselves and be hurled into the
Sea. But you can do none of these things. So, not being able to demonstrate any of the Fruits of Faith, what makes you think that you can Summon Christ like he was your own personal Jin?

Because Paul says so. Of course. But Christ trumps Paul. If you can't prove Faith, then you don't have Faith.

Now, not being able to prove Faith is not such a crushing humiliation for a Catholic. It does not require Faith to obey. And where a Catholic cannot attain to Perfect Righteousness, it gives him occassion to Humility, which, also is a virtue.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] It does not require Faith to obey.

You can tell a monkey not to murder and the monkey will obey for not knowing any better. Jesus said it was not enough to simply obey the requirements of the law.
 
i havent see you move a mountain leo. who are you to say that Paul was wrong? your are nothing more than a meer man that has never seen the face of Christ like Paul or Peter did, in fact did you ever consider that God recruited people because of his religious zeal and the fact that he had already have some formal training in dealing with petty strife that would arise in his church between leaders. You forget that Peter was just a fishermen, and thus wasnt the smartest of people, Yes when he spoke about Christ and the Holy spirit it was Inspired, but, he was still a fisherman.
 
Leo,

Just out of a mild sense of curiosity, how do you define "faith"?

It would appear that you are using a definition that really should not be accepted, but as of right now, I can't be sure.
 
Gentleman must i constantly remind you the anti-christ can not say/utter even once YESHUA IS THE LORD. AMEN
i am nothing0 and given to discern the spirits in men.
YESHUA IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD JESUS. AMEN
 
Watcher, the biblical inerrancy you speak of comes from Timothy, a letter written by Paul. Interesting - Paul claims his own epistles to be divinely inspired.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CndBacon @ Oct. 18 2003,12:15)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] It does not require Faith to obey.

You can tell a monkey not to murder and the monkey will obey for not knowing any better.  Jesus said it was not enough to simply obey the requirements of the law.
You need to re-read The Sermon of the Mount.

Christ said that it is not enough to stay within the letter of the Law, but we must exceed it. Christ was asking for more Righteousness, not less! Christ said that not one dot of an 'i' will be removed from the Law until the End of Time. Is this why Prots, and yes, even the Catholics have become institutionally Anti-Semitic and have largely tossed the Law out. Fortunately the Catholic Church has maintained the notion that morality is still required, but Prots dropped even that.

And about your Obedient Monkey. They do not exist in Nature. The problem with keeping Pet Monkeys is that when they grow old the become very willful and will fight you for dominance in your own home. This is to be a very bad monkey, and they are all like that. However, if you could find an Obedient Monkey -- a moral exception from the Monkey Kingdom, then, yes, that Monkey would be worthy of Heaven. More than you!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 18 2003,12:56)]i havent see you move a mountain leo. who are you to say that Paul was wrong? your are nothing more than a meer man that has never seen the face of Christ like Paul or Peter did, in fact did you ever consider that God recruited people because of his religious zeal and the fact that he had already have some formal training in dealing with petty strife that would arise in his church between leaders. You forget that Peter was just a fishermen, and thus wasnt the smartest of people, Yes when he spoke about Christ and the Holy spirit it was Inspired, but, he was still a fisherman.
Dear LyingofJudah,

You Prots have a proclivity for individualism. Individuals go to Hell with Satan the Great Individual. Catholics are collective creatures. For instance, arguablly the Greatest Miracle Worker in Catholic...in World History was Saint Vincent Ferrer of the 15th Century. Hundreds of Miracles a day. But he had 10,000 followers with him who would constantly be scourging themselves in Penance. They were the Engine that fueled all these Miracles. It was a team effort.

Therefore, where are "my" Miracles. I keep telling you to look at the Catholic Websites. All of the current Apparitions of Our Lady and the Miracles being documented in the Catholic Church from day to day, are 'my' miracles, in so much as my Penance goes to pay God for them.

What you Prots lack is a sense for the Poetic and a sense for the Zen-ness of Religious Truths. You ignore all that, but never wonder why you are spiritually sterile and religiously mundance. Christ spoke of His being the Vine and his Church the branches. This speaks of a unitary and collective Life. Protestant Proud Individualism is therefore a Renunciation of Christ and Heaven. I am not 'me' -- I am the Church, and the Church is Christ. There is no 'personal' Salvation. A leaf cannot thrive apart from the Vine.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 18 2003,12:56)]You forget that Peter was just a fishermen, and thus wasnt the smartest of people, Yes when he spoke about Christ and the Holy spirit it was Inspired, but, he was still a fisherman.
Dear Lyingofjudah,

No, I never forget how stupid Peter is. Peter didn't have the Faith to keep his head above water. Christ had to rebuke him with "Satan get thee behind me because you do not understand the things of Heaven but only care about the things of the World". He renounced Christ three times even after being warned.

But then he has the Holy Spirit.

I wonder whether this Holy Spirit does not come and go. It was Peter who authorized Paul's divergence from True Doctrine. Disciples came down from the Greek Cities alarmed that Paul was spreading a New Doctrine. So, you want to know what Peter said? "As long as he pays his dues he can say whatever he likes". So don't tell me that I could ever possibly forget that Peter is Stupid. Peter was Monumentally Stupid. And he was greedy. He would bring his Greed into the Church and his Greed would become a curse that would remain a characteristic of the Papacy to this day. Now, no Pope since Peter has been stupid enough to say "I don't care what they teach as long as they pay their dues". But consistent ethics have always taken a back seat to economic considerations. Even in the 12th and 13th Centuries when the Church was being transformed by the Mendicant Orders of Poverty -- it was only the Papacy that resisted the Reforms and kept their carriages and fine brocade robes.

Also, in the Book of Acts -- we find Peter so greedy that he has a couple killed for holding out. Everyone in the Community at Jerusalem was giving 'all' their property into the common fund. This one young couple kept back a few coins for a rainy day. Peter had them executed. Now, we know that the Church now supports individual property rights. During Christ's Ministry contributions were taken only from His wealthiest supporters. Jesus was not shaking down every follower.

I suspect that it was this Over Zealousness with other people's property that alienated Peter from the Jerusalem Community. Historically it seems that Jerusalem was being lead by James The Righteous, Cousin of Jesus. Peter was pushed out and went to Rome, where the local Christian Community did not make efforts sufficient to protect him from Nero's persecutions. So a very bad Pope became a very good Martyr. Getting killed was the only decent thing he did his entire life.
 
your wrong in Acts the reason why they where killed is because they lied, and God didnt want the First Christian Church of Jerusalem being corrupted, even though the very thing that the couple did happens alot today.

Oh by the way James is Jesus BROTHER
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 18 2003,10:20)]your wrong in Acts the reason why they where killed is because they lied, and God didnt want the First Christian Church of Jerusalem being corrupted, even though the very thing that the couple did happens alot today.

Oh by the way James is Jesus BROTHER
Oh, I am so sorry. There is such a huge difference between being murdered because you 'held out', and being murdered because you didn't say you were 'holding out'. You remind me of the people who said that Clinton was not impeached for sex, but for lying about sex. The distinction is bewildering.

As for James being Christ's 'brother' -- only in Aramaic. In Aramaic there is not distinction between the words "Cousin" and "Brother". In English, if you are not a Hill Billy, there is a difference between Cousin and Brother. So, since we are using English, we may call a spade a spade and call James a "Cousin". Afterall, the word is used several times in the New Testament. The most revealing is in the account given of Jesus when He was 12 years old. It seems, He was not noticed as missing when the Caravan left Jerusalem. Mary and Joself had their own "family" wagon, but they thought Jesus might have been with His 'brethren'. This clearly indicates that Mary and Joseph thought Jesus with another "family" -- an Uncle or an Aunt's wagon.

Besides, Our Lady has appeared hundreds of times and each time She does, She reiterates the fact that She is a Perpetual Virgin, and that this status means a great deal to Her. I shouldn't have to remind anybody that to question somebody's virtue is a great insult. And here we are talking about the Mother of God. It is a judgable offense, I'm sure. I was once an Atheist, and, God forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't remember gratuitously assailing the Virtue of Our Lady even then. But you People who even call yourselves Christian find it absolutely necessary to always be casting aspersions against Our Blessed Virgin. It can't possibly be of positive Doctrinal Importance to you -- it is done only to cause Pain to The True Church and Our Lady Personally. As such, it must certainly be a damnable offense. As pure mean-spiritedness, it can't be anything but. That is why I believe I was ever innocent of the crime. Even when an Atheist, I was never simply mean-spirited.
 
Mary has appeared by VISION ALONE.
And at no time has she said she was a Perpetual virgin.
For in doing so she would have made St.Mathew a liar in  St. Matthew 1:25 (Douay).
Ergo if so much as even one apparition of a mary said she was a perpetual virgin after Jesus, that was NOT Mary but only a demonic vision.
Mary can NOT MAKE ST. MATTHEW TO BE A LIAR.
If only you were educated by THE HOLY GHOST and not a poor doctrine.
But no matter the proof is in the WORKS(JESUS CLASS MIRACLES) AND not men who can not prove FAITHE.
So then i do say always THE LORD JESUS, i am nothing0, and agree with Paul 100%.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 18 2003,7:43)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now, since 911, the Muslims are Protestantism’s new darlings to be the Army of the Antichrist.
How many times must I say that the antichrist will come out of the EU. He will come from the nation that destroyed the temple and the was the Roman empire. The EU is the revived Roman empire.
With all respect to you, Pop...

Among others...

Napolean (yeah that one...short guy...hand in coat) was the antichrist.

Saddam Hussain was the antichrist.

A lot of the popes were the antichrist.

Mikkail Gorbechev was the antichrist

Hitler was the antichrist

Stalin was the antichrist

Lincoln was the antichrist.

According to Pat Robertson, the antichrist will arise in Isreal and be a Jew.

Just saying.

So, I must ask...where do you get the AC from the EU from?
 
I say he will come from the EU because as far as I know the Bible says he will come from the nation that destroyed the temple. That nation was Rome the EU is the revived Roman empire. All these other people were not the antichrist. Pat Robertson is wrong to say that he will be Jewish. To say these people were him is idiotic because christians will never see him. Or atleast from a pretrib point of view. Also if they were the millenial reign would be going on right now.
 
you forget that it was written in GREEK. Greek has clear definitions for brother and cousin. Also it makes referance to James as being a brother even before the believers start to call eachother that. John 7
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Oct. 18 2003,10:58)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 18 2003,7:43)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now, since 911, the Muslims are Protestantism’s new darlings to be the Army of the Antichrist.
How many times must I say that the antichrist will come out of the EU. He will come from the nation that destroyed the temple and the was the Roman empire. The EU is the revived Roman empire.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Honesty, though, what True Religion would reject Righteousness?
I dont know. I dont have a religeon I have a relationship.
You can not prove you have a relationship.  

Look at your Bible.  Christ gave a clear enough criteria for recognizing Faith -- in a number of places.  One with Faith should be able to walk on water.  Should be able to heal.  Cast out Demons.  With even a little faith you should be able to command mountains to move and trees to uproot themselves and be hurled into the
Sea.  But you can do none of these things.  So, not being able to demonstrate any of the Fruits of Faith, what makes you think that you can Summon Christ like he was your own personal Jin?  

Because Paul says so.  Of course.  But Christ trumps Paul.  If you can't prove Faith, then you don't have Faith.

Now, not being able to prove Faith is not such a crushing humiliation for a Catholic.  It does not require Faith to obey.  And where a Catholic cannot attain to Perfect Righteousness, it gives him occassion to Humility, which, also is a virtue.
Leo would you mind telling me when I said I couldent do these things? And to quote I believe Kidan. (correct me if I am wrong here) If you have enough faith to move a mountain then you have enough faith not to test it. Please tell me when I said I can summon Christ.
 
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