Terri's Dead!

[toj.cc]phantom

[toj.cc]phantom

Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
Okay now I'm ticked off. I can't believe that Terri had suffer the way she did just so her husbaned could be "happy". Personally ,even though it may be wrong, I hope he has a car wreck and his car rolls down a cliff! She died today 13 days after her husbaned had her murderd.
 
I think we have to be careful with our emotions.

I suppose by your definition, I too am a murderer, or at least an accomplice to one in that my father in laws family decided to care for him at home while he died of cancer. I am quite sure he starved during the last few days of his life as we didn't have a feeding tube, or a heart monitor or a lung machine.

Second, this was a family matter. Why did it ever get to the media? Because somebody somewhere wasn't getting their way, this was a hissie fit. Everyday you breathe, families across North America and the World are struggling with the very issues that the Schiavo family did, maybe involving 1,000's of families per year. Why are the others not brought to media attention? Part of the answer is that it is none of our business. Another part of the feud (maybe a larger part then what the media will let be known) has to do with the million dollar settlement the Schiavo's won in a malpractice suit a decade ago.

I don't believe that Micheal was the demon the media made him out to be, nor do I believe that the Schindlers were the saints the media made them out to be. People like to see good guys and bad guys in their stories. I think both parties were both good and bad guys. I think all three parties were victims.

It is sad that she died, no death goes or should go without mourning. Maybe she suffered, maybe she didn't. I don't know, do you? I've never died, I've never died of starvation, or drowning, or in my sleep or in any physical manner. So I don't know what she went through, or didn't go through. We assume she suffered because we draw on our own experiences of what it is like to not eat. Maybe her condition is not unlike hypothermia. Both lead to death but you are unawares of your predictament. Maybe, she didn't suffer at all and we are placing an emotional attachment where it doesn't belong.
 
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Sorry if I made you mad Gods_Peon, but what makes me mad is that they weren't alloud to give her any food or what at all. They couldn't even run an ice cube across her lips.
 
I'm not mad, never have been. Lots of people have lots of emotions tied up with the Schiavo case. I am saying, check your emotions. Terri had a living will, one in which she said that she didn't want any tubes attached to her should her condition worsen. It worsened, her husband followed her wishes, her parents didn't. He's made the bad guy, her parents the saints.

The Schiavo case should cause people to ask questions, be sure you are asking the right questions. What are the right questions?, Everybodies questions will likely be different. For Genesis it was about living wills and what her wishes are should she find herself in Terri's predictament. It appears she wants her husband to choose life. What would happen if her parents wanted to pull the plug and the media made HesComminSoon out as some sort of demon by forcing his wife to survive on feeding tubes, headlines screaming "pathetic quality of life", "End it Already" and "Parents are saints for wanting to end daughters life."

I'm also saying, that this case should never have hit the public arena. And the way it did was in a self serving manner. What purpose was served by taking this to the media? It split the nation on a decision, an arguement, a dispute that belongs amongst family membres. It caused the demonization of a person who might not deserve the said title.

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Made some edits to clear up paragraph two a bit more.
 
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Gods_Peon said:
Terri had a living will, one in which she said that she didn't want any tubes attached to her should her condition worsen.
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Actually this is the problem. Terri did not have a living will, and it was just the word of her husband that this is what she would have wanted. Personally, I fail to see why it would have bothered him to allow her to live, and him turning custody over to her family. Its not like he had not gotten on with this life already.

As for why this case made the news while hundreds of others don't. It's because the husband and family disagreed with one another. If Terri's parents had no problem with her not living the way she was, she would have been dead a decade ago.

My questions of course, mainly to do with the power this fiasco has given the judiciary of our country (basically, they have given themselves the power to enforce the rulings they hand down, overriding both the legislative and executive branches of government) and the fact that a judge has deemed he was able to deny an American Citizen one of the inalienable rights. Judge Greer has deemed that those with severe mental problems no longer have the inalienable right to life. Now we'll get the arguments of what is the definition of severe mental problems.
 
Legally, Micheal was still Terri's husband, and all the responsibilities that come with that were still his. We may not like the decisions he made, we may not like the conditions under which he made them, but they were his to make. Every foundation of marriage is already under attack from every possible angle, what would the consequence be if the law of the land usurped another foundation of marriage?

Getting on with ones life does not mean we shake our responsibilities. Yes, they promised to be together through the worst of it all. I imagine that this was about as bad as it gets. None-the-less, unless they were divorced, they were still married. His disregarding Gods laws does not shirk him of his responsibilty to his wife. If he said that this was her wish, then why should I question it? If this was not her wish, it is Micheal who will face God over it.
 
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I think the living will is the key to this tragedy. So much in fact that I have made mine drawn up, I do not propose or condone what Terri was put thru . If I was in her place, I would like to die. I have it written up that if I am brain dead or impaired to the point of no longer being able to take care of myself in a manner I have dictated, and/or I need life support to exist, I want the order giving to allow the natural course of my life to expire.

Now I am not saying what happen to Terri is the same, what I am saying is that I had to put this in writing because My loving wife could never give that order. SO I had to make sure my wishes were met. If Terri would have had a living will, we would have never known she existed.

It’s a horror that we can never be sure what her wishes were. But that burden is now on her husbands shoulders and he will have answer for his actions.


May The Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on his soul.
 
Gods_Peon said:
Legally, Michael was still Terri's husband, and all the responsibilities that come with that were still his. We may not like the decisions he made, we may not like the conditions under which he made them, but they were his to make. Every foundation of marriage is already under attack from every possible angle, what would the consequence be if the law of the land usurped another foundation of marriage?
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I agree with you on the foundations of marriage being sacred and that society in general has been attacking that institution for decades but...I don't agree that Michael had the right to have the feeding tube removed. There are several reasons for this:

Michael gave up his marital rights when he took on a new 'spouse' and family. Unless we are going to argue that polygamy is OK, then we have to say that Mr. Shiavo for all intents and purposes was no longer Terri's husband.

While Michael may not have been the monster that he was painted to be by some...he was still not a model husband in this case.

Although I wish the media had not been involved in the way they were, this belonged in the courts. Michael’s strange behavior and Terri's biological family disputing her wish to die along with his giving up his rights as a husband by starting his new family, make this a case worth outside intervention.

When the laws of the land go against God's teachings, we are to stand against the law of the land. I know it can be argued that the bible says nothing about this type of issue because nothing of it's kind was around then. However, that can be said of abortion also. Whether we like it or not, this is a huge right to life issue.

The argument that Terri was not suffering from starvation and dehydration but that she did not want to suffer living like this is a complete contradiction. If she feels nothing then what's the big deal keeping her body alive by feeding it. If she is suffering from the way she lives then that means she feels something and they just starved a feeling person to death. Can't have it both ways.

This is a terrible tragedy from all angles and I believe it is the next step down a very dangerous road for our country. Our judicial branch of government scares me more and more every day. We are in big trouble as a nation and this was just another example of the degeneration of our nations morality.
 
Well do u expect mike to live alone untill terri finally died of natural causes.
And if he was married to terri, it would mean terri had trust in him to do whats best for her. So if Terri trusted him to make the right decision its not really murder.
I know not everyone's perfect and he could be a creep who just wanted to get rid of his wife. But if he wanted to move on and get married again he could of just got a divorce, and handed over medical decision rights to the parents.

Again I want to say he was married to Terri, so he would know Terri better than anyone else. Also I agree this is their personal situation and we probobly don't know everything. We're getting the he said, she said. We wern't there to know all the facts.
 
Gandhi said:
Well do u expect mike to live alone untill terri finally died of natural causes.
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Yes! Or as you said divorce her and let her family take care of her. Until death do us part is not...until you are so sick I don't want you anymore do us part.
 
but if he just wanted to get rid of her he would of divorced her a long time ago. Personaly I think he finally came realised that she is gone and wanted her to go to a peacefull place.

The media put him as being the bad guy, because it makes better news.
And if he thinks terri wanted to get off the feeding tube and go to "heaven" or whatever y would he divorce her and let her parents take care of her. He thought he wasd doing this in the best interest of terri.
But then again how do we know what he's thinking, can we read his mind.
 
Gandhi said:
But then again how do we know what he's thinking, can we read his mind.
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That is exactly the point..always err in favor of life. I am not here to judge Michael Shiavo. Christ died for all our sins, no matter what Michael has done at any point in his life God is willing to wash those sins away. My point in my first post was that this belonged in the courts. As you said we don't know what is going through his mind or the mind of Terri's blood kin. What we do know is that alot of weird things went on between them, and an outside and hopefully objective source needed to be involved.

In this case I question the objectivity of the courts. The courts of our land have run amuck. For decades I have been watching them misinterpret the constitution and make law. Whether Michael Shiavo was telling the truth or not is beside the point.

If you want politically correct blather your not going to get it from me...life is sacred period .

I fear for our country.
 
Sure life is sacred but is sitting in a bed for 15 years really living. I guess it depends on who u ask. If it was me, I'd want to have someone incharge of my care to say he's not going to recover, let him go to whatever comes when u die. Its better than being a veg on a bed. And thats what I've told my family.
So to me I think mike did a ok thing, but then again I don't think if I loved someone I would be able to starve them to death. I have a weak stomach. So I'm alittle bit of a hypocrit.
 
This random thought just entered my mind:

I wonder how hard Mary would fight to have Jesus put on life support if she had the option? And what would the consequences be?




This is what I take from this whole ordeal:

1. It is important to let family and loved ones know what your wishes are should your family finds you in this position.

2. We will not know the whole truth of the situation until God reveals it to us. So I make no speculations.
 
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I'm finding it scary how I've been agreeing with u on many topics GP. I sence a disturbane in the force.
 
Gods_Peon said:
I wonder how hard Mary would fight to have Jesus put on life support if she had the option? And what would the consequences be?
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Absolutely no parallel at all to what we are talking about here :) Nothing man (or satan) could ever do would have thwarted God's plan.

I agree that we need to let not only our family but our doctor know how we want to be treated or not treated a case like this.
 
Gandhi said:
I'm finding it scary how I've been agreeing with u on many topics GP. I sence a disturbane in the force.
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I think it goes to show that we are open to a wide range of opinions, not that you are becoming a Christian nor am I not becoming one.

Absolutely no parallel at all to what we are talking about here Nothing man (or satan) could ever do would have thwarted God's plan.
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So, was Gods plan thwarted by letting Terri die? What if, Gods plan for Terri was brought into fullness with her death?
 
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Gods_Peon said:
So, was Gods plan thwarted by letting Terri die? What if, Gods plan for Terri was brought into fullness with her death?
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Terri's death was a part of God's plan.

God is in control!

What if it was God's plan to bring Christians together in righteous indignation through allowing the enemy to kill a helpless woman? What if we all heed this warning shot over the bow? What if we all united together as Christians and did away with our denominational bias? What if we all fought together as one for the 'soul' of our nation?

Imagine the work that God could do through us!
 
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