One of the things I find most interesting about modern, conservative Christianity is this perceived need to make certain that everyone knows that we disagree with same-sex sexual intercourse.
As I said before every time I've brought it up it's because those that support LBGTQ have brought it up FIRST. They made it an "issue" not me. In this case they put it in the D&D rule book, they marched in the pride parade, they choose their side (left out the Lead Rules Designer is married to a dude and Wotc wants to put more LBGTQ in the D&D backstory too). If we are to have any earnest discussion on the moral content of something we can not ignore it. Furthermore with the discrimination against Christians and legalization of gay marriage we clearly aren't bringing the subject up enough. Sin is not a passive thing it's seeks acceptance and growth. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. In this case if Christians are too afraid of being jumped on, in a Christian forum, to even mention it, evil wins.
It relies on using the word "appearance of evil" as the basis for the thought, which is interesting because it relies on the use of the KJV translation since the other major translations translate it differently (either as "every kind of evil" or "every form of evil"). The thought of "we must not do anything that even looks evil" is not as clearly derived from the original text as your posts would make it appear.
If we hold to that standard, Jesus himself would find himself in conflict with 1 Thessalonians 5:22. Consider the scene with the woman caught in adultery. Jesus stands up for the woman first. He protects her. He says nothing about her sin to the crowd. He only addresses the matter of sin with her -- privately -- after the crowd is gone. By your standard, Jesus himself committed a lie of omission -- and I don't think that's the case. (And it's not like it's a secret that the conservative church disapproves of gay marriage / same-sex sexual intercourse / etc. -- the LGBTQ community knows).
What conflict or omission? Jesus never goes up to anyone and says "I'm an adulterer too" or participates in acts that approve of that state. If He omitted anything it was the fact that He, being perfect, could have killed her which is kind of hard when His ministry was centered around him showing He is the perfect Son of God. You are actively calling yourself gay and organizing LGBTQ groups while you avoid saying you disprove acting on it. You are the one who wants to march in the Pride parade, an act that represents them.
I've assumed you are representing yourself as a Christian to them but then you say the LGBTQ community knows the conservative church disapproves of gay marriage. On the other hand you say if you say "I struggle with homosexuality" it would impede your ability to function in the LGBTQ community, which is it?
Also, a couple of fun facts as you toss around the "this is what gets you banned" hammer -- I can discuss, at length, and using plenty of scripture (and I hope you're familiar with Greek and Hebrew, because it matters) why the state of being gay/homosexual is not sinful, why the use of the label gay is not sinful, and I have statistics which back up my statements about how the culture at large uses terms such as "gay" (although you've already declared that those don't matter, I guess because they don't fit your already decided opinions?). Also worth noting is that I am actually a ToJ member (still) and still have some level of staff access at CGA. (So, technically, this is also partly my house/forum, even though I'm not routinely active.)
You make the assertion that I ignore statistics I don't agree with when I very specifically told you why with examples. In fact you've also ignored every reason, explanation, question and link I outlined in all my posts save for this one Biblical quote. This is not a discussion at this point.
I'm unclear how you could argue that the Bible says "the state of being gay/homosexual
is not sinful, why the use of the label gay
is not sinful" when you said earlier "But the Bible never says that we can’t consider ourselves gay or homosexual. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that having a gay orientation is wrong or sinful. It isn’t in there.". The absence of disapproval is neither approval or disapproval the very best you could hope for is silence.
Regardless I've already mentioned why it is sinful as merely thinking about a sin, is a sin (look above I'm not going to repeat myself again).
As to that one Biblical quote I remembered it because I read KJV, thoughts on other translations didn't occur to me. If you prefer I'm sure we can find things on not entering temptation as you "label" yourself gay and hang out with LGBTQ. I'm sure you know the Bible better than I but that speaks nothing to intent, wanting to do God's will or logic. Not that I compare you to the devil but remember he knows scripture too. I've seen LGBTQ try to use David and Jonathan to justify homosexuality and a Christian gay website debate if Leviticus 20:13 actually condemns homosexuality at all while completely ignoring the "put to death" part (and again I believe the correct course is John 8:1-11 forgive but say don't do it).
If you want to pursue banning me because I disagree with your theological stances and general callousness towards single/celibate people ("I mean if you aren't in or seeking to be in a relationship you aren't effectively "doing" anything so what do you expect help with?" For starters, maybe emotional support because that's hard?) then please go ahead. If the community here is willing to reject me for that, I'd rather get it over with.
...general callousness towards single/celibate people? Edac... do I really have to do this... I am single, never had any romantic relationship, and at 40 for the last 15~ years might, might, have gotten out of my house twice a year on average. I assure you unless you are the boy in the bubble I have far, far, less social contact than you. It's actually far worse than it sounds but I don't like talking about it because I consider excessive pity degrading. Regardless this is not a competition and I care about you regardless of the amount of pain you are in. Only this time apparently saying "If you want empathy ok I CAN relate to not having anywhere to go but I don't expect, or want, Churches to shift their focus from families." was not enough for you.
You have my sympathy Edac, I gave it multiple times, but I will not allow you to use it as a shield to obfuscate the truth. I've seen this tactic frequently. (Off topic: Just today the witnesses of the parkland shooting were using it while at the same time the media ignores any dissenting facts or witnesses
https://soundcloud.com/benshapiroshow/ep-504 16:30 ). As a Christian your suffering is not a justification for sin but don't feel alone in suffering either.
Lest you forget you brought up "Suggesting that we protect LGBTQ people was sufficient for Christian communities to remove me from leadership and threaten to ban me from their servers". Thus I warned you what would get you banned just as I tried to address most of your post. Speaking plainly and directly I believe you are upset from your rejection and, perhaps subconsciously, want to be banned so you can go hang with your LBGTQ friends free of guilt. I do not want you banned and pushed you into the very arms I want to keep you from. However if anytime anyone simply wants to mention that something supports LBGTQ you do this I don't see how we can do different (I still don't know what phrasing could possibly be polite enough for you or that the general population is supposed to be using).
I remember long ago an Atheist here raised objections any time you tried to say anything. I am 100% certain people left because they did not have the time to fight him. You worry too much about scaring off potential LBGTQ converts when you should worry first about pleasing God. While we could argue about how upfront we should be about confronting a person with their sin it is more than reasonable to expect discussing sins, abstract from a specific person, on a Christian forum.
So you know, again informing you upfront, no I do not believe you should have moderator rights as I do not believe your values reflect a Christian perspective. We can discuss them but I disagree with having you represent us from a position of authority. If a new member should post and receive a similar response from you, as a mod, those values will be attributed to us.
Completely and totally random thought: Hmm it might be nice for Christians to have a place for fellowship, support and to earnestly talk about what God wants without worrying about getting syntax attacked. I mean it's not like Christ had disciples apart from the people he preached to. Whatever it's clear I'm too "callous" to consider this or sacrifice writing for hours on end instead of just banning.
Still not angry, exhausted, but not angry! (actually quite sad if anything)
