Summer 2013 anime

[Elader Arkon]

Ok, someone was telling me about SAO. Since I've been out of most newer anime for a while the premise intrigues me but it seems rather similar to one of my all time favorites: .hack //sign. How does it compare? Totally different, somewhat similar, total ripoff?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Ok, someone was telling me about SAO. Since I've been out of most newer anime for a while the premise intrigues me but it seems rather similar to one of my all time favorites: .hack //sign. How does it compare? Totally different, somewhat similar, total ripoff?

I wrote a little about it in the older anime thread here. Having seen it all now I can verify my opinion is still accurate.

 

[Elader Arkon]

Mostly I was curious about how they treated the 'in a virtual world' aspect. One of the reasons I loved .hack //sign so much was how prescient the series was in terms of MMOs. I remember the first time I watched it, I thought it was rather cheap how the developers would let the players handle pretty much everything in the game and all the politics involved. What was this, a PvPRP server or something? aaand then a few years later I played EVE Online.

And I'm also a sucker for character driven storylines.

 

[Kendrik]

Just watch it, mate. It's short. I'm a definite fan. The .hack//Sign similarity is what drew me to it too. (I love .hack//Sign. I've even bought a couple of the light novels from the .hack universe.) It's actually considerably different from .hack//Sign in a bunch of ways, but that underlying "how does morality and order hold up in a virtual world?" element is definitely present here. Just doooo iiiiiit.

 

[Tek7]

I watched the first episode of Sword Art Online. I can tell you the exact moment when I mentally checked out and lost all desire to continue watching: When all the players suddenly realized that *GASP* THEY COULDN'T LOG OUT.

I'm not saying SAO isn't a great series. I haven't watched enough to have an informed opinion. But the "virtual world where you can't log out until some higher power releases you or is defeated" premise just doesn't hold any appeal for me any more.

But then I found myself watching the first 4 episodes of a shounen series this season, so I don't even trust my own opinions right now.

 

[Tek7]

I've been watching Watamote myself. It pains me to ask, Tek, but were you even as close to solipsistic as she is? I'm mostly kidding.

Not gonna lie. Had to look up "solipsistic." Then had to steer my attention from Angel Beats (because it was such a great illustration of that concept) and back to Watamote.

If you're asking if I didn't respect the viewpoints of others during my teenage years, then I must confess that the answer, overall, is a resounding "yes." More precisely, I didn't respect the viewpoints of the popular kids, especially those that clung to the American triumphalism/Prosperity Gospel hybrid so prevalent where I grew up and yet teased me mercilessly because I was different and awkward.

I hated the popular kids. That hate, in part, shaped who I was. I'd like to think that the Lord has since redirected that hatred of pride and excluding others to drive me to embrace those who others reject. I can't help but wonder how influential that period of my life was in my decision to serve in a leadership role in the Christian gaming community.

But then, in my more honest moments, I understand I was no better than the kids who teased me. I just didn't have the luxury or comfort of popularity.

So much of my teenage life was sorting out which parts of me were sin, which parts were socially awkward, and which parts of me were just me. My tendency toward planning for worst case scenarios, for example, didn't sit well in a culture that was all about the "power of positive confession" and "name it and claim it" theology. As if the devil was just waiting for me to say, "I think I have a cold" before pouncing on me with devil germs. My apologies for my bitter tone; I'm discovering in recent years that that culture--or sub-culture, rather--had a more profound impact on me than I had originally thought.

I don't want to de-rail this thread any further with self-indulgent psychoanalysis, but I want to mention that when I was watching episode 4, I found myself involuntarily predicting how the character would react. Specifically, when she's in the popular clothing store, she's excited about getting trendy underpants, then she suddenly stops and asks herself, "What am I doing here?" as she suddenly realizes she doesn't fit in. The moment really resonated with me and made me empathize with a character that, at other terms, I find repulsive (not that repulsion and empathy are necessarily mutually exclusive).

But that's what keeps drawing me back to this series: At its best, the series portrays the main character as a very real young girl, out of sync with society, clueless how she got there, and often wrestling with whether she wants to be "in touch" or not. At its worst, Watamote's main character is a caricature, difficult to empathize with and seemingly humiliated in a bald attempt at dark humor. And sometimes, as odd as it may sound, it's hard to tell the difference.

Good show so far, though.

Unfortunately, after episode 4, I can't recommend the series to younger viewers, but I'm also conflicted because I don't think you can present an honest portrayal of awkward teenage life without sexuality playing a big role. It's inevitable that a young woman whose self-image is shaped largely by the surrounding consumer culture is bound to see herself in terms of beauty and sexual attractiveness. I can't yet tell if Watamote seeks to refute or tear down those assumptions or just use them as a framework to tell the story of an awkward teenage girl, but, at this point in the series, I would lean toward the former.

Whereas most anime series that focus on high school students are comedies, Watamote feels more like a tragedy. I remember when I was young I was fond of saying that the only difference between a comedy and a tragedy is the ending. And Watamote isn't over yet.

Curious, looking, yup you are right she is still not an actual fat and ugly main character, carry on.

Remember that this story is set in Japan, a locale and culture where obesity is far less common than in America. While an analogous story set in the US would all but require the main character to be overweight, obesity is not a necessary trait for this story.

In other words: Yes, she really is ugly. No, she's not fat, but the story's set in Japan, where obesity is not nearly the epidemic it is in the US.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

In other words: Yes, she really is ugly. No, she's not fat, but the story's set in Japan, where obesity is not nearly the epidemic it is in the US.

??? Kuroki Tomoko Um that's her picture right? I'm not seeing it. Seems like it's drawn in the typical cute anime fashion so I'm not sure what you mean by ugly? Give her some buck teeth, unsightly moles, over-sized mouth, smaller eyes (well small for anime), stocky frame or something physically repugnant. Anything that is obviously supposed to be ugly at a glance. They can draw actual ugly anime characters if they want but those exist in anime as supporting characters, bad guys, the lecherous balding middle aged guy or some combination therein.

Actually Accel World make a big issue of the main character being short and fat (though he too was drawn cute when not spending most of his time as "cool alternate world self" XD). In fact it was really the ONLY original thing in the entire series XD.

[rant begin] Being an artist these things annoy me with their lazy sameness. Like my rant on the evils of, well there is nothing else to call them but, "compass boobs" XD. The artists who in anime draw them not just absurdly large but draw them perfectly round. They aren't perfect round get some talent already! I'm not talking a moral lust argument here though I could. It's just plain lazy and cookie cutter. Were I not a Christian it would still annoy me as an artist. Similarly so many anime characters are the same head, particularly women (who are not allowed to have different shaped noses if one at all), with interchangeable hair (a fact I thought about exploiting to procedurally generate characters in a game but I digress). Again they can do different or ugly people but those are always side characters.[/end rant]

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

Actually, I like the fact that she's not actually an ugly character.
It makes it more obvious that her issues are mainly within her own mind.
And the fact that her and her family have major milk allergies.

 

[Gator]

TEK! Go watch Gintama!! It's funny.
Kendrik "KNOWS" this!

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Actually, I like the fact that she's not actually an ugly character.

It bugs me (just a little) because it is the same as with a lot of other media. What do all the poor people who are actually ugly in real life do? Are they to be consigned to the notion that a story can only have a happy ending with a magical transformation? Forever dreaming of somehow becoming pretty? In this case I guess we are supposed to imagine she is ugly but spare the viewer showing an actually ugly person? Kind of sends mixed messages with society pushing "it's your inner beauty that counts" but only showing pretty people. I guess (because I can't watch the show) her inner beauty is perverted in this anime so it may not have relevance XD .

I have to mention there are people who take it to the extreme of excluding physical beauty entirely. If you are going to be in a physical relationship it requires physical things. If you have to wake up next to "it" every morning it's going to cause issues if you keep recoiling in horror . A relationship should become more than only physical but the physical remains part of it.

Oh wait there was an old movie that reminds me of this exact subject. It was about a (relatively) handsome guy dating a less attractive girl and the social pressure of his friends saying he could/should date a prettier girl. Basically he didn't want the pretty bimbo but the plain Jane girl who he had made a connection to. It was quite good but I doubt anyone here has seen it as it wasn't a blockbuster picture. Ooooh I wish I could remember the name but I can't XD .

Well that was really off topic for an anime thread. I better stop pondering and shut up now XD.

 

[Part Time Player]

So I just spent the last 20 minutes reading this thread trying to learn a little about anime. I'm not sure what the appeal is exactly. I tried to start watching it without knowing where to start. I've watched Full Metal Alchemist and actually followed the storyline and enjoyed it. My next venture was completely the opposite (Ghost in the Shell) was raved about by anime enthusiast, a "classic".

So is there no hope for me?

 

[Tek7]

Ghost in the Shell, like Akira, has to be understood in the context in which it was first released. Before GitS, most science fiction of the era was "splosions in space" (sorry, Star Wars fans; I like jedi as much as the next person, but Star Wars is more space fantasy than science fiction). GitS opened many, many people's eyes to what was possible with animation, both in terms of art and storytelling. And like Akira, the pacing wasn't awful (an inevitable result of trying to cram several volumes of manga into a feature-length film).

GitS inspired so many anime that followed that it probably doesn't seem very fresh or innovative today. Playing Ocarina of Time for the first time in 2011 could be considered an analogous experience.

That being said, I really did enjoy the first episode of the new GitS series.

But to answer your question: Yes, there is hope for you. When people say, "I don't like anime," I don't think they understand that it's the equivalent of saying, "I don't like Russian music" or "I don't like African paintings." People are summarily dismissing an entire nation's body of work based on a (usually poor and very generic) small sample of works. You may not like GitS, but you might enjoy something like Usagi Drop, My Neighbor Totoro, or Madoka Magica. Anime covers an amazing range of genres, subject matters, art styles, and intended audiences that a person would be hard-pressed not to find something they enjoy if they make an honest effort to learn about what anime has to offer.

 

[Japesland]

And like Akira, the pacing wasn't awful

I'm assuming you meant "was awful," because it was, indeed, awful (the pacing, anyway).

 

[Tek7]

I'm assuming you meant "was awful," because it was, indeed, awful (the pacing, anyway).

I meant to say, "unlike Akira, the pacing wasn't awful." I mistyped.

 

[Kendrik]

Usagi Drop

Bunny Drop is on my list of must watch series. The sheer amount of heart is too good to pass up.

Could take a trip back to 1985 and read Hokuto No Ken/Fist of the North Star for classic shounen. Kenshiro is my dude of dudes. It's a long series, though.

Fullmetal Alchemist is my go-to recommendation for anime. It may not be the most original thing ever, but it's focused, relatively concise, and generally excellent. Also, steampunk and alchemy. Glad you enjoyed it.

If you liked FMA, could give Trigun (another of my high-ranking series) and Cowboy Bebop a run.

Surprising as this may sound, sports animes can actually be really good. Giant Killing is a pretty solid non-shounen sports anime about a failing soccer team and their new coach, a once superstar player from their own stock.

 

[ursen]

I am a little afraid to try anime. Yes, yes, yes I am basing part of that on Speed Racer and part of it's follow up, but also there is such a volume of work with different categories, it would be hard to navigate that mine field. If I am going to stick with appreciating Japanese culture let me stick with ceramics, specifically Raku pottery. Until I can find a definitive guide to anime I will pass, even though it sounds fascinating.

 

[Tek7@Work]

I am a little afraid to try anime. Yes, yes, yes I am basing part of that on Speed Racer and part of it's follow up, but also there is such a volume of work with different categories, it would be hard to navigate that mine field. If I am going to stick with appreciating Japanese culture let me stick with ceramics, specifically Raku pottery. Until I can find a definitive guide to anime I will pass, even though it sounds fascinating.

I recommend starting with Usagi Drop, which you can watch on Crunchyroll (an anime streaming site) here.

Here's the description from CR:

By force of circumstances, a 30-year-old single man with a full-time job suddenly starts raising a 6-year-old girl. While running each other ragged, the two of them gradually grow into a “family”. This is the long-awaited anime version of “Bunny Drop”, the extremely popular and finely crafted comic by Yumi Unita. It’s a heartwarming and entertaining work that naturally depicts child-raising experiences, but also the instantly relatable warmth and noise of being in a family.

The series is short (only 11 episodes), there's no objectionable content whatsoever (no language, no nudity, not even any "fan service"), the characters are very likable, the pacing is manageable (i.e. not too fast, not dreadfully slow), the story is clear (unlike more complex series like Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex), and everyone I know that's watched it has enjoyed it (including my dad).

Usagi Drop is my #1 "starter anime" recommendation. Try the first episode and see what you think. I trust you'll find it far different (and far more enjoyable) than Speed Racer.

 

[Kendrik]

Quite understandable. I prefer to think of anime as a parallel to live-action film and television. In this way, asking "what's a good anime?" is the equivalent of asking "what's a good movie?" Sure, you can ask it. Sure, there are good movies and animes. But there's way too much out there for broad questions to likely yield specific answers that the recipient finds agreeable.

What's a good movie?
Casablanca.
Isn't that black and white... and old?
Yeah. And it's as close to a perfect film as I've ever seen.
What? That's just weird. I can't handle movies without color. It freaks me out.

...this is a condensed form of a conversation I've had multiple times. As our resident self-proclaimed geezer (you silly bear, you), "old" may not be a turn-off, but I think the example still works. I could just as soon refer to Repo! The Genetic Opera, Dredd, or Memento, or less "cult movie" works like Blade Runner or even Star Wars. Good and appealing to a given individual are radically different things, so it's better to focus on the latter.

Now, I'm not trying to say, "you should watch anime!" At this point, I'm writing as much for Part Time Player and anyone else lurking as I am for you, my dear ursen. However, should you want to get into anime, approaching the matter as you would any other art/entertainment medium rather than its own special thing will make it a lot easier for you to get into and for others to help you find something appealing.

It's unfortunate that if you were to go to a Blockbuster, "anime" would be considered a genre with its own section rather than being integrated into the other major film genres. That's just the way American marketers seem to handle anime (as the same thing will happen at Best Buy or anywhere else I've been, really), but it skews perspective of the medium into its own fringe format rather than a method of doing many of the same things live-action films and television series do.

So, if you were to state what kind of viewing mood you're in, movies and TV shows you'd like to find something similar to, characters and themes you like to see, and so on, then you'll have a much better chance of finding something you'll like. Grand guides could be nice to have, but they're likely to be just as overwhelming as looking at the whole catalog of anime out there. Best way, I think, is to find friends or others who can help you find series to try out based on your preferences. You'll also have a lot easier time avoiding the series that are unappealing, fringe, weird, or just plain bad.


That said, I largely agree with Tek on Usagi Drop. I don't know that it's my #1 recommendation (as I'm inclined to give that to Fullmetal Alchemist out of personal attachment), but it would be to those wary of anime.

 

[ursen]

Was looking on Netflix for anime and found Blue Drop. Comments?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Was looking on Netflix for anime and found Blue Drop. Comments?

Don't it's yuri according to the wiki (yuri = lesbian, yaoi = gay) .

I don't want to come off the dissenting one and turn you off from trying anime because there are some good ones, but Japan is freaky(er) and less original than Hollywood. That's not to say Hollywood shows don't copy each other excessively or morals over here aren't wonky only Japan takes it further. It's exacerbated by what the companies choose to push here but Japan still has issues regardless.

I strongly suggest you try the anime Tek suggested before anything else that leaves a bad taste in your mouth because it can be a minefield if you don't know what you are doing. I've watched it and it was literary the anime that gave me hope for normal people existing in Japan. I aggree with Tek it's an excellent starter anime and recommended it to Sarugon a while back for the same reason. Bunny Drop (which is Usagi Drop) was here on hulu as well so you don't have to watch it on Crunchyroll.

Off topic Ponder: Oddly enough Manga/Anime parallels Western Comics/Superhero Cartoons and Movies. The (im)morals and objectionable content often get toned down for moving pictures. I guess because you get a wider audience in moving pictures they sanitize it to a degree. Media I would never read can become acceptable in motion /shrugs.