Souls

M

Mr.Bill

New Member
This came up in the cloning souls thread, so I thought I make a broader thread on the topic.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as a soul? If so, what is it? And what evidence do you base this belief on? Also, share your thoughts on animals having/not having souls.
 
you guys are crazy. trying to prove things scientifically. me personally, i think when we go to heaven, God will decide if we get our pets! i think so... however i DO KNOW there ARE animals in heaven. it says in the bible he has cattle...


-edited: btw, an animal CANNOT be "saved". it is not smart enuff to understand. God still loves them. so i guess it does and it doesn't. impossible issue. maybe something fromthe bible. i don't look it up
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SilentAssassin @ Nov. 12 2004,9:29)]it is not smart enuff to understand
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Well, it's true that animals don't go to heaven because they don't have a soul, not because they aren't smart enough
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You'd be impressed at how smart some animals are, like the sheepdog for example
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]you guys are crazy. trying to prove things scientifically.
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Isn't that what the Church said to Galileo right before they sentenced him to death?



[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Well, it's true that animals don't go to heaven because they don't have a soul
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And you know this how?
 
there's a line between probable, and God's proving it. the church back then was corrupt. jesus wouldn't kill anyone. the church has gone cookoo. they say, WE HAVE POWER! LET'S KILL ANYONE WHO ISN'T US! that is just stpuid. btw, i am not COMPLETELY certain about that statement i made, but i am somewhat sure. animals probably have a soul, but aren't capable of being saved. *i take back that statement u quoted* kinda weirdtopic
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (The Penguin Slayer @ Nov. 13 2004,11:34)]Because souls are a supernatural Entity, it is immpossible to prove they exsist scientifically.
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Then how can you prove animals don't have a soul?
 
we can't period. but we do know that they are in heaven. (cattle scripture i dunno where, but it says he has hills full of cattle or something). we can ASSUME that they have unsavable souls that go to heaven, or they do have savable souls that do go to heaven. <--- those are ALL assumptions.
 
...and these are some of the exact locations in which it tells him!
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432 verses in the KJV regarding the soul 1/12 in the New Testament:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. Joshua 22:5

Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. Psalm 6:4

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalm 23:3

Unto thee, O LORD, do I lift up my soul. Psalm 25:1

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. I Corinthians 15:45

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Ecclesiastes 3:21

This appears to say back to dust for the animals. I love animals and nature, I am disappointed, but then, I am sure Heaven has so many perks we won't need pets
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Hey! Mr. Bill!  Look what the cat drug in!  

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.  Hebrews 13:2  

...well, we are talking D.V. here, but ya' never know  
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1.  
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]What is this "entity" that you call a soul?  An entity is defined as something that has separate and distinct existence and objective or conceptual reality.
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And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into  his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.  Genesis 2:7

2.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You said it resides in the human body.  Where in the human body?  In the brain, heart, kidney?
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      I refer back to the above verse and ascertain that the soul is uniquely a part of each individual as a whole.  I believe that the soul and Spirit combined will be the reason that we will be known in Heaven, even though we have a new, incorruptible body.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  I Corinthians 15:52

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.  Luke 16:23

3.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Is it discernible by any senses?
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      Common sense!  It is the part of you that separates from the body when you die.

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. II Corinthians 5:8

4.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Is it measurable?  (Quantifiable?)
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Soul Searching -
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]MacDougall decided to conduct the death experiments, he told reporters in 1907, because preachers insisted a person's soul -- their identity and personality -- continues to exist after death. If this is true, MacDougall reasoned, the soul must be some sort of space-occupying entity. If MacDougall could measure that entity as it leaves the body, there would be definitive scientific proof the soul exists and it would no longer be a matter of faith.

Fortunately for MacDougall, he knew exactly how one could take such measurements. His medical duties included caring for terminally ill tuberculosis patients at the Consumptives' Home at Grove Hall in Roxbury.

Around 1900, he set up a light-framed bed on a beam scale at the hospital and started asking for consent from his patients to participate in the study. He chose tuberculosis patients, he said, because they were unlikely to jerk and flail around at the moment of death, thus giving a more accurate reading on the scale.

In the medical literature, MacDougall described his first patient as a man of "the usual American temperament." As the moment of death drew near, MacDougall and four other doctors placed him in bed on the scale.

Three hours and 40 minutes later, the beam end of the scale dropped with an audible stroke, MacDougall reported. The man was dead. The doctors independently made calculations to account for weight lost due to moisture in his breath, sweat, bowel movements, urine evacuation and even the weight of air exhaled from his lungs. They agreed the man had lost three-quarters of an ounce that could not be accounted for.

MacDougall's results with other patients were not as clear.

The second patient lost about half an ounce when his face stopped twitching, which wasn't until about 15 minutes after he had stopped breathing, according to the doctor's report in the April 1907 journal American Medicine. The third patient lost about half an ounce, followed by a whole ounce a few minutes later.

The results from the fourth patient, a woman in a diabetic coma, had to be discounted because someone opposed to the experiment interfered with the calibration of the scale, MacDougall said. The fifth patient lost three-eighths of an ounce, gained it back, then lost it again 15 minutes later. The sixth patient died too quickly, only about five minutes after moving to the bed, for MacDougall to get a measurement.

For comparison, MacDougall injected lethal drugs into 15 dogs and found that none of them lost weight when they died, thus supporting his theory. (Dogs, he believed, do not have a soul.) Historical records at the Haverhill Public Library do not offer any clue as to where the doctor got those 15 dogs. MacDougall did tell the Haverhill Evening Gazette at the time that he conducted this part of the experiment in his own barn.

Though a few newspaper reports declared the Haverhill doctor's findings irrefutable proof of the existence of the soul, MacDougall remained skeptical, telling the Haverhill Evening Gazette that further studies needed to be conducted before his theory is accepted as truth. Doctors picked apart MacDougall's results in great detail and engaged him in a debate in the medical literature that lasted several months.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (SilentAssassin @ Nov. 13 2004,9:11)]because "THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO!"
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Please post chapter and verse in the bible that tells us we have a soul and describes what it is.

Thank you.
 
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