Satanism- Your views.

(about the Baal massacre)
If i recall correctly, the time of Elijah was when Judah was oppressed by foreign powers. the rounding up of the priests and killing was probably more political than it was spiritual.
Until recently, religious power and political power were basically left and right hands of a nation. Rulers established authority by branding their kingship as "ordained by the gods/God". So, killing the priests was probably just driving out foreign powers from the land.

Today, however, such a thing is considered barbaric. Back then, it was war.
 
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Eon I dont know enough about Norse mythology to talk about it intelligently. But the point I was trying to make is why should we waste our time on worshipping idols that can neither speak, nor hear, nor see, when we can worship the one true God who can do all of that and more. When we place our faith in God we are placing that trust and hope in someone who has experienced life as a man and knows the pain and tribulations we go through on a daily basis. He knows what is best for us and what is not. He places people in our lives at just the right moment when we can learn from them most and not a moment sooner or later. God is a God of longsuffering. He puts up with a way more than any person on the planet ever could. Yet the whole time He loves more than our own parents love us.

Some questions to Shamans reply....

If God is omnipotent and created all, how is it that your statement "but he has given us more than God have possibly imagine" could be true?

"he brought us knowledge, truth, freedom" : from what I know and have come to understand all the "light bringer" has brought to us is exactly the opposite; deciet, lies, and bondage.

"he punishes the weak and unfaithful for all of eternity" : How can Lucifer punish us when he is at the same time being punished himself?

"he may be the darkness, but he certainly is not the fool" : Ill have to agree with you on this one, after all he is described as being as wise as a serpent. Just look at how easy it is for him to decieve people and lead them to believe lies.

As far as the prophets being rounded up and killed being harsh, ill have to say that in man's eyes, Yes it might be, but in God's eye's there punishment was the wage of their sin. The people of Israel have bore witness to many of God's mighty miracles and acts of power, yet time and time again they turned there back on God, not wanting to wait on Him and His timing. If you read on in that chapter you will also read that the people turned from the idolatry and God returned the rain to them to bring life to the land. Im sure they were thankful for that after 3 years.
 
The Shaman said:
...he punishes the weak and unfaithful for all of eternity, he may be the darkness, but he certainly is not the fool, with knowledge, you are completely the oppisite of a fool, with knowledge you can conquer anything, destroy everything, I'm going to stop there now otherwise I might accidently say hateful stuff.

...And no offense, but ain't that a little harsh? First round up the priests and snatch their religion away then just kill them? I think it'd be better saying ''worship us or die'' or something, quite barbaric imo
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Isn't that a contradiction?

And by saying that satan might be doomed to fail...are you saying that the Bible is correct about the end times and the final battle? Maybe I misunderstood you.

But if what I understood is correct then you are willingly giving up eternity in paradise for a few years of 'power' and 'knowledge' here on earth?
 
That's exactly the way I took your post as well, Shaman. You're claiming that with knowledge "you can conquer anything," but yet you say "he [Satan] may be doomed to fail but..." So to me it sounds as if you believe the Bible is true and that Satan is getting a raw deal. I don't understand the contradiction, though. If you can conquer anything through knowledge then why wouldn't Satan change his eternal destiny?

Also, if Satan can destroy and conquer everything by knowledge, why is the Christian following so much stronger than Satan's? Why has Satan not destroyed God? More information on your exact beliefs would be great. I feel like you're giving us a broad generalization and it sounds like "I follow Satan because he's the underdog."
 
To be honest, I know I might get banned for this post, but I'll tell you peeps why I left God. I respected all religion, I thought the world just wouldn't be the same if it was unified under one religion. So I began to hate the fact that they destroy beleives that stood for millenia, I also hated the fact that most of christianity was and still is tainted by arrogance and corruption, it made me sad when people insulted other relgions, it insults me that you are sent to a pit if you don't believe in a faith, it also made me sad that christianity was almost based on violence and war, not peace and happyness that Jesus promised. I'm sorry if I said any offensive stuff in my post and your able to edit it if you want guys.
 
I don't take offense to that Shaman. In fact, I appreciate your honesty. :D

I can even see why you feel that way. After all, it is unfair that God should create us with free will, then tell us what to do. The thing that we have to trust is that God knows better than we do; that by submitting to Him and accepting His Son as Savior for our inability to live up to the impossible standard He set for us, ultimately He knows best and has rewards for us that far, FAR outweigh any inconvenience inflicted on us here. I mean, I helped to create my own son, and I tell him what to do because of my concern for his character development and physical well-being. I think that God acts similarly, and we just don't see the big picture.

I think your objections to God fall into three main categories (and please correct me if I'm wrong):
1. How can a loving God create Hell?
2. Why does God allow Christians to represent Him so badly?
3. Why does God allow so much evil and suffering in the world?

I'm actually creating a nine-week series on "the big questions" that I'm presenting in my church over the next couple of months, and those are all on the list. If you'd like, I'd be happy to PM you the material for your consideration.
 
"Why does God allow so much evil and suffering in the world?"

very good question, wouldn't mind exploring that more.
 
If God were omnipotent and omniscient, there would be no reason for ANY suffering to take place.

By claiming that God could not have given us free will without suffering, you are doing what you claim nonChristians do all the time, that is limiting the power of God. If you claim that God could NOT give us pain free choice without making us mindless automatons, YOU limit the power of God.

If God wanted us to choose Him freely, he would offer us something other than an ultimatum.

An ultimatum is defined as, "a final proposition, condition, or demand; especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action".

Sound like the choice between heaven or hell to you? There aren't any choices other than those two are there? Therefore, ULTIMATUM.
 
Well, for one thing I never onec said that God couldn't have given us free will without suffering. We (man) were given the ultimate deal. The perfect living area and the entire world to ourselves. We were His best friend. Then we turned away from Him and chose what we thought was best. God was protecting us, yet we stepped into sin and chose to do it the hard way.

It's not an ultimatum by any means. You don't have to choose Him. You can choose yourself and live this fleeting life any way you wish. And yes, without Him, you will spend eternity in Hell. (And I use the word "you" in general terms, not directly referring to you, DV.) But He isn't making that choice, we are. Why would anyone not want to live with their best friend, the creator of ALL things, who gave His life just so that we could be forgiven for our selfish mistakes? Heaven sounds pretty fantastic if you ask me!
 
Well the Angels already rebelled once over Gods treatment of them, I wonder how they would react to the final closing stages of Armageddon?

I suppose this is the thing that confuses me. If I were omnipotent and omniscient then MY 2 i/c wouldn't rebel against me, taking 2/3rds of my followers with him. MY people wouldn't reject me in the Garden I created for them and MY solution to the situation wouldn't be to condemn 95% of the worlds total population to eternal torment.

I don't think it's a very sensible solution.
 
I dont think that Lucifer was second in charge. I think that he was in charge of leading the worship. Im pretty sure that angels were created with the same freedoms as man was. The only difference is that angels were created with FULL knowledge of who God is. They did not have the choice to say he does or does not exist.
 
Actually I believe that Freewill was something that man took, it wasn't given to him initially. Neither was it given to the Angels - that's why they rebelled. Surely you can't think they would have gone up against God unless they really had nothing to lose?
 
Arkanjel said:
I dont think that Lucifer was second in charge. I think that he was in charge of leading the worship. Im pretty sure that angels were created with the same freedoms as man was. The only difference is that angels were created with FULL knowledge of who God is. They did not have the choice to say he does or does not exist.
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Oh boy.

If angels KNEW God existed, and STILL rebelled, what chance do we have?

If the Israelites KNEW God existed, yet STILL doubted him and his power at every turn, what possible chance do we have?

That's got to say SOMETHING about God.
 
Actually I believe that Freewill was something that man took, it wasn't given to him initially. Neither was it given to the Angels - that's why they rebelled. Surely you can't think they would have gone up against God unless they really had nothing to lose?
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Scriptural references please
 
While he's doing that, could you provide me with scriptural reference that states that angels, or man for that matter, has free will?

Thanks.
 
I think sometimes God lets satan torment so our faith will grow ever more stronger in our faith and brews out the men from the boys... Also he tempts us and such because he already knows of his Judgement like in Matthew 8 vs 28 through 32 the demons know that there doomed they attack people because they dont want to be the only ones facing the lake of doom...
 
If God is omniscient, why does he feel the need to test us?

He would know, before the world was created, who would choose him and who wouldn't.

Why the need for all the pain and suffering in between?

Sadomasochism?
 
While he's doing that, could you provide me with scriptural reference that states that angels, or man for that matter, has free will?

Thanks.
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I don't know that much on angels, that is why I was asking for the references. Man however, is a different story. There are many places in the OT and NT that specifically mention making a choice for God or against God. I know you are going to say, "Well that is not much of a choice" but it does show that the Lord has given us that freedom to make the choice.

Romans 8:22:"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Matthew 12:30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Romans 6
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Joshua 24:15And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
 
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