The Shaman
New Member
I'm seeing alot of christians on this and I'm just curious, what do you think of the faith? Please no trolling, flaming, or insults, keeping this to a civilised debate.
Satanism- Your views.
- Thread starter The Shaman
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kevman4christ
New Member
Shaman,
First off you see alot of Christians here because this is a Christian site.
First off you see alot of Christians here because this is a Christian site.
Genesis1315
Ladies
Thanks KevmanPlease consider this the only warning to everyone....this topic can get nasty, I will close it and ban if needed. I will not tolerate any personal attacks on those who follow satanism regardless of Biblical view, religious preferences, beliefs systems or life styles.
Gen
Gandhi
New Member
I think people who believe in satanism just had a bad experence wit christianity, and rebel against it by taking christian values and flipping it.
It takes me back to the story of Marlyn manson, and him growing up in a evagilist school where they told him he couldn't play D&D, and he couldn't listen to rock and roll. He rebeled and twisted his christian teachings to <edited for content: Genesis1315> anger people
Just my thoughts on the subject.
It takes me back to the story of Marlyn manson, and him growing up in a evagilist school where they told him he couldn't play D&D, and he couldn't listen to rock and roll. He rebeled and twisted his christian teachings to <edited for content: Genesis1315> anger people
Just my thoughts on the subject.
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Dark Virtue
New Member
Satanism, like the term Christian, is extremely broad.
It also carries a negative connotation, conjuring visions of goat sacrifices and bloody rituals portrayed by tv and the movies.
It would help immensely if you would give us a definition of Satanism to work with.
It also carries a negative connotation, conjuring visions of goat sacrifices and bloody rituals portrayed by tv and the movies.
It would help immensely if you would give us a definition of Satanism to work with.
The Shaman
New Member
Yeah cheers for that, not everyone in the world takes kindly to our little group.
To be honest I don't blame Manson, there's times where you have to have your freedoms and nobody can't live without rock, it's death to humanity.
Dark Virtue
New Member
And the problem with Lucifer is that the name originated in the Latin Vulgate and not the Hebrew texts, referring to the human King of Babylon and not Satan.
Watcher
New Member
It is widely held that the King of Tyre is in fact equated with Satan in Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. Many of the traits illustrated in the passages would not fit a human King, however, there is little justification from within the text that Lucifer referred to both the King of Tyre and Satan though it is certainly possible. We need to recognize that this is a creative use of imagery as well.
Dark Virtue
New Member
I recognize it as a creative addition to the Hebrew texts.
What happened to not adding to or subtracting from God's word?
What happened to not adding to or subtracting from God's word?
Watcher
New Member
"Lucifer" (the morning star, the planet Venus)is nothing more than a Latin translation of the Hebrew "HYLL" meaning light-bearing, light-bringing...this is merely a translational illustration, not a physical addition to the Word of God. The illustrations for the King of Tyre and Satan are still very much present as I mentioned above, however, cannot be truly proven.
kevman4christ
New Member
No one is adding nor taking away sir.
Well, nobody could be a worshipper of Satan if the bible was true and inerrant, because, frankly, in the bible he's weak, foolish and doomed to fail.
I would imagine that REAL Satanists (if such a cat exists) would have to view the bible as propaganda that is largely errant and false. They would contend that Satan is probably a counterbalancing metaphysical force to Yahweh and that he is, in fact, the good guy.
Looking around at the kinds of things Christians have gotten up to in the world, I have an amount of sympathy for that belief. Very few wars being fought by Satanists right now.
I would imagine that REAL Satanists (if such a cat exists) would have to view the bible as propaganda that is largely errant and false. They would contend that Satan is probably a counterbalancing metaphysical force to Yahweh and that he is, in fact, the good guy.
Looking around at the kinds of things Christians have gotten up to in the world, I have an amount of sympathy for that belief. Very few wars being fought by Satanists right now.
Master~Plan
New Member
wait wait, Isn't Jesus the morning star? (Rev. 22:16)
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[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff
New Member
I would think that Satanists would have to believe parts of the Bible but not others, because I personally wouldn't want to be on the side of things that is destined to lose. So... do Satanists have a set dogma that they believe, or are they like Christians who have a religious text open to interpretation? Is there concensus about the religious text, or is there debate about canon? If it's informal and independent, what do you believe in a nutshell?
Arkanjel
New Member
This can be a loaded question for sure. However Ill refer people to what transpired when The northern kingdom of Israel had fallen deep into idolatry and what would be called today satan worship. God was punishing the northern kingdom for their transgressions by withholding the rain from the land. We all know that if you dont have rain its hard to get things to grow and they certainly didnt have supermarkets back then. The Lord sent Elijah as a prophet to deal with the situation. What transpired is chronicled in 1 Kings 18. I'll give you the cliff notes version of what happened. Elijah gathered all the prophets of ba'al and the prophets of astarte (after which our modern day easter is named). 2 bulls were brought forth and the idolaters were given first pick.
1Kings 18:
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
After several hours of crying out to Baal of course nothing had happened, so Elijah made a few mocking comments. After his comments they proceeded to cut themselves so that their blood was gushing, of course this was to no avail as well. So after this gory show of worship and allegiance to the adversary, Elijah took his turn.
1Kings 18:
30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. 31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: 32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. 34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. 35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
So here we have Elijah's rebuilt altar that is completely drenched so as to prevent any nay-saying from the opposite crowd. And then Elijah prayed.
1Kings 18:
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. 37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
It must have been amazing to those people that all it took was one simple prayer from Elijah to the one true God to get things done. Of course God responded by sending his heavenly fire and consuming the whole thing, so much that the stones turned to ash. Im sure that had to be pretty hot to turn stones into ash. After this display all the prophets of baal were rounded up and killed. The rain returned to Israel and the people turned back to God.
Well I said all that to say this. Satan/Lucifer/Baal/Astarte/insert false god here, are all just that, false gods. The only power they have on this earth is that which God allows them to have. The only power they have over us christians is that power which we allow them to have. He who is in us, is greater that he who is in the world. We as christians are to shine God's light into the dark places.
1Kings 18:
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
After several hours of crying out to Baal of course nothing had happened, so Elijah made a few mocking comments. After his comments they proceeded to cut themselves so that their blood was gushing, of course this was to no avail as well. So after this gory show of worship and allegiance to the adversary, Elijah took his turn.
1Kings 18:
30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. 31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: 32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. 34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. 35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
So here we have Elijah's rebuilt altar that is completely drenched so as to prevent any nay-saying from the opposite crowd. And then Elijah prayed.
1Kings 18:
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. 37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
It must have been amazing to those people that all it took was one simple prayer from Elijah to the one true God to get things done. Of course God responded by sending his heavenly fire and consuming the whole thing, so much that the stones turned to ash. Im sure that had to be pretty hot to turn stones into ash. After this display all the prophets of baal were rounded up and killed. The rain returned to Israel and the people turned back to God.
Well I said all that to say this. Satan/Lucifer/Baal/Astarte/insert false god here, are all just that, false gods. The only power they have on this earth is that which God allows them to have. The only power they have over us christians is that power which we allow them to have. He who is in us, is greater that he who is in the world. We as christians are to shine God's light into the dark places.
Ark, it's a nice story and all, but what was the point you were trying to make?
Here's an example. In the ancient lays of my people Thor, the god of Thunder and closest, I imagine, to Jesus in the Norse pantheon, actually KILLS Satan, who as you know is portrayed as a serpent and a dragon. This is a bit contraversial, because the widest circulated stories about this deed are those of Snorri, who was a Christian. His version tells of Thors failed attempt to kill the Midgard serpent, that ends in the mutual death of them at Ragnarok. However, the older lays all report that Thor actually succeeded in his attempt - meaning that Jormungandr, the wyrm, will not take the field at Ragnarok. This is roughly the same as Jesus slaying Satan so that he doesn't appear at Armageddon.
As Gamli says:
'While Bilskirnir's lord who never nursed treachery in his heart, did quickly destroy the sea-bed-fish with gorge-whale's bane.'
Whilst the oldest lay at all, Ulf's, which has physical evidence dating it to 983, says that:
'Vidgymnir of Vimur's ford struck the ear-bed from the shining snake by the waves.'
Here we have direct proof of Thor slaying Satan. That the Gods of the Einherjar will bring victory to the people and usher in the age where no man need fear evil or his neighbour is certain!
Here's an example. In the ancient lays of my people Thor, the god of Thunder and closest, I imagine, to Jesus in the Norse pantheon, actually KILLS Satan, who as you know is portrayed as a serpent and a dragon. This is a bit contraversial, because the widest circulated stories about this deed are those of Snorri, who was a Christian. His version tells of Thors failed attempt to kill the Midgard serpent, that ends in the mutual death of them at Ragnarok. However, the older lays all report that Thor actually succeeded in his attempt - meaning that Jormungandr, the wyrm, will not take the field at Ragnarok. This is roughly the same as Jesus slaying Satan so that he doesn't appear at Armageddon.
As Gamli says:
'While Bilskirnir's lord who never nursed treachery in his heart, did quickly destroy the sea-bed-fish with gorge-whale's bane.'
Whilst the oldest lay at all, Ulf's, which has physical evidence dating it to 983, says that:
'Vidgymnir of Vimur's ford struck the ear-bed from the shining snake by the waves.'
Here we have direct proof of Thor slaying Satan. That the Gods of the Einherjar will bring victory to the people and usher in the age where no man need fear evil or his neighbour is certain!
The Shaman
New Member
''So what is your definition of satanism Shaman...just the worship of satan or do you have something to ad to it? Are you talking about the satan of the Bible? If so, do you believe the Bible is true? Where do you get your info on satan otherwise?'' I find that I worship the Christian Satan, he may be doomed to fail, but he has given us more than God have possibly imagine, he brought us knowledge, truth, freedom, to me he is a hero, he punishes the weak and unfaithful for all of eternity, he may be the darkness, but he certainly is not the fool, with knowledge, you are completely the oppisite of a fool, with knowledge you can conquer anything, destroy everything, I'm going to stop there now otherwise I might accidently say hateful stuff.
''After this display all the prophets of baal were rounded up and killed.'' And no offense, but ain't that a little harsh? First round up the priests and snatch their religion away then just kill them? I think it'd be better saying ''worship us or die'' or something, quite barbaric imo, Ba'al was a major God in Parthia (I think) who was very much worshipped, it was like taking away their lifelihood..
''After this display all the prophets of baal were rounded up and killed.'' And no offense, but ain't that a little harsh? First round up the priests and snatch their religion away then just kill them? I think it'd be better saying ''worship us or die'' or something, quite barbaric imo, Ba'al was a major God in Parthia (I think) who was very much worshipped, it was like taking away their lifelihood..
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Watcher
New Member
NIV translates it has morning star, however the NKJV is much closer to the actual Hebrew in translating it as "son of the morning." That being said, Jesus is referred to as the "Bright Morning Star" in Revelation.