ROGUE DISCUSSIONS

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MouseOfAslan

New Member
I've been doing a little bit of digging and here's the teensey wintsey, itsey bitsey, tidbits of info I can get:

For dps dmg; the biggest thing you can get is agility. One agility is equal to just barely under 2 Attack Power. For easy reference, it's easier to do 1a=2ap.

For rogues at this time, combat spec seems to be the best dps dealer.

The thing you look for after agility on items, is the attack power. Then fill in with haste, crit. and to hit bonus'.

I'm liking this site that Neliva turned me onto, others might have mentioned it to me, so I'm sorry if it didn't stick in my brain, but that's a big challange for me with my disease (my memory-I really have to write thing down and work on it) http://www.maxdps.com/rogue/combat.php

Also note: pvp gear has been made harder to get by splitting the higher pieces into the arena rewards. If you can't get partners for arena then your going to have a hard time getting gear to improve your dps enough to do instances and raids. Kind of a catch 22 for us rogues.

For me at 80, it looks like I need to do a lot of 25 man Naxx runs, so since my dps stinks and I'm not sure I can get into the guild runs, I'll be looking for pug groups.

The best main hand weapon seems to be a fist weapon. Calimity's Grasp from Kel'Thuzad. (see the site posted)

I'll be checking on builds and maybe doing some experimentations if I have time, but if it's already been shown the best dps dealing, I think I'll go with what is recommended.

One of the things I've noted is that Orcs and Trolls have a 15% reduction in stuns/movement impairing effects. (note for pvp) Therefore, stunlocking them is going to be much harder.

Please add to this thread anything you've picked up on the rogue info train that might be beneficial to us rogues.
 
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As an adder to this, anyone want to help pick this site over and find out 'moderate' gear that is not as hard to obtain on our way to doing Naxx, that would be great. Like the mace Titansteel Bonecrusher seems to be a good moderate weapon and is craftable.

Lets check out which instances give good moderate armor and weapons to help us work our way up.
 
Calamity's Grasp is pretty sweet. I could probably craft you some leatherworking gear if you haven't grabbed up any better blues or epics from instances.
 
Here are a few items which seem 'doable' after reaching 80:
Titansteel Bonecrusher: craftable mace
Titanium Impact Choker: Jewel Crafter
Signet of Edward the Odd: random drop-keep an eye on AH
Band of Kirin Tor: Dalaran Jewelry store... 8,500g less as your rep goes up
Mind Expanded Leggings: Kirin Tor rep item - Revered
Weakness Spektralizer Goggles-engineering item
 
Mouse, you were asking about gems, i can cut them for you on my sons toon. Let me know what you need.
 
Read an interesting bit of information on newer play style. For PVE you want faster daggers to drop the deadly poison on mobs / bosses at a faster rate, as that is one of the dps determiners for instances/raids for rogues. Look for 1.3 and 1.4 speed weapons.

For PvP you want the heavy hitting weapons to do the burst damage, so the 1.8 type weapons. For rogues, PvP seems to work better with daggers, for stun lock, otherwise your toast.
 
After going on a raid and into several instances, my dps was still really bad, so I've decided to try a mutiliate spec. The spec I'm going to try is supposed to be a good balance for both pvp and pve. The only thing I would have to change would be weapons and armor. I'm looking at 42/0/29 and will try that one first.
 
I took this spec out last night and tried both pvp and questing. It is a great pvp spec, but leaves a lot to be desired in questing. If I pulled more than one mob it was a crunch. Combat has the blade fury, killing spree, adrenaline rush and fan of knives for good mulitiple mob pve.

Still, it was great in pvp, so I think I'll keep it and play with it for a while to get a full spectrum of the benefits.
 
one of the best site for rogues is shadowpanther.net this site has broken down every aspect for a rogue, my present combat build is based off his fist/sword. This site is great for building a PVE or PVP build as he scores every item base on PVE or PVP.
 
During my research, recent forum threads I've read on pve dmg has stated that dagger rogues need faster daggers for pve. The maxdps.com shows the opposite. This is very confusing. I'm thinking that the mutilate spec needs the fast daggars for pve and slow ones for pvp; while the combat is more talent spec'd for damage and can use the slower weapons as they have more things like blade flury etc. Thoughts?

I also noticed, while fighting bosses in Naxx, that I was missing a lot; so I might supplement my pve gear with help in that regard... what is better, 'to hit' or 'armor penetration'?
 
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MouseOfAslan said:
During my research, recent forum threads I've read on pve dmg has stated that dagger rogues need faster daggers for pve. The maxdps.com shows the opposite. This is very confusing. I'm thinking that the mutilate spec needs the fast daggars for pve and slow ones for pvp; while the combat is more talent spec'd for damage and can use the slower weapons as they have more things like blade flury etc. Thoughts?

I also noticed, while fighting bosses in Naxx, that I was missing a lot; so I might supplement my pve gear with help in that regard... what is better, 'to hit' or 'armor penetration'?
Click to expand...

Firsh and formost is Hit rating... While duel wielding hit can be a bit complex... I'll try to sum it up;

8% is yellow dmg hit cap (this is all your spiecial attacks, sinister stike, ect.)
25% is white dmg hit cap (You should never reach this)

So, key is to get the base yellow dmg hit cap and live with the misses from white dmg.

Expertise should also be around 24-26 for dadge and parry while fighting in front of bosses.

After these stats are met you can move on to AGL, AP, ect.

Weapons: As far as weapons go, combat is Slow main hand fast off hand.
 
What I've been reading while researching weapons is that since the changes to the rogue mutilate tree and WotLK; faster daggers proc the poison more which is a major part of the mutilate damage and that for mutilate faster daggars is an essential key; but for combat, the slower main hand and faster off hand are still the best.
 
MouseOfAslan said:
What I've been reading while researching weapons is that since the changes to the rogue mutilate tree and WotLK; faster daggers proc the poison more which is a major part of the mutilate damage and that for mutilate faster daggars is an essential key; but for combat, the slower main hand and faster off hand are still the best.
Click to expand...

Correct, but I've also read that Mutilate is no longer the powerhouse that it was. Combat is the raiding spec for now.
 
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