Rogue Build info.

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PBearHBK

New Member
After talking to some of my fellow guildies who are rogues I figured I would post my rogue build on here just to give you other rogues a few things to think about. this Build was actually developed by my guildy in Gnomercy on Eredar, named Krafty. So thanks to him I find this build to be quite "uber" imho.

The two "standard" builds for rogues are either totally spec'd around stunlock (Cold Blood/Prep), or totally spec'd around damage (Seal Fate). Seal fate builds are, generally, a lot more damage in an endurance fight (Read - PvE) - 30% crit rate on backstab, 20% more damage on backstab, plus the additional combo points those crits generate give you an extra eviscerate every 50 seconds (on average). Seal fate builds have several major lacks, though: There are a HUGE number of awesome talents in the stealth tree that you can't get with this build. Improved Cheap Shot. Improved Sap (HUGE for instances AND PvP). Preperation. These are all fight changing abilities. However, the stunlock build, which gets the benefit of those tasty talents in the stealth tree, you can really suffer a DPS hit.

I personally went more with a stunlock build, because I thought it would be better for PvP. And, it is - with all abilities up, in a 1 on 1 fight, you can really wreck shop. But losing out on DPS is always a painful loss to bear. So, I went back to the drawing board.

I came up with a build that's a hybrid between the two of them, and is (in my opinion) wholly better than the traditional stunlock - especially for PvP. This build is best with both a very heavy slow sword/mace, and a dagger. During PvE, you would exclusively use the dagger. But in PvP, you would swap between them depending on your energy needs. Here's the basic setup:

Combat
============
Improved Gouge - 3/3
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2
Improved Backstab - 3/3

Assassination
============
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3
Malice - 5/5
Ruthlessness - 3/3
Murder - 2/2
Relentless Strikes - 1/1
Lethality - 5/5
(This point is a toss up - both Imp Vile Poisons and Imp Instant suck - but Imp instant is more likely to matter in PvP)
Improved Instant Poison 1/5
Cold Blood 1/1

Subtlety
=============
Master of Deception - 2/5
Camouflage - 5/5
Opportunity - 5/5
Initiative - 5/5
Improved Sap - 3/3
Preperation - 1/1
Improved Cheap Shot - 1/2

This gives you *most* of the benefits of both. You get improved sap, which is huge for both instancing and group PvP. You get Imp CS 1, which is the most important one - that allows you to get both a Sinister Strike and Gouge without waiting for an additional energy tick. You get 30% more crit chance with backstabs while instancing, and 20% more damage on each backstab. You get Preperation - which will almost guarantee a win every 10 minutes. And of course, Cold Blood.

Assuming everything lands (which, against anyone without a large dodge or block, it is very highly likely that everything will land), you can keep someone in a stun lock for over a minute, and also get the benefit of the improved backstab - you will get 4 backstabs in that period of time, each with (depending on your gear) roughly a 45% crit chance.

The stun lock goes roughly like so:

(Sword Primary, Dagger offhand)
-Cheap Shot
-Sinister Strike
(Weapon Switch - Dagger primary, Sword offhand)
-Gouge - 5.5s stun/sleep
(You can measure the exact time gouge has been on a player. The swirls around their head will tell you. Each purple swirl is 1 second, followed by 1 second of emptiness. So every purple swirl you see after the first, 2 more seconds have passed. In this case, you would want to do your next move right as the 3rd swirl was ending.)
-Kidney Shot - 5 or 6 second stun (depending on whether initiative works - I counted on it not working.
-Backstab
-Thistle Tea
-Backstab
-Vanish
-Cheap Shot
-Cold Blood
-Eviscerate (Either a 4 or 5 point combo, a little over 85% to be 5 point).
-Blind (8 sec stun/roam)
-(Attack off)
-Preperation
-Restealth (You can stealth after 4 seconds of not attacking).

During this 25 seconds, you will have total control of the fight - if you don't miss. Then, since you just hit preperation, you can do the entire thing again. Then, after you've done it again, you can still keep it going a little longer by cheap shotting, sinister striking, and then eviscerating - for a total of 55 seconds of stun, 3 (4 or 5 point) combos, 4 backstabs, and 2 Sinister Strikes. Against people that will totally wreck you if they break stun - priests and warriors - that's pretty critical.
 
This is a typical rogue build. Pretty much 98% of all the rogues use it in some form or another. I used it until I switched to a assassination\combat build. This build has great utility in PvE.

PvP:

Mages will blink, sheild and poly you when you open with a CS.
Priests and warlocks will DoT you so you can't restealth or vanish
Hunters will mark you removing your ability to restealth or vanish and they can kite you.
Hunters flares will pull you out of stealth.
Warlocks can kite you.
Warlocks fellhounds can pull you out of stealth.
Shamans can kite you.
Shamans have a fire aoe totem that will pull you out of stealth.
Warriors will overpower you with all your dodges.
Free action potions will negate your stuns, catseye elixers\googles will remove your stealth.

Rogues don't have the I win button you think they have in PvP. The theory is good, but it ignores the defenses and abilities of the other classes. I've managed to get the timing right a few times myself, and its awesome when you do. Don't expect it to happen everytime.
 
No it doesn't happen every time and I admitted when I was talking last night that I have problems with Mages and Shamans and Sometimes pallys if they manage to pull a heal or 2 out. But when it does work JUST RIGHT then they can't hurt me. Hunters never seem to bother me nor any of the other classes, just as long as I get the drop on them. Yes this doesn't always work the exact way against them because of their ways to break my stealth or whatever. But even when it doesn't, by the time they are able to break my stuns, it's already too late. There is no such thing as the perfect build, or an "I win" button for any class. But I used to be a combat/assasination build with my rogue til I respecc'd to this, and I have gotten far many more PvP kills since switching to this build. And yes in PvE this build does excel as well. This is just to give some of rogues something else to think about. Just another route to go. And I see far more many combat build rogues than anything else. If you ever want to see what a true rogue can do, just try and see some of the videos that have been made about an un-dead rogue on Eredar named Lizardking (who just changed his name to Sunken for various reasons). He is one of the best I have seen in action. Even though my rogue is a Gnome, I believe Undead rogues are the best race/class combo for rogues, since they can have that immunity to fear without a trinket. Like I said befor, this is just a post to put out some other things to think about, I have been very successful with this build.
 
heh for basicly ever class EXCEPT paladin/warriors an ambush/back stab build works really well, hunter/shamans its a little bit more iffy on, just do BRD runs and get yourself a shaker and with a coldblood ambush you should get 1.5-2k crit depending on your attack power and stuff, then you SS, for about 200-400ish dmg maybe? could crit so now you are at from 3-4 combo points you can do gouge if you want, or just eviserate and kill the person basicly, this build is really effective against mages/warlocks/priests because they are usually dead before they realize what is going on, and you want to always use crippling poison on your mainhand and wound poison on your off hand.

hope that helps you with your PVPing, i have been on the recieving end of this and it stinks.
 
This is steal, my build is very similar to the first post. I have some different in sub, but same number. Backstab/ambush for lyf3. Alot of people complain about " waisted energy". I don't care waht they say can they do 3k+ damage in 3 seconds? (ambush[1000-1500]+backstab[600-1200]+ coldblood eviserate[800-1000])
 
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