Restrictions, rules, laws for being a Christian.

[Corpfox]

Believing in 'your heart' to God, Salvation, no offense, i think its ham(dont know the other word).

There has to be restrictions, rules or laws for being a Christian.

Like, being homo, tv says u cant be a christian for that.

How about having kids? Not sinning? No swearing? No bad stuff? Hey, how about killing, i doubt that!

Yes, yes, i know the expression, "Were not all perfect."

But seriously, you seem like u are...perfect...you sure act like it,err...

Ok, bad enough for what im saying, but tell me, arent their some restrictions, laws or rules that prohibited from being a christian? come on!

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (Corpfox @ Oct. 19 2003,4:27)]Believing in 'your heart' to God, Salvation, no offense, i think its ham(dont know the other word).

There has to be restrictions, rules or laws for being a Christian.

Like, being homo, tv says u cant be a christian for that.

How about having kids? Not sinning? No swearing? No bad stuff? Hey, how about killing, i doubt that!

Yes, yes, i know the expression, "Were not all perfect."

But seriously, you seem like u are...perfect...you sure act like it,err...

Ok, bad enough for what im saying, but tell me, arent their some restrictions, laws or rules that prohibited from being a christian? come on!

"Christians aren't perfect...just forgiven!"

(Bumpersticker on one of my teaher's cars.)

Ah...another good question...how dos one go about being saved?

 

[mrpopdrinker]

To answer your question BigJ. You accept Yeshua/Jesus as your Lord and saviour. Thats about it. Notice Lord and saviour meening he is Lord of your life and you follow his commands, and he is your saviour who redeems you of your sins. They are not rules they are commands. It's called the ten commandments not the ten suggestions or the ten rules.

 

[CCGR]

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 19 2003,7:14)]Rom 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

See!

I knew one of you would offer the Plan for the  Do Nothing Easy Salvation.  

Hey, don't use code words... just tell the young man that if he is a Protestant then there aren't any rules.  Once saved, always saved.  If he can believe for one sincere second, then for the rest of his life he can be Bluebeard during the day and Don Juan at night and Jesus will still be his own Personal Savior -- hanging perpetually on the Cross so you guys can sin all you like, for Free!  Yippee!  I'm saved. You know, I wish that everytime one of you Prots sinned, an angel would drive a nail into each of your hands -- then you would know what you would willingly do to Jesus. It is not Christ's Resurrection that Atones for Sin, but the Pain of the Crucifixion. Paul, the Antichrist manages to lie about everything.

Now, for the Truth.  Christ came not to Save us, but to tell us the Truth.  The Truth is that the Wages of Sin are Death.  Catholics are to not sin.  And when they do sin they are to do penance in atonement.  And when they do not sin, they are to do penance and atonement for those who do.  Why?  Because Christ gave us His example in willingly accepting Crucifixion for the Redemption of Mankind -- that the doors of heaven should no longer be barred against us.   Yet, Christ did not die for the sins of everyone in all future times, as the Prots believe.  The Sins of every generation will have to be atoned for in that generation.  The Rule never changed.  The wages of Sin are death.  Every generation sees new Catholics accepting the Cross of Christ and suffering for the Sins of the Church.  When we join The Church, we take on its Merits as well as its Sins.  Padre Pio, the Italian Saint from back in the mid twentieth Century was a Stigmatic who had fasted for some twenty or thirty years -- and the general public found out about him more or less by accident.  I suppose every generation has one or more Stigmatics -- monks or nuns -- cloistered away in some private cell daily suffering the Crucifixion of Christ day in and day out for years on end -- for the Sins of the Church -- God bless their Christlike sacrifice.

 

[Miscellaneous]

There is no "good works" required for salvation.  True faith produces good works.  So in answer to your question, we don't have any rules made out to follow, which leads to us being a Christian. However, if a person is a... nonrepentant homosexual, let's say, and dies this way, according to 1Cor 6:9, he will not go to heaven.  Does this mean that good works are required for salvation?  No.  If that were true, we would save ourselves.  This means that the nonrepentant homosexual never truly had Christ in him.  He did not have true faith.  Our good works are fruits of our faith.  If one shows no works, then it is a sign that he has no faith.  Faith from God in Christ is a sign of redemption and if one produces no works, he in effect has no faith, and is not saved.

Therefore, good works are not required for salvation but are a by-product of true salvation.  This is the message of grace.  All that it asks of us, it provides.

However, one must be aware of what goodworks are.  Good works cannot be produced without faith (Romans 14:23).

I tried to explain the relation between faith and goodworks here.  Though I did not explain it fully, I tried to show that faith produces our good works, and faith is a sign of our redemption, therefore if one has true faith, he is saved, and will in effect produce good works.  If one does not produce good works, this is hint of he not having faith.

Now one must understand that Christians do not claim to be perfect, just redeemed.  Our flesh sometimes does cause us to sin, but the difference (outward, anyway) between us and the believer, is that we do produce good works.  This shows our inward difference, which is that we have faith.  This shows our spiritual difference, which is that we are redeemed.

 

[CCGR]

if you confess and believe in all your heart...you see God knows who is taking him seriously and who is saying the words to impress others. Once you let Jesus into your heart and let him work in you, you will change and bear fruit, and it will show! You will not want to sin (look at 10 commandments) you will want to live for God.

You have to start with realizing you're a sinner, accept Christ died for your sins, confess and accept him as your savior. The rest will fall in place.

 

[Guest]

For you have petitioned, here than are the rules for being a Christian:
1. Believe in your own heart Jesus/yeshua is The Son of GOd.
2. Believe in your own heart these three are one: THE FATHER, THE Son AND THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.
3. Believe in your own heart Jesus/Yeshua died for the sins of the PREDESTINATED and after three days was raised from the dead in the physical flesh by THE QUICKENING SPIRIT:THE FATHER. AMEN
4.Utter to the sheep of THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH:JESUS/YESHUA IS THE LORD OR THE LORD JESUS/YESHUA.
5.Say  and prove by physical action to the sheep of THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH: i am nothing0.
6.Say and Prove by analysis to THE SHEEP OF THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH: you agree with Paul 100%. AMEN
7. Keep all the sayings of Yeshua Messiah. AMEN AMEN AMEN
That is it!
There are indeed rules.
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 19 2003,6:54)]To answer your question BigJ. You accept Yeshua/Jesus as your Lord and saviour. Thats about it. Notice Lord and saviour meening he is Lord of your life and you follow his commands, and he is your saviour who redeems you of your sins. They are not rules they are commands.

It's called the ten commandments not the ten suggestions or the ten rules.

OK, but didn't Jesus say that the only 2 (so to speak) were to love God and love your neighbor?

So why would a Roman Catholic not be saved?

Also, the 10 Cs are different in Judism than (Protestant) Christianity.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 19 2003,7:14)]Rom 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So Leo is saved.

1. thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus

Check (BTW, a cynical atheist I know has used this to claim a mute may not be saved).

2. shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead

Check again.

3. thou shalt be saved.

Looks like he got it.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (Miscellaneous @ Oct. 19 2003,9:45)]However, if a person is a... nonrepentant homosexual, let's say, and dies this way, according to 1Cor 6:9, he will not go to heaven.  Does this mean that good works are required for salvation?  No.  If that were true, we would save ourselves.  

Good works cannot be produced without faith (Romans 14:23).

but the difference (outward, anyway) between us and the (non? -ed) believer, is that we do produce good works.  

When I read it in context (NIV), verse 11 seems to indicate that 9-10 are speaking of people before being saved, not after.

1 COR 6:9-11

Quote[/b] ]9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Tell me how 11 makes it otherwise.

I see nothing saying anything about "true Christians" here.

As for good works...I thought it was refuted elsewhere? What good works do you do? (not a challenge...a question)

Once again...I do good works too.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (adelpit346 @ Oct. 19 2003,1:06)]

Quote[/b] ]1. Believe in your own heart Jesus/yeshua is The Son of GOd.

Once again, RCs and Protestants believe that.

Quote[/b] ]2. Believe in your own heart these three are one: THE FATHER, THE Son AND THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.

While RCs and most Protestants believe that...I ask you...could you give me a reference on that one?

Quote[/b] ]3. Believe in your own heart Jesus/Yeshua died for the sins of the PREDESTINATED and after three days was raised from the dead in the physical flesh by THE QUICKENING SPIRIT:THE FATHER. AMEN

Except for the predestined part (which is not believed by a lot of Christians IMNSHO), RCs and other protestants believe that too.

AlSo, what if I believe that and I'm not predestined?

Quote[/b] ]4.Utter to the sheep of THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH:JESUS/YESHUA IS THE LORD OR THE LORD JESUS/YESHUA.

Unlike Islam (saying that there is no god but god and mohammed is his prophet), I don't remember anywhere that says that you have to confess it publically.

Quote[/b] ]5.Say and prove by physical action to the sheep of THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH: i am nothing0.

How do I prove it? Is one action enough? Or how many?

Quote[/b] ]6.Say and Prove by analysis to THE SHEEP OF THE LORD GOd YESHUA MESSIAH OF NAZARETH: you agree with Paul 100%. AMEN

Reference, please?

Quote[/b] ]7. Keep all the sayings of Yeshua Messiah. AMEN AMEN AMEN

So I assume you do not eat pork, shellfish, and have no "mixed fiber" clothing?

 

[CCGR]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 19 2003,1:57)]

Quote[/b] ]
OK, but didn't Jesus say that the only 2 (so to speak) were to love God and love your neighbor?

So why would a Roman Catholic not be saved?

Also, the 10 Cs are different in Judism than (Protestant) Christianity.

well if you love God you will serve him, not worship graven images, keep the sabath, and not take his name in vein, respect your parents, not commit adultry

if you love your neighbor you will not lie, steal, covet their possesions, or kill them

so that's the ten commandments broken down into 2

regarding salvation it depends on the individual and not the church they go to. the Catholic services are very repetative and only discuss the gospels mainly. They don't talk about the Old Testament or the writings of Paul. so techncially there are many devout catholics who might not have done the simple steps yet go to church and be good people. There are also people attending good churches that have not made that commitment either. It really depends on the individual.

The Catholics have a different set of 10 commandments, they remove the Thou shall not worship graven images and instead splice Thou shall not covet thy neighbors' possesions and thou shall not covet thy neighbors' wife into 2 different commandments.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 19 2003,3:58)]

(Personally, I would have filed the adultry and honoring parents under the second commandment, but anyway.)

Let's be realistic.

I have never killed anyone.
I have not stolen anything since I quit being a Christian.
I don't covet my neighbor's stuff nor his wife.
I don't bear false witness.
I don't commit adultry (adultry = 1 or more party is married, and not to the other one)
I honor my mother. Moot point on my father...
I don't take god's name in vain

Technically speaking, I do not place any gods, strange or otherwise, above Jehovah.

While I have made "graven images" in the artistic sense of the word (art class...ceramics class type of a thing), I don't bow down to them.

Finally, I do like to relax on Sunday, and I dare say that I keep it as well as most non-orthodox Jews and Christians.

BTW, the difference between the versions of the 10 C can be found here: http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm

Quote[/b] ]so techncially there are many devout catholics who might not have done the simple steps yet go to church and be good people. There are also people attending good churches that have not made that commitment either. It really depends on the individual.

*nods*
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you believe that there are at least some Catholics who are likely to go to heaven (your opinion...knowing that you don't speak for God)

 

[CCGR]

I never thought you were a bad person BigJ, we all sin and break one of the big 10 sometimes in our lives. and it you broke one, you may as well have broke them all...not saying that we should go out and sin some more but we all fall short.

and yes you understood me correctly on salvation being a personal commitment not a religious affiliation.

going to a church doesn't make you a Christian as going to McDonalds doesn't make you a hamburger

 

[Guest]

Item #2 read 1 John 5:7 Jesus is THE WORD. AMEN
Item #3 Predestination is TRUTHE regardless of who believes it, for not all men can by ALL FAITHE EFFECT JESUS CLASS MIRACLES.
So i guess i can by THE FATHER SWEEP ALL ASIDE THAT DO NOT BELIEVE THE WORD OF JESUS THAT CAME OUT THE MOUTHE OF Paul:Romans 8:29-30
And as i HAVE a very good understanding of this subject, i CAN defend Paul on it being of course, he is not here to defend himself. amen
Item #4 And now i know you have NOT a good memory.
Read 1 Corinthians 12:3 Last part of the sentence.
In these fourouay, KJV(old version), Lamsa's, and Holmans.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD JESUS. AMEN
You say it in each letter your write, you say it with each sheep you meet, you pray it always.
i know the purpose of THE BODY OF THE LORD GOd JESUS AND as the last person to enter into it, i always humble myself before THE LORD, and the sheep; placing all of them before me so as i WILL NOT BE A STUMBLING BLOCK TO SO MUCH AS A ONE OF THEM. AMEN
i imitate Paul.
Thankyou Jesus/Yeshua for you MODEL Paul.
item #6 EASY TO SUPPLY YOU THIS INFORMATION:1 Corinthians 11:1
item #7 And now little one you have spouted non-sence.
As we sheep of THE LORD GOd JESUS/YESHUA OF NAZARETH FULLY KNOW, ALL THINGS ARE WHAT GOd HATH CLEANSED CALL THOU NOT COMMON.
The Acts 10:15
Little one it is A GOOD THING YOU HAVE COME TO me, FOR THERE IS MUCH FOR YOU TO LEARN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
Thanks for dropping by big j.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 19 2003,2:57)]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Oct. 19 2003,6:54)]To answer your question BigJ. You accept Yeshua/Jesus as your Lord and saviour. Thats about it. Notice Lord and saviour meening he is Lord of your life and you follow his commands, and he is your saviour who redeems you of your sins. They are not rules they are commands.

It's called the ten commandments not the ten suggestions or the ten rules.

OK, but didn't Jesus say that the only 2 (so to speak) were to love God and love your neighbor?

So why would a Roman Catholic not be saved?

Also, the 10 Cs are different in Judism than (Protestant) Christianity.

Every word in the Bible is the inspired word of God. God the father is the same as the son. So you must follow all of these things. Three is one one is three hence the tirnity.

 

[Guest]

It iS true THAT ALL GOOD WORDS THEREIN INSPIRED BY GOd, but unfortunately, men like mrpop have NOT been educated by THE HOLY SPIRIT to have the gift of ASSEMBLY.
Means you mrpop do not know how it all fits together.
i do not suffer so as you.
THANKYOU YESHUA THE LORD. AMEN
i am nothing0
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 19 2003,9:49)]I never thought you were a bad person BigJ, we all sin and break one of the big 10 sometimes in our lives.  and it you broke one, you may as well have broke them all...not saying that we should go out and sin some more but we all fall short.

I didn't think that you were calling me a bad person.

By the same token, you strike me as one of those, few, people that I would actually be impressed by (aka...a good Christian, as opposed to a "good" Christian).

Please understand, and I have no desire to argue it, that I see murdering someone as being worse than worshiping another deity.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (adelpit346 @ Oct. 19 2003,11:13)]item #7 And now little one you have spouted non-sence.


Thanks for dropping by big j.

Uh, thanks for the references.

Jesus never destroyed the law...he came to fulfill and uphold it.

You're welcome...I think.