Raid Structure

coldturkey49

coldturkey49

New Member
Like most guilds, we are raiding. Like most guilds, we have a lot of DPS, few tanks, and few healers. This is creating a problem with our 6 man raids, because certain people are not getting in due to an over abundance of DPS toons. We even have people from other guilds in our alliance wanting to raid!

So we need a system to make things fair.


ARCHTYPES
You are either a tank, warrior priest healer, non warrior priest healer, ranged DPS, or melee DPS.
For all raids, we need 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 DPS, unless otherwise stated.


SYSTEM
For every raid you show up to ON TIME and participate in, you will accumulate 3 of the following: "I raided point" (IRP). For every raid you do not participate in (please be on time), you lose 1 IRP. You cannot have less than 0 IRP. Also, if no '6 man' 'Rank 40' raid occurs, NO IRP will be gained or removed from anyone.


RULES
All the people who show up for the raid will fill needed slots, until there is an overload of a particular archetype(we are overloading on DPS right now). To deal with the overload, we will compare IRPs. Those with fewer IRPs will have precedence over those with more IRPs.


A CATCH
If Durruck and Ambriana are together, they want to play together. So unless otherwise stated, when we get one of them, we get the other. This of course creates issues, because Durruck and Safry are the only 2 non Warrior Priest healers we have at rank 40 with the proper wards. So if Durruck is the only non warrior priest healer who shows, we need him, which means we have to include Ambriana, which means we have narrowed our DPS slots in the raid from 2 to 1, making an already bad situation worse. I am NOT blaming/attacking Durruck or Ambriana, we had a talk about it and it is cool.


THE LIST (expect updates on this thread for this purpose)

Buffkeo - IB tank - 6 IRP
Serdoc - IB tank - 6 IRP

Didasko - WP healer - 3 IRP
Safry - non WP healer - 0 IRP
Durruck - non WP healer - 6 IRP

Ambriana - Ranged DPS - 6 IRP
Samette - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP
Zebenere - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP

Kutluch - Melee DPS - 6 IRP
Vonny - Melee DPS - 2 IRP (not in our guild, but in the alliance)

* Let me know if I missed you :) Thanks for reeading, God Bless.
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Just an explanation on my part. I feel a bit like a jerk for making such demands, but as Ambri & I only have 2-3 hours to spend time together before bed on any given night, I don't want to sacrifice our entire evening together. We play the same game together for a reason - it's something we can enjoy together. We were willing to play separate in WoW for a short time, but found that it wasn't as much fun if we weren't there together.

I do have my WP leveled close to 40, and I would be fine with taking him to a 2nd run, if someone would like to organize it. I can start in Bastion or rank up on my own and be ready for a Sigmar/Warpblade soon... but... that run would have to happen at a time that Ambri's not home, for the same reason. If anyone feels like organizing that run, let me know and I'll have my toon ready. I do have a weird work schedule, so there's always that to contend with, as well.
 
I have a LOT to say so feel free to ignore me if you're not a raid leader. :p

These 6 man raids, I blame mythic, are quite frustrating. I think I was one of the first members ready to get Sentinel equipment in our guild. I've tried several times to form or join crypts/warps PUGs with no success. So if I seem testy when not getting a spot in a crypts raid, it's because I think things are not fair when I look at it subjectively. Objectively, I know that no one is in the wrong and I am thankful for the raid leaders work.

Not a serious complaint, but the time issue frustrates me a little. I don't care if nothing is done but I need to say it. The DAOC rules for showing up for raids were quite different because in the DAOC days, raiding was simply just zerging through areas and following a few leaders. There was typically a few minutes allowed for people to gather up after raid scheduled time, a prep talk, and then off we went. Raid leaders may find it frustrating when people show up a few mins late (I've heard this from another game too), but people have kids to feed and settle down, homework to finish, and TV programs to finish watching at 8:59 :p. It makes for a frustrating start logging in at 9:02 and everyone is already going down the stairs in the left wing of BS.

I have some input on the raid system so please don't skip these paragraphs! I honestly think that guild members should have preferential treatment with the point system. I think it is important to value the members of our community first. I personally would be frustrated if I started seeing a lot of SilverBlades filling up our raid spots when other Redeemed have to sit out just because of IRP rules.

Another suggestion is that I would encourage the use of the sign up system on the guild calendar to reserve spots. That is, for people who are qualified by the IRP rule system and promise to show up. That way, I and others don't have to bother logging in because we hoped that the guy who has less IRPs doesn't show up.

That being said, I would like to suggest, and even volunteer my time to organize an alternate raid when crypt raids are going on. So instead of trying to take keeps, how about the leftovers meet up with me in Bastion Stair? There are a lot of us with full BS influence that can go in and take out a boss and give us another shot at warded eq. I don't know how to get there but am willing to learn it and make my gaming experience happier.

I could go on but that's probably enough for now... Many thanks to Ilya and Kutluch for their work thus far. Also, thanks for puttin up with my griping! Without Omlette and Mushroom around to remind me of scripture, you're just gonna have to put up with longer periods of it. :D
<eol>
 
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For every raid you do not show up to ON TIME or particiate in, you lose 1 IRP.
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So, people that are late are rewarded? That doesn't sound right. Set a time/place to meet; select those who go from those present (their IRP is increased); the rest that are present have their IRP decreased; anyone not present at that time, ie, tardy etc, do not get their IRP adjusted. Allow IRP to go negative or start everyone out with 10.

I honestly think that guild members should have preferential treatment with the point system. I think it is important to value the members of our community first. I personally would be frustrated if I started seeing a lot of SilverBlades filling up our raid spots when other Redeemed have to sit out just because of IRP rules.
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I agree. Since there is a max 6 allowed, Redeemed should get first pick; fill holes with alliance afterward. These raids aren't like rvr where there is no solid max number allowed.

Another suggestion is that I would encourage the use of the sign up system on the guild calendar to reserve spots. That is, for people who are qualified by the IRP rule system and promise to show up. That way, I and others don't have to bother logging in because we hoped that the guy who has less IRPs doesn't show up.
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I have to disagree with this, even though it is probably a better way to do it. I don't know from night to night when/if I can log in. That makes it difficult for me to sign up for any event. If you choose to do this, please don't implement a first-sign-up, first-selected method. That is unfair to those who aren't online at the time you create the event.

I feel a bit like a jerk
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If this weren't such a serious topic, I'd comment on this. :D
 
Zeb you are welcome to help run Bastion Stair when you can. Our "younger" members still need it.
 
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I'm concerned about the same thing Sam pointed out. If you deduct points for being late, yet always take the person with the lowest points, you wind up encouraging being late.

The system seems to encourage non-participation. I see where you're going with it - you want to give people a chance to get gear, even if they don't play much. That in itself isn't bad.

Here's another thought for the 6-man instances - award points for attendance. Those with the highest points will be chosen for the group. If they win a piece of armor, reset their points back to 0. This would allow for those that haven't gotten something yet to cycle into the group. Since we're lacking on tanks/healers we may have to have some standard members there until we can recruit more of those classes.

Speaking of that, since we have a huge need for tanks/healers, perhaps we could consider recruiting announcements on some of the forums?
 
You are misinterpreting what I am saying Sam. Late people are not 'rewarded', if you don't show up on time and you can't get in because your archetype is filled up, you will loose 1 IRP because you won't be raiding.

As for the system itself, it is simply meant to give everyone a fair shot at the raid.

And lastly, as for your 'suggestions', I did not ask for them :)
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Also, alliance members will be treated the same as far as the raids are concerned, I am not playing favorites.

The reason I can show with an example. The one raid where we had one Sacred Silver Blade, Buffkeo gave a scripture address to cheer us up, and I quoted the text. That combined with our constructive and Christ like attitude is a good opportunity to shine the light inside us. And for this reason alone, I will not be playing favorites.
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Took out Sigmar Crypts, 1rst try, on Saturday 7th.

IRP UPDATE

Buffkeo - IB tank - 9 IRP
Serdoc - IB tank - 9 IRP

Didasko - WP healer - 6 IRP
Safry - non WP healer - 3 IRP
Durruck - non WP healer - 5 IRP

Ambriana - Ranged DPS - 5 IRP
Samette - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP
Zebenere - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP
Zandaris - Ranged DPS - 3 IRP

Kutluch - Melee DPS - 9 IRP
Vonny - Melee DPS - 1 IRP
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I think a grace period would not be a bad thing to add in. Maybe 10 minutes or so after the hour or ask people who are qualified to go be logged in by 9:00 and be ready to leave at 9:15.
coldturkey49 said:
And lastly, as for your 'suggestions', I did not ask for them :)
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Allow me to suggest you look up the meaning of humility.

:D
 
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Well Kut, when a tank arrives to the raid who is Rank 40 and has 4 wards and less IRP than me, he can/should take my place. It is only fair.



And as for you Odale, I looked up humility:

Pronunciation:
\hyü-ˈmi-lə-tē, yü-\
Function:
noun
Date:
14th century
: the quality or state of being humble
 
I would like to apologize to you, Ilya, for insinuating that you are not a humble person.

I am grateful as everyone in the guild and alliance is that you take the time you do to organize these things.

I apologize for that, it was extremely rude and ill thought of.

I am sorry.
 
Oh, that's not what I meant, Ilya. I mean what happens when neither of us can go to the raid, because people with less IRP's come than us and want in? How do we determine who leads out of who is going?
 
First of all, I appoligize for ignoring your suggestions. Out of line. I have given all the feedback more attention.

I have already addressed the 'late people get rewarded' thing, just a miss-interpretation. Late people will not be rewarded.

I also addressed the issue of giving guild members status over alliance members, that will not be happening.

As for altering IRPs once someone gets a piece of loot, I don't think it's fair to the person who raids once and gets lucky. That, and the loot system is so horribly bugged right now we barley get anything we can use.

Another concern is starting to 'on time' for people who are late. If I bump the raids back to 6:05 PM, the people who are showing late now will show up at 6:10 PM, and still be late. So officially, I will not be moving the raid times back. However, things are so hectic right now we usually start a minute late as is.

Another concern, our lack of healers and tanks meaning certain people by definition will raid more than others. Very true, but that is just the way it is. Amythest seems to be Rank 40 and have 4 lesser wards, so hopefully he can raid at least 1 a week, thus alleviating the tank strain a bit. Also, Safry hit 40 and has the needed gear, so that will help out the healer strain.

Thanks for the input.
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Took out Warp Blades on Monday 9th.

IRP UPDATE

Buffkeo - IB tank - 12 IRP
Serdoc - IB tank - 12 IRP

Didasko - WP healer - 9 IRP
Safry - non WP healer - 6 IRP
Durruck - non WP healer - 4 IRP

Ambriana - Ranged DPS - 4 IRP
Samette - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP
Zebenere - Ranged DPS - 0 IRP
Zandaris - Ranged DPS - 2 IRP

Kutluch - Melee DPS - 12 IRP
Vonny - Melee DPS - 0 IRP
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