Questions

Big J

New Member
These are questions from http://www.jhuger.com/biblethumpers.mv

I would like to hear anyone's answers.  

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1.  Where in the bible, if anywhere, Does the Bible say it is the Word of God?

2.  How do you know this applies to the Bible as we know it today, and not some other collection of books? For example, how do you know it refers to the gospels of John, Mark, Luke and Matthew, and not the gospel of Simon, Thomas, and Peter?

3.  The Bible, The Koran, The Book of Mormon, and other books are supposedly the word of God. Many other works are supposedly inspired by God, gods, god-like aliens from the Pleiades, etc. Why should I accept your favorite, and not one of the others?

4.  If you claim that there are no apparent flaws in Bible, and thus there is nothing to explain, Why do I see flaws?

4A.  If your answer involves a defect in my mental ability, Why is it more likely that I suffer from this disorder than you?

4B.  If your answer involves a lack of faith on my part, how does this apply to Islamic fundamentalists, who are quite willing to die for their faith?

If you claim the King James Version [or any other version] is linguistically flawed due to archaic language and / or poor translation:

5. Why did God allow this to happen?

6.  If God allows flaws in some versions of the Bible, Why should we presume that he corrected any version?

7.  Why should I accept your favorite version as being the one version God decided to correct?

If you claim it requires extensive interpretation, study and research to properly understand the Bible:
8.  Why did God make his word so hard to understand?

9.  Why should I accept your favorite interpretation as being correct?

If you claim it requires divine revelation to properly understand the Bible:
10.  Why is your personal revelation endorsing the Bible superior to my personal revelation condemning the Bible?

11.  Why should we accept divine revelations that point to the Bible while rejecting revelations that point to the Koran, The Vedas, The Kalevala, or any of countless other texts?

12.  If revelation is a reliable source of information, why not just rely on it, instead of a book?

If you claim apparent contradictions are the result of metaphoric use of language:
13.  Why did God make his word so hard to understand?

14.  Why should I accept your guess as to which parts are metaphoric, and which are literal?

15.  When I use metaphor, I use it to get around the limitations of language and the human mind. If you assume God uses metaphor for the same reason, why would he have created those limitations in the first place? If you assume God uses metaphor for a different reason, please explain that reason.

16.  In forty years do you expect your discrimination against gays be more or less embarrassing to your grandchildren than your grandparents' discrimination against blacks is to you? You may, of course, skip this question as irrelevant if you're a racist too.

17.  Why did God sacrifice Himself to Himself so that He could correct a mistake He made Himself?

18.  How does the crucifixion count as an appropriate sacrifice? Jesus spent a few hours, maybe a day, in agonizing pain; but it was no greater pain than millions of others have suffered. If Jesus really is God, then He knew exactly what was happening, and exactly how long it would last. When it was done, He supposedly ascended to heaven and became the all-powerful ruler of the universe. This is infinitely greater compensation than even the faithful will receive, and infinitely less torture that the damned will receive.

Extra-Credit Questions:
19.  If you answered any question beginning "Why did God..." by saying it is not our place to question God, explain why you feel free to question his decision to make me an Atheist.

If you only have time to answer one Question:
20.  There are many books that are so good that once I start reading them, I can't put them down. The Bible is not one of them. How is it that God, or an author directly inspired by God, does not write as well as (for example) Michael Crichton?
 
Actually the other nineteen questions are called FILLER, AND the one single question the "author" wants to be answered is number 16.
The purpose of the other 19 is to see if you know all things. If you do not then HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY BE CORRECT ON NUMBER 16.
So then i will to my advantage SKIP the other questions and dive into #16.
Here is the answer: THE LORD GOd JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH WILL HAVE RETURNED TO EARTH WITHIN 37 YEARS( i will be happy to explain) and so the business about me having to explain anything past the 37th year is not necessary.
i will let Jesus Himself answer it for you. amen
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.AMEN
i do love 20 questions....let's play again real soon.
 
Dear Big J,

The Bible is a Reference Material. The Protestants created the Doctrine of Word of God in order to make the Letters of Paul, which the Catholic Church had treated as an odd curiousity, Equal with the Gospels concerning Christ. By saying it was All the Word of God, Paul is set up as a God -- their Protestant God.

The Catholics had always recognized the problems inherent in the Scriptures. We published the stuff and so we were aware of their short comings and inconsistencies. Remember, there was no printing press, and the Church didn't pretend to distribute the Bible. What the Church did was Propagate True Doctrine as it was understood through Revelation, Tradition, and the Knowledge of the Saints. The Early Church was rich in Saints and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit. We knew what Correct Doctrine was.

Oh, and I should hope you are crossing your fingers that nobody answers all 20 or 20b of your questions. What would you do? -- go back and answer them point by point. A lofty mind doesn't crawl around in the details like a maggot. But, just wait, five or six of these guys will match your list with their own -- slithering around in the trivial details.
 
funny but you still worship mary as a godfigure.

4. If you claim that there are no apparent flaws in Bible, and thus there is nothing to explain, Why do I see flaws?

i would think if the person is so learned they could use proper hermanutics.

As far as the racism, my grandparents were not racists, and my grandchild and their grandchild will know that gays are unBiblical and that we should love the person, and abhor the sin, yes that means gays can not be married.
 
If I actually believed for one moment that you would be interested in hearing any answers, I would post them.

1. These are not your questions. As you have not put any thought into generating the questions, there is no reason for anybody here to believe you would put any thought into reading and attempting to understand any answer given.

2. There is an inequality to any debate and discussion in this topic. You simply provide canned questions and responses while any body giving any answer will actually have to put thought and wisdom into it. Not that I feel anything should be fair in this life. I do believe that because you have put no thought into generating these questions, you really don't care what the answers are.

3. And because there is no reason to believe you would care about any answer given, this thread should be locked, deleted or what ever. It is nothing more than a potentially antagonistic thread. I see no reason as to believe that you have no other intent in posting that list of questions other then for antagonistic reasons.
 
Wow.

I was actually excited when I saw there were more responses when I got on here.

sad.gif


I guess that is what I get for being honest and revealing that I took some questions someone else thought of.

I suppose that makes me worse than all of you who provide canned answers to my and timor's questions. Did I ever say "your response is canned, I will ignore it?" No. I may push it further, I may disagree, but I've never pulled what Canadian Bacon did.

Look, I cut down how many questions he had. I've said ignore the gay one. Heck, I don't even say that anyone has to answer them all. They were questions I had, just in a much more succinct way.

But, hey...think the worst. When I see God eye to eye, I will remind him that Canadian Bacon had the chance to save me, and instead...he spit on me.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 22 2003,8:40)]1.  If you claim that there are no apparent flaws in Bible, and thus there is nothing to explain, Why do I see flaws?

A.  If your answer involves a defect in my mental ability, Why is it more likely that I suffer from this disorder than you?

B.  If your answer involves a lack of faith on my part, how does this apply to Islamic fundamentalists, who are quite willing to die for their faith?

If you claim it requires divine revelation to properly understand the Bible:
2.  Why is your personal revelation endorsing the Bible superior to my personal revelation condemning the Bible?

3.  Why should we accept divine revelations that point to the Bible while rejecting revelations that point to the Koran, The Vedas, The Kalevala, or any of countless other texts?

If you claim apparent contradictions are the result of metaphoric use of language:
4.  Why did God make his word so hard to understand?

5.  Why should I accept your guess as to which parts are metaphoric, and which are literal?

6.  Why did God sacrifice Himself to Himself so that He could correct a mistake He made Himself?

7.  How does the crucifixion count as an appropriate sacrifice? Jesus spent a few hours, maybe a day, in agonizing pain; but it was no greater pain than millions of others have suffered. If Jesus really is God, then He knew exactly what was happening, and exactly how long it would last. When it was done, He supposedly ascended to heaven and became the all-powerful ruler of the universe. This is infinitely greater compensation than even the faithful will receive, and infinitely less torture that the damned will receive.
I may ask the others again, but I'll cut down the number of questions (down to 7).

I am serious. Just because I pulled them from another page, does not make them any less questions I have as well.
 
Canadain bacon cant save you, you have to save your self, its a personal decission people can only guide you, dont try to blame your enternity in hell on others.
 
You do realize, you only have two questions, 1 and 7.

The reason questions A through 6 exist is because they make assumptions about how question 1 will be answered.

The questions A, B, 2,3,4,5 and 6 all make fatal assumptions:

That the answer to number one would involve:
   A.  You having a mental defect,
   B.  You lacking faith,
   2.  Divine revelation,
   3.  Divine revelation,
   4.  Some of the bible is literal, some is metaphoric,
   5.  Some of the bible is literal, some is metaphoric,
   6.  That some how God made the mistake.

Question number 1 deserves an answer.  Alas, I have no idea of what flaw you see, or how it has ever been explained to you.  Maybe you see a flaw because the events have not been properly explained to you, or ever explained to you, maybe its because you refuse to accept the explaination.  I have no idea why you see flaws, I have no idea what flaws you see. Thus, there is not point in answering it.

Question number 7 also deserves to be answered.  But in what capacity.  Is the rationalization that is included in the question your own thoughts?  Is that how you understand Jesus' sacrifice or is that how somebody else understands it.  If these are not your thoughts, then why shall I put the effort into addressing them. I would rather put my effort into answering your questions and your thoughts, and not those of a person who dreamt up questions that were meant only to trap people and to stir up a hornets nest.

I don't fear you little threats.  You can't tell God what he already knows.  I don't answer to you, I answer to God.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 23 2003,2:02)]
1.

You are looking for the flaws instead of the message within. The Bible is the inspired word of God. Written by man, translated numerous times. Is it possible that some things got left out/changed? Most likely. We have the orignial texts to go by and the original languages to help determine meanings that English doesn't cover. Jesus said that heaven and earth shall pass away but his words won't. We still have them today, the message is still the same.

Lack of faith? well I'm not sure your take on how much credit you do give the Bible, or how you think we got here and what happens when we die. But regarding wacky people dying for their faith all religions have them. We're no different, but many people have died trying to print out the Bible which is sure more peacful then blowing up a bus.

2.

The Bible has many good stories and explains where we came from, our God and his son who died for us. That's what it means to us. I don't care what you think of it, I don't expect you to hold it as high as we do but you have to admit it's kinda facinating??

3.

it's prohpesies have been fufilled where other holy books haven't.

4.

Christianity can be as hard or as easy as you want it to be. The basic message or way into heaven is enough for a child to understand. Understand that you have sinned, accept Christ, and make him your Lord. Change should follow.

Now there are people who study the Bible for lineage, prophesy, etc etc. Those are things I don't spend too much time on. There are Bibles that are easier to read for teens and the children's Bible etc. I'm sure kids don't care about the begats but the gospels aren't too hard to grasp.

5.

You don't have to accept ours. I tend to leave that with the scholars which none of us are but we may hear them or reference them a bit.

6.

So you would rather be a worship robot than make your own choices? What is more meaningful to you? Respect you earn or respect you brainwash? It's not God's mistake it's ours. I don't know why God required blood shed to cover sins, but it's not needed anymore since his son took our penalty so we can be clean in front of God almighty.

7.

In the OT, a perfect sheep was required. No blemish. Jesus was perfect, sinless. (lamb of God)

Jesus' death was indeed cruel and here's a break down

Following the last supper, Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemene. As He entered the garden, He left from His disciples to pray. This was probably the most traumatic experience Jesus faced during the next l2 to l8 hours. Who could possibly comprehend the anguish that Jesus experienced as he submitted His will to that of the Father--as He anticipated His separation from the Father when He would bear the sin of the world?
This night, He would face the ultimate spiritual struggle. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly. His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down (Luke 22:44). This bloody sweat is known medically as hematidrosis, and in the gospels is mentioned only by the physician Luke. This phenomenon has been documented on other rare occasions among persons undergoing extreme psychological or physiological stress. It is caused by tiny capillaries under the skin surface distending and ultimately going into arterial spasm with necroses, and rupturing into the sweat glands. This results in a bloody secretion--blood mixed with sweat--exuding through the pores of the skin. The loss of this bloody, sweaty mixture would create profound dehydration and early stages of shock.

This could easily explain the fact that an angel appeared to Jesus to strengthen Him. Certainly the intercessory ministry of this angel empowered our Lord to sustain the brutal trauma which was yet to come.

After this, Jesus looked toward Jerusalem and saw the torches illuminating the hillside. He could clearly identify the soldiers, high priests, some members of the Sanhedrin, and his own disciple, Judas, leading the mob to arrest Him. They evidently feared a rebellion of the people if they attempted to take Jesus openly.

Not only had the conspirators judged the trial before the arrest, they literally participated in the actual arrest of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemene. Jesus was then taken to the high priest’s house at night. This was in direct violation of Jewish law. According to Mosaic law, no trial was to take place on the eve of the Sabbath or holiday or on a holiday itself. All four Gospels indicate that this was on the eve of the Sabbath, and more than that, on the eve of the Passover.

The first trial occurred sometime after midnight and was concluded before 3:00 a.m. The Gospels record that Jesus was led away with His hands bound--the same hands that had healed the sick, opened the eyes of the blind, and raised the dead. But this was only the beginning of the of what Jesus would be subjected to. Before Annas, Jesus was directly cross-examined in contradiction to the Jewish law. The Sanhedrin and Council were not allowed to apply duress and pressure during a trial, and confessions were not accepted by Jewish law. The law itself required two witnesses to bring accusations, but Jesus was being directly intimidated and cross-examined before Annas. In fact, one of the officers of the high priest accompanying Jesus struck him with his hand because of the manner of Jesus’ reply to Annas.

In Luke 22:63-64, we are told that the man holding Jesus mocked Him, beat Him, blindfolded Him, and asked Him to prophesy. The same Jesus who had performed so many miracles and who had been so willing to gather these in His arms, now sustains the indignity of their mockery and ridicule before being led away to Caiaphas and the full Sanhedrin.

During the course of this second trial, even the charges against Jesus were changed because of the inability of the false witnesses to agree in their testimony. In other words, Jesus was tried for an alleged plot to desecrate a national shrine (He had claimed to be able to tear down the temple and rebuild it within three days). Caiaphas as the high priest now took an active role in the interrogation of Jesus. He commanded Jesus by the living God to speak. By Jewish tradition, this was a compelling oath which a suspect could not refuse. When all else failed, Caiaphas demanded a complete confession. Following the testimony, he rent his clothing. This Middle East custom depicted great emotion and undoubtedly prejudiced and influenced the other members of the Sanhedrin.

The trial was so prejudiced, it was beyond any consideration of mercy. Jesus then was taken before Pilate early in the morning. While being very liberal concerning the trial by their own Jewish law, the accusers now resume their legalistic stance by not entering the Roman courtyard and thereby defiling themselves on the eve of the Passover. This indicates their extreme concern over the law versus the more important weightier matters, just as Jesus had accused them.

As we see Jesus now, He’s exhausted from lack of sleep, the two preceding interrogations, abuse, dehydration and ridicule. Yet He stands before this Roman governor with supernatural power. His compassionate, soul-searching countenance is bowed in humility. No reviling or bitterness comes from His parched, swollen lips. Indeed, He makes no self-defense at all.

Now Pilate, in an attempt to appease the mob, has Jesus scourged. This was not ordinarily part of a crucifixion. And there was a difference between Jewish and Roman law in regard to it. Under Jewish law, scourging was limited to 40 lashes. The Jews were so intent that the law be upheld, the beating often was stopped at 39 lashes to be sure that a miscount had not taken place. Roman law knew no such limitations. The prisoner was beaten to the verge of death as measured by a rapidly increasing, thready pulse and/or a shallow, irregular respiratory rate.

Wooden-handled leather whips with three strands were most frequently used. Each strand had a small piece of bone or metal attached to the end which would chip and gouge out pieces of bone and tissue with each lash as it was withdrawn sharply backwards. The prisoner was tied across an object that would support his weight after he had lost consciousness. This position also provided easy access to areas of the legs, arms, thighs, and upper chest. Such an act stripped the skin into long, ribbon-like segments, causing profuse arterial bleeding.

The crown of thorns was now pressed deeply into His scalp by the soldiers. This resulted in additional arterial bleeding which added to the extreme reduction and contraction of His total vascular space, thereby deepening His state of shock.

A purple robe was then thrown across Jesus’ shoulders and back. It perhaps acted as a temporary compressive dressing, helping to congeal some of the blood pouring from the gaping lesions across His thorax, abdomen and legs. The gospel narratives continue the description of the atrocity, including the mockery by the soldiers, Jesus being spat upon, beaten with reeds, ridiculed, and hailed as the "King of the Jews".

The Messianic passage of Isaiah 50:6, a Messianic passage states, "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair. I hid not my face from shame and spitting." Anyone who has had any hair pulled from his face knows the pain and resultant swelling.

Then Jesus came forth, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, "Behold the man" (John l9:5). As Jesus stood before the mob, no doubt He experienced the clammy, lifeless sensation of advanced shock. Medically, Jesus would demonstrate cold, pale sweaty skin. The mucous membranes would be bluish and cyanotic and His countenance would be haggard and drawn. His reflexes would be be depressed, His pulse pounding, His respiration shallow. His physical strength would be at the point of non-existence.

Pilate now caves in to the manipulation by Jewish leaders, and Jesus is condemned to death by crucifixion. The purple robe is stripped away and Jesus is given the cross to bear to the place of the skull, Golgotha. The rough removal of His garments would be similar to the careless removal of a surgical dressing, causing the wounds to bleed freely once more.

Atonement throughout the Old Testament, beginning in the Garden of Eden where God made skins to cover Adam and Eve following their sin, required the sacrifice of blood to provide the covering. Blood atonement reoccurred as the theme through the temple worship. And now in Jesus we have the profuse loss of blood as the atonement for our sins.

It is interesting that the gospel writers simply indicate that Jesus was taken to the place of the skull and there crucified. We are left with no further information other than that which can be deduced from the writings of Roman and Jewish historians. This was such a common practice that no elaboration was necessary.

The act of crucifixtion was practiced in the Palestinian area from approximately 200 B.C. until 300 A.D. when it was abolished by Constantine.

Many of the crosses of Jesus’ day were shaped like the Greek letter Tau. The upright post, the stipes, was permanently fixed in the ground at the execution site, and the cross beam, carried by the condemned, would be joined to the stipes by a joint which locked into a self-retaining position. This expedited the work of the executioner. The cross beam weighed as much as l00 pounds. So if Jesus carried only that portion of the cross, it is no wonder that He fell.

As Jesus arrived at the execution site, the beam or cross was thrown upon the ground and Jesus was roughly thrown backwards onto it. His arms were extended. The executioners would be careful not to draw his arms to a fully extended position, for that would hasten His death.

Large triangular construction-grade nails then would be used to secure Jesus to the cross. The Bible states that these were driven through His hands. Many authorities believe that they were driven through the lower portion of his forearm near the wrist. There they would compress the median nerve trunks to the hand. These nerve trunks then would impinge on the tendons of the palm causing the thumbs to bend toward the palm.

It is interesting to note the Latin word for hand, manus, is used by early writers to designate the part of the wrist which joins the hand. If the nails were driven through His hands, as the Bible says, it is not clear how this kept Him suspended, for a nail through the center palm would tear through it.

Next, with the nails in place, Jesus would be literally hoisted upright. His feet would be secured with a single nail--the left foot extended slightly over the right with the knees flexed, and the nail driven through the arches of the feet.

The Romans had perfected this brutal art to where the length of time required for the condemned person to die could be computed by how much flexion was left in the knees to expedite breathing. His position on the cross forced a condemned person into a horribly cruel exercise. In order to breathe and to relieve the pain in the arms as the body sagged downward, he would have to push up on the nail in the feet forcing an up and down slithering motion upon the cross until he expired.

Dangling by the arms in this position would result in severe muscular pain in the upper extremities. It also would cause a progressive pain from joint separation. Continual hanging by the arms would gradually result in paralyzation of the intercostal muscles of the thoracic wall. As a result, air could be drawn into the lungs easily but could not be exhaled. As carbon dioxide accumulated, progressive degrees of asphyxiation would occur. Accumulated carbon dioxide and lactic acid would create an intense muscular hyperexcitability and violent muscle spasms throughout the body.

As the suffering sensation became overwhelming, the condemned man would be compelled to push up on the nail in his feet to gasp for breath. It is undoubtedly in this position that Jesus uttered His famous seven last words. It is indeed amazing, as Jesus’ physical body was ravaged by shock, exhaustion, incredible thirst, central nervous system pain, stimulation beyond our comprehension, and gradual asphyxiation, that no reviling or words of condemnation were uttered by Him. Rather, He expressed concern for those about Him.

As the crucifixion continued, the chest wall would further elongate and become grossly distorted. The stomach area would sink. The altered hemodynamics of the thoracic cavity would result in a progressive effusion of fluid into the pericardial sack, creating a searing, sharp, pleuritic type pain with each heartbeat and each attempted movement on the cross.

These events are accurately depicted in Psalm 22, which was written hundreds of years before crucifixion was ever practiced:


"All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head...I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have compassed me; the assemble of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell (count) all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."
Jesus was placed upon the cross at about the sixth hour. The crucifixion lasted at least through the ninth hour when the darkness fell upon the land. Therefore, it was approximately six hours before Jesus released his spirit.

Because it was the eve of the preparation for the Passover, the Jews had asked that the bodies be removed from the crosses. So the soldiers came to break the legs of the prisoners, to hasten their death. But when they came to Jesus, they found that he already was dead -- John l9:33 & 36 says, "They brake not his legs...for these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of Him shall not be broken" (in reference to Psalm 34:20).

In death, Jesus was provided a rich man’s burial. (This, too, was prophesied in the Old Testament: Isaiah 53:9). So Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, whose lives had been touched by Jesus, tenderly provided for the funeral arrangements in a near-by tomb.

The garden tomb area of the old city has a beautiful representative tomb carved out of solid rock which fits the Protestant tradition. One of the most moving experiences during a trip to the Holy Land occurs as you walk into the empty inner chamber. There the guide points out that other believers would say that the burial occurred in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, or over here, or over there. But the exact place is not really important, he says. Whatever tomb contained the body of our Lord Jesus, it is empty. What a dramatic testimony to the power of our risen Lord Jesus Christ.

We need to keep considering Calvary, and the blood that was spilled as payment in full for our sins. We need also to remember the empty tomb and the testimony of hundreds of witnesses who saw Jesus physically following His resurrection. Then we need to answer the same haunting question that Pilate faced, "What shall I do with this man called Jesus?"

http://njministries.org/njm/deathofjesus.html
 
CC, thank you for your response.

Feel free to lock the thread if you so desire.

I saw the questions and thought "wow! I had those very questions...and I have gotten those answers...This might start a great discussion!"

Fine. (not fine...Fine, Fin, the end, like in music.)
 
i am in a place of scholars, and may possibly go for a doctorite
wow.gif
and i am sure there are some scholars among us
 
Big J, I can admit that the way I behaved was probably not the best.  Not probably, definatly.

Its not like you have ever been very kind, understanding or compasionate to Christians over on The Atheist Network Message board.  Naturally, I took what I know of you over there and made a very bad assumption that you would likely not act any different over here.

I must commend you, you have acted much more charasmatic and civil on these boards.  Of course, I am not entirely convinced that your differance in behaviour has nothing to do with a possibility of being banned on these boards.  So, yes, I entirely question your motives.  I have never been one of those who blindly believes or blindly trusts.  I do sleep with one eye open admist my enemies.  I have too many battle scars not to do anything less then be gaurded.  This, I suppose, would be my confession of how imperfect a Christian I am, my own lack of faith, be as it may, take it as you will.

My error is in judging you, for that truly I am sorry.  I, unfortunate as it may, do have an addiction.  And that addiction is to head on confrontation.  And no matter how hard I try to leave, this place draws me back because of all the confrontations I have had and enjoyed, when trully I should not have.  If I am called to be a peacemaker, why is it that I should still enjoy starting and fighting in wars?

I tried to leave but I couldn't.  I have done this over, and over, and over and over, and over and over and over and over again.  This one hangs heavy around my neck.  And as all addictions go, there are those in path that I have hurt, often intentionally.  And if that has been the case here with you Big J, then again, I am trully sorry.

I offer no justification as to why, as it is inexcusable, rather only in sincere hope, offer an explanation as to what happens, happens.

--
 
My head hurts -_-. I say good jobs to both sides of this arguement. By the way, the Paul issue was in another thread, methinks.

Though, I must lean to God and stick with my Christian friends, here.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Big J, I can admit that the way I behaved was probably not the best.  Not probably, definatly.

'pology accepted.  
smile.gif


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Its not like you have ever been very kind, understanding or compasionate to Christians over on The Atheist Network Message board.  

Well, I like to think I was nice to Romans, up until the end...and, quite bluntly, I'm rougher over there to everyone.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I must commend you, you have acted much more charasmatic and civil on these boards.

Thank you.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Of course, I am not entirely convinced that your differance in behaviour has nothing to do with a possibility of being banned on these boards.

Honestly, I was expecting to be banned when I first arrived.  Now, I figure I won't.  I respect boards, period.  If this were any board that asked that I do not swear, I would respect that.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]So, yes, I entirely question your motives.

I understand, and I take no offense now.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have too many battle scars not to do anything less then be gaurded.  

I am the same way.

If you were to ask me if I am bitter at many of the things "Christians" have done to me?  Yes.  Am I bitter at the religion?  No.  I just find that much of what I have encountered in the Bible, just doesn't fit together.  I find that the profound stuff can be found elsewhere.  

To put it another way, and to share a bit more, my main bad experience with Christians were Protestants.  Had that been the limit, I would have remained a Catholic.  (I switched to Catholicism after being a Baptist.)

Instead, and possibly because I saw that there were differences, I began to examine the differences.  They were interesting.  I then read some of Voltaire's works.  Eyeopening.  I found that the Bible had errors and inconsistancies...ones I could not find a solution for.

So I (eventually) stopped even considering myself a Christian.  Just a bit on my background, I have no idea why I'm even sharing all this in response.  LOL  

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]This, I suppose, would be my confession of how imperfect a Christian I am, my own lack of faith, be as it may, take it as you will.

Ah, defend Christianity.  Be zealous.  I am looking for answers, still.  Just understand that I will attack your arguments, as I expect you to attack mine.  
smile.gif


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My error is in judging you, for that truly I am sorry.

Like I said...apolgy accepted.  If I have hurt you, I apologize too.

A final thought about the AN v. Here.
I did not come here to deconvert anyone.  I came here mostly because it is not too crazy of a board, and I figured that here was as good a place as any to throw out all the questions I had about Christianity.  Passages I saw as conflicting.  I mean, I cannot ask other atheists about it.  LOL  Bottom line, I am a guest here, thus I will play by the rules.  
smile.gif


Have I been harsh there?  Yes.  But it has been to many people there, not just Christians.  Frankly, some of the Christians who showed up there...were very bad.  I assume you don't post much there (if at all...I don't remember seeing you post, that's why)?  You don't seem like any of the recent Christians that showed up...I mean, Jesusrose and the Big Macs...and whatshisface with the "insult me" thread...

Anyway, I also use that board to dump all my bitterness out.  That's another reason I seem different there than I do here.  
smile.gif


Well, peace out, good luck, and...I forgive you 70x7 times.  
biggrin.gif


(Oh wait...sorry this got so darn long, LOL)
 
Big J,

No worries about the length.

I don't post over on the Atheist Network, kind of lurk in and out. Maybe someday I shall. I only post on three boards. This one, a private by invitation only one and a third that has to do with my favorite hobby: Flight Simming.

As to why you are opening up? I don't know. Unlike so many other boards that exist, this is only 1 of 2 I have ever found where people for the most part are accepting rather then judging. Maybe, you feel safe here. It is kind of ironic, in a sense, we are 180' from each other in so many respects that we could be considered enemies, and yet, well, we are very free and open with each other.

For that type of openess and honesty, much commendation must be given to the forum admins
biggrin.gif
you go guys.

And FYI, I don't subscribe to the lines of definition between the different denominations. I was baptized Lutheran grew up Anglican. My mother is Orthodox. I send my son to a bible study at a Baptist church and a non-denominational outreach program run in the school. I watch with great interest three different worship and gospel preaching television shows, all different denominations again. I even went to the Notre Dame and took in part of a service while I was there. And people wonder why I can't find a church to belong to.
 
Back
Top