Question for Women...

Byblos, the verses in question are in 1 Cor. 11.

We are talking about a few different topics here, submission in Ephesians and head coverings in 1 Cor. Don't get the two mixed up. I wasn't referrering to Paul and submission. Paul is describing worship in 1 Cor. 11.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Sep. 28 2004,12:59)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Sep. 28 2004,12:53)]Why then, in our understanding of scripture, do churches continue to propigate this incorrect and dishonoring view of Christ?
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Then, maybe you should go to such a church and ask the minister there.  I have not been in a church that displays a picture of Jesus, much less one that protrays him with long hair.
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Well Catholic churches spring to mind with their pictures and crucifixes.

I'm not sure what other denominations decorate their churches with paintings/frescos/artwork, etc.

Any suggestions?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 28 2004,1:07)]It says whoever prays with there face covered dishonors god. in verse 4
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"4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head."

Verse 4 is speaking about MEN, not women. Women are under a different set of rules.
 
I didnt get that far yet. I was taking it verse by verse.

ahh yeah, It says women should cover their faces... strange

I will just have to see what Joe says about this...
 
For the record, the word used as "head" is the Greek word Kephale. According to the Greek Lexicon, the definition is, "the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment."
 
Im listening to Joe at the moment...

.... Women are to only submit in marriage, and are only the head in the marriage. Paul also tells the women that they can always take it to Christ as CHrist is the head of the man, Its like going to the boss of the boss, SO if your Man tells younto do something and Jesus says not, of course you follow Jesus and He, The man must Follow jesus.....
 
To God no one is worth more then another.... These rules are to keep order, not to say men are greater then women but to keep order....
 
The Godly order is not democracy, its a kingdom. And the one in charge of all is perfect so that if a lower king, man over woman, the woman can turn to God for Justice....

AHAH, When he speaks of head he does NOT speak of your phycical head, but your head as Jesus! DO not cover Jesus when you pray, and the woman is to pray covering their Head who is man because they pray to Jesus not to the man. And for a woman its different because....
 
At that temple that paul was speaking to, a woman who didnt wear a hat was a prostitute, because a prostitute shaved her head to show she was a prostitute... and to show that you were clean, the women wore hats! So If a woman prayed without a hat she was showing to everyone that she is a prostitute which dishonors God and her husband...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 28 2004,1:16)]Im listening to Joe at the moment...

.... Women are to only submit in marriage, and are only the head in the marriage. Paul also tells the women that they can always take it to Christ as CHrist is the head of the man, Its like going to the boss of the boss, SO if your Man tells younto do something and Jesus says not, of course you follow Jesus and He, The man must Follow jesus.....
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How are you to rationalize that statement with what Paul says further in I Corinthians 14:34-35, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Women are not permitted to speak in church. If they have a question, they are to ask their husbands at home.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 28 2004,1:19)]AHAH, When he speaks of head he does NOT speak of your phycical head, but your head as Jesus! DO not cover Jesus when you pray, and the woman is to pray covering their Head who is man because they pray to Jesus not to the man. And for a woman its different because....
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Perhaps you missed this post:

"For the record, the word used as "head" is the Greek word Kephale. According to the Greek Lexicon, the definition is, "the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment."

It is not defined as CHRIST, but of a physical head, that thing that sits on your shoulders.

Also, what translation of the bible do you use? You were saying this was translated as "face".
 
A man has one head, Christ, a woman has two, God and her husband.... If the man messes up she can turn to christ.... A man shouldnt cover his head ofr he is the image of God, and a woman should cover her head becaue in that time and place women without hats wore no hats to show they are prostitutes, so if as a woman you took off your hat to pray you are showing that you are a prostitute and you mind as well shave your head while your at it...
 
The Genesis account of Creation say that God made man and from man God made women. You have a heirarchy of sorts. God (Jesus, the Holy Spirit) - Man - Women that recognizes the headship from the creation account. This headship is symbolically prevelant throughout the bible. But, anybody being second class is not in the bible. The hierarcy is in place for accountability. I am, as head of the family, singularly accountable for my family. Don't take this out of context. If I say to my family that today we shall go out and rape and pillage our neighbours, I will be held accountable for that decision, I will be held accountable for the actions. Of course I would not decide such a thing. I would also not decide to starve my family or hurt them. I treat them with as much respect as I would give myself.

Jesus also blurs the "hierarchy" lines by calling us his friends and co-heirs. And in such relationships, there is no heirarchy, rather an equality. Equality with God, no. We are not God, we are not little gods, we will not become gods. But with the one part of the trinity (Jesus, the Son), we become equals. I don't know what that means but, I am very excited to find out.

As for women covering their heads, well, not doing it will not stop them from getting into heavan. But they will be accountable for not doing it. Whats the punishment? I doubt it is "one day in hell for you!" The bible speaks that we store treasures in heavan when we are obedient to God. This is probably a case of a little less treasure for some.
 
I said translated to face, Joe says it translates as Spiritual Head in one place and physcial head inthe other. FOr the men it speaks of Physical head and for the women it speak fo her spiritual head.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 28 2004,1:28)]Whenewver you really want ot know what a passage means, hear what Joe has to say. Just try him out. You can listen to him...

http://www.ccphilly.org/sfthtapes/versebyverse.asp

He has been teaching the bible for over 20 years and im sure he knows better then any of us, he also studies the languages and visits Jerusalem to see the sites in person.
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Can you ask this guy questions? That would be interesting, a little more interactive.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 28 2004,1:25)]I said translated to face, Joe says it translates as Spiritual Head in one place and physcial head inthe other. FOr the men it speaks of Physical head and for the women it speak fo her spiritual head.
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Actually for women the same greek word is used. It is talking about their PHYSICAL head.

You still haven't told me what version of the bible you use, or are you just relying on Joe's interpretation?
 
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