Question for the Locks....

Frother

New Member
Ok, sorry to bore other classes, but I'm a n00b Lock - lvl 47 on first Lock char and climbing fast as I can, which means no instancing or raiding atm.

Wondering......
Why are virtually all of our 70 Locks using a Demonology build, according to the Armory? Presumably raises dps or raid utility, but I'm not sure how 'xactly. I thought the other two builds were more of the 'raiding' builds. Of course since BC coming out, a lot of the WoW Forum/Class 'Guides' are outdated so it's hard to know what still applies there.

Raiding is a lil ways off for me obviously, but to whatever extent I can, I'd like to practice now while leveling whatever I can that will later apply to raiding.

For frame of ref - I've done extensive MC/BWL raiding on another server as healers - this is first char as a non-healer.

a/k/a Meltaway....46 Lock

PS - we don't have Class-specific forums on the Redeemed forum site, right?
I'm assuming not...hence the post here.
 
demonology is a pretty fun build, and with the new pet it can actually be useful in raids. The pet can take a hit and deal damage and sometimes be used as a backup tank. I remember the first time I took the new pet to MC he was able to withstand hits from Garr's adds much better than the blueberry and according to my damage meter when I was out grinding he was usually outdpsing me hehe. I think the other builds put out more dps but the demonology build definately has its perks, such as being ability to pull out a different pet to get more resistance to magic.
 
The new pet is also really good for soloing stuff. It was able to keep aggro on 2 or 3 same level mobs while my dots where on them. Made the soloable quests very easy.
 
I think I'm the one exception to the level 70 demonology spec, as I'm affliction. I did level as demo, though, and only specced affliction when I dinged 63, so I'm very familiar with that build, too.

Aside from survivability, the one area that I'd give demo a serious nod over affliction is in single target damage, particularly in shorter fights. The +dam from demonic knowledge and master demonologist/demonic sacrifice really help in those situations. I have shadow mastery, which helps, but generally won't give me quite as much of a bonus. With both specs I had 11 points in destruction for quick(er) firing shadowbolts and shadowburn. In a quick single target fight, the demo 'lock pumping out his DK/MD enhanced shadowbolts and having his pet beat on the mob as well will almost always outdamage my SM shadowbolts and 'mana battery' pet sitting idle.

Where the affliction build truly shines is in efficiency. As I mentioned in the Shadow Priest discussion yesterday, I have so many tools to regain mana and health that I almost never have to drink. I have an Imp summoned 99.9% of the time, and leave him on passive, so he's always regaining mana at his non-combat rate, and I just Dark Pact mana from him whenever I start dropping low. If we're both low, then I lifetap and siphon life/drain life to bring my health back up.

The other advantage I have as affliction is in multi mob fights. In an instance, if the tank can hold aggro well enough, I can easily get DOTs up on 3 mobs at once. I have 5 DOTs, 3 of which are instant cast, and all of which hit significantly harder than the DOTs from a demo 'lock (who will only have 3 to choose from, 2 of which can be instant, if he's specced insta corruption). DOTting down 2-3 mobs in parallel is where my DPS starts to get scary. And, once again, in long boss fights, when other casters (including other locks) are having to worry about mana, if I can avoid aggro issues, I can literally continue casting forever by balancing my health and mana bars.

As far as levelling and grinding goes, affliction was so much easier for me than demo. As much as I liked the Felguard, there were times I had durability problems with him. If he had 2-3 mobs on him, he could drop in a hurry. It wasn't really a problem pre-BC, but some of the areas in Outlands can have insane respawn rates when they're heavily camped. There were several times that my pet was doing fine, then a repop would come unexpectedly, and he'd drop like a rock. I also had to worry about conserving his mana, as he ran out fairly quickly, even with a point or two in mana feed.

Once I went affliction, if I wasn't fighting at least 3 mobs, I felt like I wasn't making the most of my abilities. I'd DOT up 2-3 mobs, sometimes more, depending on where I was and how hard they hit. I'd usually lead off with UA, then CoA, Corr, and siphon life, then move on to the next mob. The great thing about that is that only UA required me to stop moving in order to cast. I could be running away from mob 1 and throw out my 3 instas on mobs 2 and 3, then hit an insta Howl of Terror (possibly the best 2 talent points I've ever spent), and all 3 mobs would usually be dead before fear wore off. Loot, dark pact, and repeat. With improved drain soul, every time I DS'd a mob as he died, I'd get 15% of my max mana back, so mana efficiency was insane. It was pretty normal for me to end one of those 3 mob pulls above 80% in both health and mana, so I could immediately go find another pull. Zero downtime while multi-mob grinding just isn't fair. DPS is very high, as well. Even though I was getting zero damage from my pet, this method of grinding increased my DPS significantly over what I was getting with demo. At levels 69 and 70, while solo grinding, I could generally sustain about 410-450 DPS when I was grinding using this method. I haven't done much of this since I've been boosting my +damage gear. That was at about +500-700 damage. I'm now about +920, and am sure that my DPS would be noticeably higher now.

Sorry for the wall of text, but as I'm sure you can see, this is an area I've put a lot of thought into. If you've got other questions, feel free to post here on the forums or send me a /w in game.
 
You - you're just text. A veritable ASCII construct. Just like the Snoopy calendars we used to print out back in the day on dot matrix printers. ASCII art FTW! ASCII Wall FTW!

Letter Druids unite!
 
My thinking was along the lines of Baddwin's. Thanks for the wall of text by the way. I'm taking all the pointers I can get - no text limit!

Curious Baddwin - after leveling so long as Demo, what made you switch to Affl so late in the game??

I see a lot of locks runnin round with that new pet. he's pretty slick-looking. Interesting to hear he tanks well too. plus he doesn't stand out like blue neon to everyone in the zone - thats got to keep you alive a lil longer while farming...

One thing that occurred to me, Demo's good for PvP isn't it? That may come into play for some o you guys. I don't PvP at all - just dont care for it. Also, I've always played Horde before 6 weeks ago (ooh noos!) so seems weird killing my Tauren buddies now. (I'm still forgettin who I am and keep startin to turn into UC or Ogrim...!! That doesn't tend to end up too pretty....)
 
Curious Baddwin - after leveling so long as Demo, what made you switch to Affl so late in the game??

I realized that I'd only tried 1 facet of what Warlocks were capable of, liked the look of some of the new affliction toys, and just wanted to see what I thought about them. I still had my 1g respec available, so decided to take the plunge. Obviously, I'm really glad I did. I loved demo, but I love affliction even more. =)

I was really drooling over some of the new destro talents, too, but got a chance to experiment a bit with them in beta and saw how terrible mana efficiency is with that tree - at least the way I was playing it. I'd have to drink every 1-2 fights. Having played a mage into the 50s, I'd done the 'blow the snot out of everything before they can reach you' already - although I'll admit, it's really fun. =) The Warlock just doesn't have the Mage's ability to regain mana as well. No gems, do it yourself water, or evocation. Looked like sloooow going, trying to level with that build.

Demo is definitely a very nice PvP build. Nice survivability, great PvP pet (charge and cleave are very fun PvP toys), and the ability to insta-summon a new pet every 15 minutes can really come in handy. I don't have quite the survivability now without soul link, but I'm also not as conspicuous without old Felzztast, or whatever his name was, towering above everyone saying , "Kill my buddy first!" A phase shifted Imp draws much less attention, and instacast DOTs don't leave a trail pointing back at me, either. The biggest issue I had as demo in PvP was when I'd get multiple melee classes attacking me. Getting off a 1.5 second cast time howl of terror with a warrior and a rogue beating on me just didn't happen very often. With 2 points in improved HOT, it is now insta cast, so in some ways I can now survive situations that I couldn't as demo, but I'd still give demo the nod in overall survivability, although it's not a huge difference. If PvP were my sole focus, I still think I'd tend to prefer heavy demo over affliction.

(BTW, my first 60 was an UD shadowpriest, so I understand that cognitive dissonance while making the transition to 'the other side' :D )
 
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Ok, sorry to bore other classes, but I'm a n00b Lock - lvl 47 on first Lock char and climbing fast as I can, which means no instancing or raiding atm.

Wondering......
Why are virtually all of our 70 Locks using a Demonology build, according to the Armory? Presumably raises dps or raid utility, but I'm not sure how 'xactly. I thought the other two builds were more of the 'raiding' builds. Of course since BC coming out, a lot of the WoW Forum/Class 'Guides' are outdated so it's hard to know what still applies there.

Raiding is a lil ways off for me obviously, but to whatever extent I can, I'd like to practice now while leveling whatever I can that will later apply to raiding.

For frame of ref - I've done extensive MC/BWL raiding on another server as healers - this is first char as a non-healer.

a/k/a Meltaway....46 Lock

PS - we don't have Class-specific forums on the Redeemed forum site, right?
I'm assuming not...hence the post here.

I know personally a warlock named Lilone on Cho'gall. He is normally demonology or afliction for raids. To be honest the key to a warlock is just keeping your dots up and then doing w/e gives you the most damage. whether it be doing life drain or shadow bolts. Dots should keep you close to top 3 alone though. Demonology is also helpful if you have a bad problem of over dpsing on trash pulls in karazhan and such since most of the mobs you can stun. Ther fel guard can also cleave on aoe pulls =P. Demonology is a more bored spec when you get 70. Demonology is really not very useful at 70 from what i have seen. If you get good spell damge you shouldn't have any problems.

When i play a warlock all i do is full dots, life tap, and then life drain until dots are about to wear off then i repeat the cycle. It is not that hard to make top damage meters by just doing that.
 
I have a warlock named Osirys that I have raided with for quite a while. When Blizzard came out with the 41 point talent trees they did a pretty good job with the warlocks trees. You cannot go wrong with any of them.

UA is awesome for PVP and its an extra DOT in PVE. UA paired with SOC is hilarious. When the target takes 1044 damage, they will explode their group. However, if they dispel UA (Which gets dispelled first I believe) they take upwards of 1500 damage (If it does not crit) and then they blow up. It's so funny to watch.

Demonology is an awesome tree because it yields a ton of + damage through Demonic Knowledge (15% of your active pet's stamina + intellect is converted into +spell damage for you). Theres the Demonic Aegis too. Your new buff you get at 62 will yield 30 more +damage now. Last but certainly not least is the Felguard. The Felguard does respectable damage (I've seen mine crit for upto 600 damage, thats after the nerfs.) It can also tank very well. It is so much better then the succubus and the voidwalker.

Destruction is the hardest tree to get gear for in my opinion. It is reliant on +crit and +damage. My Warlock's spec was 0.21.40. I had 600 spell damage and 18% to crit. To get insane damage, you need to Sacrifice your imp for 15% additional damage (90 damage for me), then with the buff, thats an additional 130. In the destruction tree all of your fire spells gain at least 15% more damage. Thats quite a bit. Here is the spec I used.

You cannot go wrong.
 
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