Problem.....

We all have frustrations in different areas. We aren't perfect and the leaders have to deal with a lot on their plate with so many guildies. That's why it's important to bring things to their attention because they never do anything intentional to make things exclusive or purposefully leave someone out. They try their best to keep up with who's gone and who hasn't. Appreciate the apology.
 
Mmmkay tots. Mmmkay then delete this post.....................
 
I'd also say I have said something. And it continues to be such way. The only other thing to do in my opinion is leave the guild. Or earn the status of raid leader. And lead my own group. Make 2 groups of core raiders.
 
Xymnas, you know you didn't even give Fierce a chance to talk to you, but instead jumped to conclusions and criticize your guildmates.
Especially this word, raid leaders put a lot of effort into serving every member of Redeemed, being there to lead. Its a thankless job. Posting here is not a way to resolve things, going first to the raid leader to talk is, and if your still upset bring an officer to talk. All our raid leaders are all approachable, all fantastic guildies and all serve thanklessly.

Kyle Kristeen is also there to talk as our guild liason. If anyone is feeling left out, excluded or hurt, we want to minister to you and work out whatever the problem is.
 
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Mmkay goodwone. Mmmkay. Then you have the powers to delete this if you wish
 
got friends over at my house who are using my computer screen. I'll be on either late tonight or tomorrow after church an my fundraiser for Kenya
 
Xymnas said:
Yah I understand that mordos. If we have the group to do it why not. Yah I see where your coming from on that. I'm sorry for arguing with you about the flame downing LK. No point in fighting about it. So sorry about that. Guess I was just frustrated about it all
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Shoot I understand... no worries mate... I understood where you are at.
 
Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
27 and do not give the devil a foothold.

Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.
32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

God's Word says it best - the devil is getting a foothold here because people are frustrated. That is what he does best is divide the body.

We have Christ in our hearts, we share the brotherhood (sisterhood) of believers, and as family we are going to hit rough patches.

I think what is best here is to love one another with the love of Christ - to remember that we were bought with a tremendous price - and that wasn't to fight with each other over the game.

Clearly the issue will be addressed with those who are frustrated and it will be one on one - no need to fan flames of division.

Nobody better leave either because this is totally resolvable :)
 
Xymnas said:
Your right, and I can easily ask everyone...I'm at work atm and will once i get home. But what i'm saying is that i dont see any proof of this happening....And i guess it really doesnt matter if he did it or not.....I think everyone would like to get the LK down before we go to heroic, just because flame has downed the LK. And i'm not sure why he would pug such a thing...I'm not sure if he's a vet or not, or what rank he is in the guild...but you think if he being a "Rank 2" would actually do this with the guild....not a pug.

This doesnt make sense to me.
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Wow - looks like I'm late to the party!

I'm not sure if I've done anything to upset anyone - goodness knows I'm the last person to try and do that in this guild. I know the argument isn't about my skill or gear or anything, (which I'll put up against any other tank in the guild), so I won't argue about that.

However, all I do is sign up for raids when I'm able, and go where I'm told and do what I'm told. So I'm sorry if I'm causing any trouble.

I've never killed the LK. I'm probably guilty of starting this rumor though, as sometimes I link achievement I'd LIKE to get in guild chat by typing /g has earned the achievement [Old Ironjaw]! and it looks very official and congratulatory and everyone has a good laugh.

I do pug from time to time, and I make no apologies for that. My schedule does not allow me to raid with the guild most weeks. It's been agreed already that attendance is not a requirement to be a veteran.
I think we'd all agree that pugging a raid when I know for sure that I can't make the guild raids (or have already missed them) is preferable to missing the lockout all together.

If anyone has issue with any of my actions, feel free to whisper me in game. I'd rather not raid at all than cause problems in the guild.

Love you all,
Flame
 
From raiding a TON in BC to now and seeing redeemed go through all of this stuff its hard to believe its still happening.
Personally ive had these thoughts of WHY them how could they! And as goodwone knows ive complained about it a lot. BUT over my years of being in the guild ive seen that the way to work it out is talking with leadership. You have to talk with them and they do so much for this guild behind the scenes yet still get flack. Ive been one of those people giving them garbage in the past and im sorry for that i truly am. Being able to balance the fellowship and the raiding aspect is extremely difficult. But please please talk with leadership and give yourself sometime to calm down and breath because otherwise stuff that you don't want to be said will be said. Or do what i do and spam goodwone like a mad man and then finally be calmed by the end lol
 
Thanks pneuma, and galations. And flame. I'll pm you or whisper you in game Sunday if you will be on. Mmmkay
 
wow the things that can go on in 24 hours!

I was the first one to reply to xymnas' post and thought we had things pretty much wrapped up and were on the same page. It also looks like things came full circle here so I will not beat a dead horse.

Just so we're all clear! Our progression group is not exclusive. I am, however, guilty of being very picky when it comes to gear and experience when attempting LK. After looking at the recent posts, I am trying to be more open minded and want to get more tries in more often...period. Let us all remember that we have only attempted LK 3 TIMES as a guild! We have not been there often enough to say anything along the lines of "always" or "never".

Redletters has obviously not killed LK either via his post here and the updated armory and wow-heroes list (he's too skurred to go w/o Redeemed anyway...)

I would echo Piano in that I would, myself, gladly step out of the way of someone else who would do a better job than me just to see <Redeemed> down the Lich King. Being a Raid Leader, it is my responsibility to see to it that we put the best group together in order to make that a reality and I hold myself responsible when we fail. Therefore, my standards of play, gear, and capabilities are set high not only for myself, but for all other in the group. I apologize when I become blind to the fairness of my fellow guildmates. Please see that my main goal is for us ALL to succeed. I am doing my best to be fair, inclusive, and see to the success of Redeemed Raiding as a whole. I appreciate the thought and effort put in by all of you in this thread and in-game. I definitely take note of you who put in a lot of time in-game and out doing research for yourselves as well as helping others.
 
Well put? I think so.


My name is xymnas and I approve.

I know not everyone is perfect so you have your opinions on people/classes/gear and what not. And sorry to kinda "throw you under the bus". I can understand that you are trying your best to be fair.

So yah. Sorry for that 1
 
Flamethrøwer said:
I've never killed the LK. I'm probably guilty of starting this rumor though, as sometimes I link achievement I'd LIKE to get in guild chat by typing /g has earned the achievement [Old Ironjaw]! and it looks very official and congratulatory and everyone has a good laugh.
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You would lol :D
 
Xymnas said:
Well put? I think so.


My name is xymnas and I approve.

I know not everyone is perfect so you have your opinions on people/classes/gear and what not. And sorry to kinda "throw you under the bus". I can understand that you are trying your best to be fair.

So yah. Sorry for that 1
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no worries man. we need our "checks and balances". It's just the presentation that matters ;)
 
Just a last word on resolving any situations......again, we have a guild liason, Kyle (Kristeen toon name in game) that you can talk to. Don't let things fester or jump to conclusions, talk to somone in charge, I'll be there to listen also if your too intimidated to talk to a raid leader and I'll try to help or direct you as to what I think you need to do to resolve things, and follow up on what your told. Mutual respect, patience and understanding is important.

I also keep track of who gets left out of a raid, and keep it on a list for raid leaders to refer to when making raid groups. Remember raid leaders have a lot to remember as to who went last, who went with who, who didn't get in, what your stats are, what your alts are. Give them them courtesy and patience, talk to someone if you feel you've not been getting into raids and we will try to figure things out. Might be your gearscore, might be the group makeup needed certain people, might be the raid leader was trying to keep a continuation group together, etc., all kinds of factors go into the decision making process. And I know this is hard to believe, but our raid leaders are going to make mistakes because they are not perfect! There are also many times things going on behind the scenes that members don't even know, like Cassadine sitting out raid after raid to get other members in, as well as other officer/guild leaders offering to sit out raids to let other people go.

Also, make sure your you've read and understand our raid policys here: http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33282

Lastly, if your in game notes do not reflect who your main is, alts, and what you toons specs are pst me in game, or any officer, and we will write them in for you. That is important for the raid leaders to know when putting together a group.

:D
 
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This post is important and often we need to get things out in the open, but not public. My option for communicating is mostly electronic on this board or in game. And if I have a problem, I do not feel comfortable using vent to talk to someone. I think Xym posted a viable complaint - and it has been dealt with. I would rather see this process than to not see anyone leave the guild. I think the large input circle is important.

HOWEVER - THIS IS WHY WE NEED A PRIVATE FORUM FOR GUILD ONLY! It is a great example of love and forgiveness in action, but so we need to air our dirty laundry in public??? Some things should be for guild eyes only.
 
skvsr said:
This post is important and often we need to get things out in the open, but not public. My option for communicating is mostly electronic on this board or in game. And if I have a problem, I do not feel comfortable using vent to talk to someone. I think Xym posted a viable complaint - and it has been dealt with. I would rather see this process than to not see anyone leave the guild. I think the large input circle is important.

HOWEVER - THIS IS WHY WE NEED A PRIVATE FORUM FOR GUILD ONLY! It is a great example of love and forgiveness in action, but so we need to air our dirty laundry in public??? Some things should be for guild eyes only.
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More private forums are unnecessary in my opinion. If people have some sort of problem that they'd like to discuss I think it's best done through pms to settle issues calmly and privately.

Also, I hang my laundry outside...
 
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