Opinions on TF2 Alternate Weapons/Items

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
It seems like the quality of the weapons Valve is adding is going down overall IMO. Sure they aren't all useless (The Huntsman looks good but I don't have one for testing yet) it just doesn't seem as good as the earlier Medic/Pyro ones. Here are my opinions on the update weapons and which ones I use...

I always have these equipped:

The Blutsauger: The vampire ability of this gun lets medics survive and fight better period.

The Ubersaw: Turn spies' botched backstabing attempts on you into precious uber juice.

The Axtinguisher: Instant crits after lighting your opponents on fire are very useful. Chops heavies down good. The regular axe is only better for water fights and people who expend all their flamethrower ammo easily (which is hard to do).

The K.G.B: Honestly I very rarely have the opportunity to punch people as a heavy however if I need to I use the K.G.B. for the crit effect. If you prefer the fists it is no big as you won't be using either often.

These are situational or up to preference:

The Kritzkrieg: If you want to take down a sg use the regular healgun's uber. If you want to kill a group of tightly packed together enemies use this on a heavy or soldier (demos can be useful too if they know what they are doing.)

The Flare Gun: If you are going to be in water at all don't use this, use the shotgun, as the flare gun does not work in water. The shotgun's finishing properties are better hands down 90% of the time. Only use this if you are going to be fighting enemies at range and are a good aim. I also like it for it's annoyance factor :p and occasionally use it for that. It's basically a good support weapon for your team but not what you want to have for one on one fights.

The Backburner: Its not nearly as utilitarian as the regular flamethrower but if you are behind a large group of enemies this is much easier to use than the flame/Axtinguisher combo. It's easier for newbies to use too if you are good at sneaking around and circle strafing.

The Sandvich: Although I ALWAYS have this equipped I can see the use for the regular shotgun if you have problems rationing the Minigun's ammo. I just find myself alone without a medic a lot more than without ammo.

Bonk Energy Drink: Useful solely if you want to run by enemies or their sg's. I never have it equipped unless I know I am going to be using it.

The Force of Nature: Useful if you must cross a gap and use the Sandman at the same time or if you need the extra height on top of the double jump. Right now though it seems weaker than the Scattergun. I 'd like to use this weapon because I like triple jumping and knockback but it's a trade off I am unsure of.

These weapons I would only use for the novelty or for a very rare situation. Valve has nerfed them into uselessness compared with their alternatives.

The Sandman:
Only worth it for stopping ubers right now. It's been nerfed the in the wrong manner IMO. Double jumping for dodging is way more useful right now.

Natascha: Natascha is highly situational. If you are the sole main offensive class around I would never use it. Even against scouts the gun can be inferior if the scouts know what they are doing. It is useful for spy checking if you are firing continually off a dispenser though (slow effect is noticeable on disguised spies). Like say if your intel is in a spot gettable by the other team, AND you have a dispenser next to you, Natascha can be useful for stopping spies trying to touch it. Honestly though I never use it unless It's just for fun.

As far as the new weapons go I am still forming my opinions on them/collecting them but from what I have so far...

The Cloak and Dagger: The only possible use I have for this is surveillance (and maybe sniping once I get the Ambassador?) . Basically if your timing is good enough the regular invisible watch can do everything this can, better, faster and with much higher kill counts. Want to stay invisible forever? Just use an enemy dispenser/ammo packs and the regular watch.

The Dead Ringer: At first I though it was useless. Then, after some more testing, I though it was a novelty, kind of neat but not as good as the regular watch. Now with the new Valve nerf I think it is useless again. Basically Valve seems determined to artificially slow down the opportunities a spy has to stab. The regular watch gives more opportunities than either replacement watch hands down making the new watches mostly useless T_T. I do imagine I'll use them on occasion just for kicks.

The Razorback: Having gotten one it is actually MORE useless than I thought. Let's make a list here...
1. You trade out the regular SMG for this.
2. It only works once then you have to get a new one.
3. The noise it makes when it's been used is so quiet you can hardly tell it has been.
4. There is no way to tell if it has been used if you miss the noise.
5. It only stuns the spy's knife for a split second and does no damage to him.
6. The new Jarate goes in the same slot so you cannot use both.
7. It is only useful against one attack of one class and useless against all others. Spies can just shoot you yeeesh.
8. AND the grand kicker is you get a 15% speed debuff on top of all that.
I have no idea what Valve was thinking with this item and I keep thinking I must be missing seeing a function. It is hands down the most useless of all the new weapons and I fully expect Valve to improve it since it is so obviously so.

I won't comment on the other weapons as I do not have them yet. By all means post your opinions.
 
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The Blutsauger: The vampire ability of this gun lets medics survive and fight better period.

The Ubersaw: Turn spies' botched backstabing attempts on you into precious uber juice.

Love the Blutsauger, and there is no downside to having this equipped. Haven't gotten the Ubersaw yet.

The Backburner: Its not nearly as utilitarian as the regular flamethrower but if you are behind a large group of enemies this is much easier to use than the flame/Axtinguisher combo. It's easier for newbies to use too if you are good at sneaking around and circle strafing.

[The Flare Gun: If you are going to be in water at all don't use this, use the shotgun, as the flare gun does not work in water. The shotgun's finishing properties are better hands down 90% of the time. Only use this if you are going to be fighting enemies at range and are a good aim. I also like it for it's annoyance factor :p and occasionally use it for that. It's basically a good support weapon for your team but not what you want to have for one on one fights.

The Axtinguisher: Instant crits after lighting your opponents on fire are very useful. Chops heavies down good. The regular axe is only better for water fights and people who expend all their flamethrower ammo easily (which is hard to do).

Gerbil is on point with the pyro weapons. I was jacked about getting the upgrades, but honestly the only one that has keeper value is the Axtinguisher. Backburner is very situational, and the flare gun while novelty doesn't have near the utility of the shotgun. The air blast on the regular flamethrower gets better and better the more I figure out how to use it. Last night I air blasted Jarate back at a sniper :)

The Force of Nature: Useful if you must cross a gap and use the Sandman at the same time or if you need the extra height on top of the double jump. Right now though it seems so much weaker than the Scattergun. I really, really want to use this weapon (because I like triple jumping and knockback) but it's too much of a trade off for just a "neat" effect.

I'll mildly disagree with you here. Force of Nature is very solid when the enemy hasn't spotted you or if you excel at hit-and-run tactics. The knock back is very powerful when used in the right situations (knocking someone off a control point, breaking an uber connection, keeping Pyro's away, knocking people off bridges...). The major downside is the reload time, but if you plan on standing toe to toe and fighting things, scout might not be the best choice of class.
 
The only thing I really liked about the backburner is the increase HP, But I do agree with Gerbil these weapons are just about pointless. I was expecting more on the two classes that really seem to have limitless ideas on things that they could have tried.
 
I'll mildly disagree with you here. Force of Nature is very solid when the enemy hasn't spotted you or if you excel at hit-and-run tactics. The knock back is very powerful when used in the right situations (knocking someone off a control point, breaking an uber connection, keeping Pyro's away, knocking people off bridges...). The major downside is the reload time, but if you plan on standing toe to toe and fighting things, scout might not be the best choice of class.

Yeah the knockback definitely has it's uses (death pit on cp_steel + knockback = hilarity :p) . I just get tired of coming up behind low hp enemies, emptying both barrels into them point blank and not having them die (I guess that's why I play spy :p) . It's probably just my bad aim or lag or both. Weapons are almost identical in damage range.

http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Scout said:
Scattergun
Damage

* Point Blank: 85-105
* Medium Range: 10-40
* Long Range: 3-10
* Critical Hit: 180

Function Times

* Attack Interval: 0.66
* Reload Base: 0.76
* Additional Reload: 0.56

Force-A-Nature
Damage

* Point Blank: ~82-101
* Medium Range: ~10-39
* Long Range: ~3-10
* Critical Hit: ~173

Function Times

* Attack Interval: 0.33
* Reload Base: 1.64 (Slower Than Scattergun)
* Additional Reload: None. Reloading one shell takes as long as reloading two.

You can check out the different hats on that page too http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page . Seems like a better helmet could have been done for the heavy IMO. The other ones are all at least decent if not great. I can easily see more hats being made too. I can see a...

1. A firefighter hat for the pyro.
2. One with a bunch of camouflage on it for the soldier (like a twig with a bird's nest :p).
3. One of those reflective, metal, donut shaped things doctors wear for the medic.
4. A wielding mask for the engineer.
5. A beer hat with bonk in it for the scout.
6. Some kind of furry creature made into a fur hat for the sniper. Think roadkill like with absurd small XD eyes looking at you.
7. Maybe a Fabio wig for the heavy. Ohhhh or better yet a Zangief mohawk!!! (and beard if possible)
8. Bomb disposal people wear a helmet to go with the outfit the demo has on. Why not make one to complete it?
9. For spy maybe a villainous mustache like Valve had on their flyer or maybe another mask like Robin wears (Batman and Robin) to go on top of the balaclava (one can never be too secret) or maybe a top hat.
 
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Medic I think has the strongest out of all of them. I always have those unlocks equipped (since I love the KK so much), and as for the others, I only use 1 or 2.

Flare gun is useless to me, and too many newbies just stand 70 feet out firing at a level 3 SG while there's an engi repairing it. :/ Axt rocks. Backburner... may be useful if you're facing off against very new people, but when I first picked up Pyro, I felt like I wanted to push enemy players, or get constant crits. Now that I can do either, my whole playstyle revolves around the airblast. Shotgun is too powerful to trade up for 90 damage over time (30 hit, 60 DoT IIRC). Ya guys know what I'm talkin' 'bout. :p It adds so much depth and yet people on the Steam forums are always complaining about W+M1 Backburner pyros so they call for Pyro nerfs. o.o /le sigh An airblast combo only takes about 44 ammo, and 2 shotty shells roughly, which is always refueled when ya kill a guy. Which more guys used the airblast, even if just to put out teammates. I LOEV AIRBALST. ^__^)_b

Heavy's Sandvich is useful, ammo is never really a problem since you work around not having the Shotty, so I just jump-spin up a lot more. I melee like, 5% of the time I play Heavy, but I think fists are cooler for the gun finger. :p Natscha is not my favorite unlock, only good against weaker guys. I wished the heavy got like an Anti-Tank/Flak gun or something, he is the Heavy Weapons Guy, not Mini-gun Only Guy. T_________T)_p

The Sandman is something I love to use, great for stunning snipers (who stand in the same 5 foot area usually), ubers, KK'ers, spies, pyros (who usually run straight ahead anyways) or just for goofing off. I work around the double-jump, which I do miss sometimes. The FAN is good for damaging the enemy, but I don't really to expect to kill anything (can usually kill a Medic, but still). The knockback can be fun, and helps with cart/CP defense, but it's for those who use hit-and-run, not the other scouts who stay there and kill. (Awesome to push a spinned up heavy 20 feet back from a SG before his uber, cost him 3 seconds to run forward again. xD) Bonk... I use for taunting. Or for killing engineers with their own guns. Or for... dunno. Not that useful. :p

Don't know much about Sniper/Spy ones yet. :p Jarate was a boat of fun one night. I think it's because everyone was super tired. xD
 
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I managed to get 9 kills in one life with the FAN today so maybe it's just my inconstant aim or maybe that server had tf_true on. Ok you guys persuaded me I upgraded my rating of the FAN in my original post :p.

I used the razorback some in a group situation today and I think it prevented some drive by stabbings, it won't when you are alone though, it's still underpowered. It needs the stat debuff removed, a more obvious noise for when it's been used and an icon or something to show it has so you know to get a new one. Personally I would not have given this to the sniper anyway spies are supposed to be his weakness. We wants a boomerang!

Don't know much about Sniper/Spy ones yet. :p Jarate was a boat of fun one night. I think it's because everyone was super tired. xD
But did you like it enough to buy a t-shirt of it bleck o_O X.X http://store.valvesoftware.com/tf2/tf2-tee.sniper.html
 
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I'm not going to type out a thesis, but here's my normal loadouts:

Medic - Blutslauger, Ubersaw, Medigun
Heavy - Sasha, shotgun, KGB
Pyro - Flamethrower, flaregun, Axetinguisher (mostly because the flaregun is fun, shotty's better in most cases)
Scout - FAN, Pistol, Sandman (I really do prefer the Scattergun, but I LOVE the Sandman and I need the FAN to give me some maneuverability back)
Sniper - Rifle, Jarate, Kukri (if you're using the SMG, you're doing it rong :p)
Spy - I don't have all the unlocks yet, so I can't speak to this, but I'll probably run the Ambassador exclusively
 
I don't have all the upgrades yet, but of the ones I've used, I always have the Medic gear equipped, the Heavy boxing gloves and the Pyro Axe.
 
The Flare Gun has been improved slightly

I apparently missed the memo but the flare gun now does mini-crits on burning targets. It's still not nearly as good as the shotgun but it's a bit more fun to mess around with now.

Also I got to playing with the bow and noticed part of reason arrows will go off at a weird angle sometimes (it's not all the reason I think though). You probably all know by now but apparently if you keep the bow taught the sniper will tire and start to shake. At that point it's useless to fire becuase the arrow goes off in a bizarre direction. I still think the bow is OP point blank (for what the sniper class is supposed to be) but now I think it needs an improvement mid-range as it's just to hard to hit targets. The new sniper crosshair has made mid range sniping with the sniper rifle easier too making the bow less useful.

I still find the Razorback, Cloak and Dagger and the Bugged and Nerfed Dead Ringer to be useless compared to the regular watch.

So my opinions on the other new stuff is...

Jarate: Good for what it does not for what it is. Not worth giving up the SMG if you are not going to be in the front lines or have spy problems. Technically the SMG is better at spy killing in some circumstances. Jarate is only good for hunting running spies down. Basically Jarate is good if you are in a group and the SMG is a solo weapon. I had a good moment with the Jarate yesterday though. At the beginning of the second stage of Goldrush I threw it on two medic and heavy pairs in one shot and a friendly pyro/medic came in at the same time. Mini crit death everywhere ^^.

The Ambassador: The best new weapon of the Sniper/Spy update. Now only if the hit detection actually worked on it all the time. Seriously it can't be lag becuase it misses counting headshots on stationary targets sometimes. BTW don't try for a headshot if you are on a step angle behind an enemy. Like the stab detection it seems to have problems on them :(.

The Huntsman: Needs improvement at mid range and needs a debuff at point blank. Yeah it's "neat" but that does not get the job done as well as the rifle can :/.
 
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I would presonaly like to see the default sniper rifle get a little more damage on the no scope, specially if you have the Jarate in use. It's taken me 3 or more confirmed hits on players just to take them down. I think that if you headshot no scope you should get a crit or mini crit damage.
 
I would personally like to see the default sniper rifle get a little more damage on the no scope, specially if you have the Jarate in use. It's taken me 3 or more confirmed hits on players just to take them down. I think that if you headshot no scope you should get a crit or mini crit damage.

I kind of think the opposite as I think snipers should be very weak short range. At the beginning I thought Valve purposely restrained the snipers abilities with the charge meter to prevent those pro "I can make a headshot with one hand tied behind my back" players from making TF2 frustrating. I've always thought of TF2 as more casual and team based than say Unreal. Although it seems kind of wrong spies can now snipe better in some situations than snipers. Every update has blurred the class lines more though so it's par for the course.

I do wonder if you could use the non-zoomed crosshairs to target an enemy then use a script to zoom, fire then unzoom in one button press hmmmm.
 
he's my point though, they gave the spy a no scope crit headshot, why would you handicap the actual class that should have it. it's like giving the pyro's flare gun a rocket splash damage. I just think that an extra to the jarate should be that noscope headshots no do crit damage.

good point though, I should see if I can find a script, maybe that'll calm my nerves. since I added a crosshair dot to my noscope that could prove useful.
 
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Jarate + noscope = kill in like 2 hits now on most classes. Wondered why the rifle never had a crosshair, seems a tad overpowered with it now.
 
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